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Archive 2013 · RhinoCam: 645 Medium Format back with Sony NEX body!

Jacob D
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · RhinoCam: 645 Medium Format back with Sony NEX body!

A friend just sent me a link to this... it's interesting. I'd love to give it a try for some urban work.

Mar 06, 2013 at 06:48 PM

RustyBug
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · RhinoCam: 645 Medium Format back with Sony NEX body!

Imo, noteworthy are:
200 APO
120/4 Macro
35/3.5 N
55 Shift

150/2.8A
80/4 Macro
80/1.9

"N" versions are preferable to "C" version with newer coatings
"A" versions are APO-lite if you will.

My bag is:

45/2.8 N
80/4 C Macro
110/2.8 N
150/2.8 A

Really kinda depends on what you are planning to shoot with it ... wide vs. tele, near vs. normal/distant. But, if you REALLY are only going to get ONE to shoot to stitch with ... hmmm.

Edited on Mar 06, 2013 at 07:06 PM · View previous versions

Mar 06, 2013 at 07:01 PM

jim bennett
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · RhinoCam: 645 Medium Format back with Sony NEX body!

Cant reach their website

Mar 06, 2013 at 07:05 PM

redisburning
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · RhinoCam: 645 Medium Format back with Sony NEX body!

my body is ready...

not sure whether I want the Pentax or 4x5 version... probably 4x5 lol

Mar 06, 2013 at 07:18 PM

mpmendenhall
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · RhinoCam: 645 Medium Format back with Sony NEX body!

RustyBug wrote:
Really kinda depends on what you are planning to shoot with it ... wide vs. tele, near vs. normal/distant. But, if you REALLY are only going to get ONE to shoot to stitch with ... hmmm.

If you were going to use this system for just one lens, I think that going with the widest angle (35/3.5) makes the most sense. Wide angle is where being able to directly visualize/compose the whole image on the focus screen would be most helpful. For long focal length / narrow field of view panoramas, there's less difference between panorama shooting with shift or rotation, and visualizing the final image "in your head" is easier without wide-angle perspective exaggeration.

Mar 06, 2013 at 07:48 PM

a.RodriguezPix
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · RhinoCam: 645 Medium Format back with Sony NEX body!

ignorance is bliss, so forgive me, but why is this truly needed? so we need to blow images to 10,0000% or is it to crop like the mad hatter? im new to Earth by the by. yes i know digi-medi formats are car priced, no not my 2010 corolla, but seriously why the need for supreme res? It delivers stunning 140+ megapixel images while offering photographers their choice of low-cost sensor options and classic lenses.

Mar 07, 2013 at 04:16 AM

carstenw
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · RhinoCam: 645 Medium Format back with Sony NEX body!

You get the digital medium/large format look without the expense. I think the resolution is less the point than the look.

Mar 07, 2013 at 04:29 AM

AhamB
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · RhinoCam: 645 Medium Format back with Sony NEX body!

a.RodriguezPix wrote:
ignorance is bliss, so forgive me, but why is this truly needed?

Because it works with stitching, there's no way to avoid the 140+mpix. Besides the high resolution, you get much shallower DOF and a look (the "medium format look") that is quite different from a fast lens on a smaller sensor.

Mar 07, 2013 at 06:44 AM

RustyBug
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · RhinoCam: 645 Medium Format back with Sony NEX body!

Well, I'd not say it is truly needed, but there are some reasons why it is desired ... which varies highly subjectively.

For me, part of the equation is that with MF glass, the transitions are smoother ("the look") than with the small format glass. Currently, using MF on FF is capturing about as much of the image circle projection as I can get. Despite this would be going to a smaller sensor, it will allow for an increased capture of the lens projection more fully.

The point that the lens will be remaining stationary then contends with some parallax issues/projection issues when you move the lens to a different position. Nodal point rotation can help with such issues, but not moving the lens at all will mitigate such things a bit more.

Obviously, this is not a "mainstream" endeavor for the masses ... and will have some limitations in application. But, this is the Alt Forum where people are interested in alternative (i.e. different) methods, approaches & outcomes. We never said it would be easier, more practical or better than another approach, but it is a plausible solution that can offset/liberate some hindrances that have been previously encountered.

Will it replace your "day to day" camera/approach ... not likely. Will it give an opportunity to expand your creative/alternative vision, or breathe a transformation into the potential for the smaller format platforms ... likely. That, imo, is what the buzz is about.

Mar 07, 2013 at 09:29 AM

redisburning
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · RhinoCam: 645 Medium Format back with Sony NEX body!

you can use relatively modest lenses to get really high resolution without sacrificing selective focus.

man I wish this thing came in Contax mount though.

Mar 07, 2013 at 09:37 AM

molson
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · RhinoCam: 645 Medium Format back with Sony NEX body!

a.RodriguezPix wrote:
ignorance is bliss, so forgive me, but why is this truly needed?

Apparently you haven't heard the old adage "if you can't make it good, make it big"...

Mar 07, 2013 at 01:12 PM

a.RodriguezPix
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · RhinoCam: 645 Medium Format back with Sony NEX body!

molson wrote:
Apparently you haven't heard the old adage "if you can't make it good, make it big"...

so that's where I've erred! Great, now I need to shot everything extremely large, so large, that my poor skills will diminish!

Mar 07, 2013 at 01:37 PM

a.RodriguezPix
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · RhinoCam: 645 Medium Format back with Sony NEX body!

redisburning wrote:
my body is ready...

That's what she said...Sorry!

not sure whether I want the Pentax or 4x5 version... probably 4x5 lol

Mar 07, 2013 at 01:37 PM

jcolwell
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · RhinoCam: 645 Medium Format back with Sony NEX body!

john_edwards wrote:
So if you go with the Mamiya 645 which focal length (I know you can use any of them, but lets say you only want one). Also I guess you would stay away from a focal plane shutter?? Yes/ no, opinions please.
Thanks, John

Hi John,

I think you meant to say "stay away from leaf shutters". I agree with that. The focal plane shutter is in the camera (if it has one), at the focal plane.

Like many previous posters, especially Michael and Kent, I really like the Mamiya M645 lenses. Here's what's in my lens case.

Mamiya-Sekor C 35/3.5 N
Mamiya-Sekor C 55/2.8 N
Mamiya-Sekor C 80/2.8
Mamiya-Sekor C 80/2.8 N
Mamiya-Sekor C 80/4 N Macro
Mamiya A 120/4 Macro
Mamiya A 150/2.8
Mamiya A 200/2.8 APO

They're all excellent lenses. The 'A' series lenses are fantastic; they're at least as good as the best "35mm" format lenses from Canon, Leica, and Zeiss.

I normally use the 35/3.5 N, 55/2.8 N, 80/2.8 N, and A 150/2.8 with a Mirex Tilt-Shift adapter. I generally use the macros and A 200/2.8 APO 'straight up' with Fotodiox Pro adapters. As Michael mentioned earlier, it would be nice if the A 200/2.8 APO had a tripod mount collar. I have a Hejnar long lens support strut + 90 deg block for use with the APO on a tripod, as shown in the attached photo.

I probably won't buy a RhinoCam, unless they do release an X-mount camera version, and even then it's not very likely. I'm pretty well set for making panoramas, often with M645 lenses and shift on the Mirex for one direction, and changes in elevation or azimuth for the other direction, if it's a two-direction pano. OTOH, as mentioned by Kent, having the lens fixed in space and the camera moving around behind it does remove parallax problems, especially with subject matter in both the near field and in the far field. I sometimes move the camera on the tripod head to compensate for shift movement, when I'm using lateral shift.

Mamiya M645 A 200/2.8 APO with hood extension on Hejnar long lens support

Mar 07, 2013 at 03:07 PM

eddyboy
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · RhinoCam: 645 Medium Format back with Sony NEX body!

What's the point of using medium format lenses?

Mar 09, 2013 at 07:30 PM

mpmendenhall
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · RhinoCam: 645 Medium Format back with Sony NEX body!

eddyboy wrote:
What's the point of using medium format lenses?

Generally, the same point to using any lens: it projects an image on the sensor in a way you like.

Some specific advantages to medium format lenses come from their design to project a larger image circle from a longer flange distance: they can be attached to 35mm-format cameras with tilt/shift adapters (for perspective and focal plane control unavailable with a fixed lens). In addition, the optical design for a larger image circle pretty much guarantees that the lenses won't show any rapid image quality degradation towards the corners, that 35mm designs are often prone to.

Furthermore, some MF lenses are very good optically --- the Mamiya 200/2.8 APO, for example, is just plain excellent, and hard to beat at anywhere near the price. Since these were often rather expensive, high-end lenses when new (though available cheap now), mechanical build quality is usually quite high. Some lenses may have capabilities/properties with no 35mm equivalent (e.g. the Zeiss/Hasselblad Superachromats), or simply offer a distinctive "look" that a photographer wants.

Mar 09, 2013 at 07:49 PM

sebboh
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · RhinoCam: 645 Medium Format back with Sony NEX body!

eddyboy wrote:
What's the point of using medium format lenses?

also, in this case it allows you to view the final stitch framing prior to shooting, which can't be done in normal stitching with lens that matches the cameras sensor size.

Mar 09, 2013 at 07:52 PM

Matt Grum
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · RhinoCam: 645 Medium Format back with Sony NEX body!

AhamB wrote:
Besides the high resolution, you get much shallower DOF and a look (the "medium format look") that is quite different from a fast lens on a smaller sensor.

Do you get shallower depth of field though? It seems to me that that is only the case with some rare and hard to find medium format lenses. Most MF lenses seem to be about 2 stops slower than the equivalent FOV 35mm SLR lens. Consider the Mamiya 645 lenses mentioned so far in this thread, there's only one faster than f/2.8 - the 80mm f/1.9

Now the diagonal for 645 film is about 1.6 times larger than 135, so the 80mm f/1.9 has the same field of view and same depth of field (by virtue of having the same entrance pupil size) as a 50mm f/1.2 lens for the 35mm system. So there's no depth of field advantage with that lens.

Mar 11, 2013 at 09:33 AM

mpmendenhall
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · RhinoCam: 645 Medium Format back with Sony NEX body!

Matt Grum wrote:
Do you get shallower depth of field though? It seems to me that that is only the case with some rare and hard to find medium format lenses. Most MF lenses seem to be about 2 stops slower than the equivalent FOV 35mm SLR lens. Consider the Mamiya 645 lenses mentioned so far in this thread, there's only one faster than f/2.8 - the 80mm f/1.9

Now the diagonal for 645 film is about 1.6 times larger than 135, so the 80mm f/1.9 has the same field of view and same depth of field (by virtue of having the same...Show more →

The difference is that it's easier to design a sharp/clear/contrasty f1.9 lens that captures lots of detail on a 645 frame, than an f1.2 lens that squeezes the same amount of information into a 35mm frame. Super-fast lenses on 35mm typically have a distinctive "look" at wide apertures: high vignetting, low contrast, soft corners, etc. Now, consider how much better a lens typically is at ~f2 than ~f1.2, then improve the output image more by capturing over a whole 645 instead of 35mm: you get both super-thin DOF, and an extremely clean/sharp/detailed look not possible from the most expensive 35mm-format f1.2 lenses.

Mar 11, 2013 at 09:50 AM

douglasf13
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · RhinoCam: 645 Medium Format back with Sony NEX body!

mpmendenhall wrote:
The difference is that it's easier to design a sharp/clear/contrasty f1.9 lens that captures lots of detail on a 645 frame, than an f1.2 lens that squeezes the same amount of information into a 35mm frame. Super-fast lenses on 35mm typically have a distinctive "look" at wide apertures: high vignetting, low contrast, soft corners, etc. Now, consider how much better a lens typically is at ~f2 than ~f1.2, then improve the output image more by capturing over a whole 645 instead of 35mm: you get both super-thin DOF, and an extremely clean/sharp/detailed look not possible from the most expensive 35mm-format...Show more →

I don't know, the Voigtlander 35/1.2 is pretty good wide open, and the Mamiya 80/1.9 isn't particularly great at the edges on 35mm wide open, either, let alone on 645. I'm not sure that it's any more difficult to build a f1.2 lens for 35mm than it is to build a f1.9 lens for 645, is it?

Mar 11, 2013 at 11:41 AM

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