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Dot-Tune: Autofocus Fine Tuning in under 5 minutes

Zenon Char
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p.38 #1 · p.38 #1 · Dot-Tune: Autofocus Fine Tuning in under 5 minutes

Now I'm confused. That link makes a reference to the 7D2. The 7D2 does not even offer Dual Pixel RAW. I guess PDAF is a separate function we can't turn off or on I was not aware off?

Oct 09, 2017 at 09:48 AM

Zenon Char
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p.38 #2 · p.38 #2 · Dot-Tune: Autofocus Fine Tuning in under 5 minutes

Well you learn something everyday. I have never worn out the video button on my cameras as I never use it and I rarely use LV.

https://photographylife.com/what-is-dual-pixel-raw-in-the-canon-5d-mark-iv

This is all new to me but it seams you just MFA the traditional way for back or front focus. PDAF just uses two readings to fine tune while in video mode or tracking subjects in LV. I realize I could be wrong.

Oct 09, 2017 at 10:01 AM

Zenon Char
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p.38 #3 · p.38 #3 · Dot-Tune: Autofocus Fine Tuning in under 5 minutes

gschlact wrote:
In reading the article, it says that DPAF uses Phase Detect AF.
The feature you mention for post processing focus adjustment with the huge files I thought was called something else?
So the question I ask boils down to... If DPAF=PDAF
a) how do we get Contrast Detect AF in Live View instead of the dpaf/PDAF?
b) is dpaf PDAF different from the focus screen for non live view?

Contrast Detect af is used in dot tune to establish the proper AF prior to turning af on the lens to manual to start start tuning of MFA values.

Yes it says PDAF uses phase detect in LV tracking subject and for video. I think that if you want to be in Contrast Detect you need to be in one shot. If you are tracking someone then you are in AI Servo and I guess this is the tracking part.

I don't know about part B. Does PDAF only apply to LV when in AI Servo and video or also for one shot phase detect as well?

As I stated on my other 2 posts, I think you can only MFA the traditional way which is for phase detect. If LV or video utilizes phase detect it must use the MFA values entered. You would think that Canon would have thought of that otherwise a lens and mirror assembly needing +-12 wouldn't be sharp.

Maybe someone who knows more about this will help out.

Oct 09, 2017 at 10:27 AM

Zenon Char
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p.38 #4 · p.38 #4 · Dot-Tune: Autofocus Fine Tuning in under 5 minutes

Forgot to mention that Dot Tune starts out using LV for contrast detect AF accuracy or you can also use manual focus if you want to. Then you take it out of LV and which uses phase detect to tune MFA values.

Oct 09, 2017 at 10:42 AM

Zenon Char
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p.38 #5 · p.38 #5 · Dot-Tune: Autofocus Fine Tuning in under 5 minutes

In the Go Live section of the document it does not distinguish between One Shot or AI Servo. Seems like it uses both contrast and phase detect when in LV. Contrast is accurate. Phase is the one that can be out. I think a few ticks off centre is OK but like I said if out 12 one way or the other there may be issues. Not sure but logic says if the two are competing that much it would show unless Canon uses contrast as the primary and phase as a confirmation only. Same as flash. While the Canon system gathers distance information it is a reference it always goes by the pre-flash information regardless of what distance info it gets. I don't know about contrast ads phase.

I also think that if there was something we needed to know Canon would have said so. There have been no updates to MFA procedures since the release of PDAF.

Thanks for brining this up. Interesting.

Oct 09, 2017 at 11:05 AM

Zenon Char
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p.38 #6 · p.38 #6 · Dot-Tune: Autofocus Fine Tuning in under 5 minutes

I was wondering about the mirror. How does phase work without it and I figured there must another smaller mirror or something. Still have not found out expect for this.

But if there’s one phrase that sums up the evolution of the EOS 70D – it’s “Dual Pixel CMOS AF”. It sounds like rocket science, but it is really simple to explain. DSLR cameras focus use phase detection to quickly achieve focus using a beam splitter through a reflex mirror. In Live View or movie recording mode, the mirror is flipped up and the autofocus switches to a hybrid of phase detection and contrast detection. Because of the small number of sensor pixels for detect contrast detection, such hybrid AF usually lag behind pure phase detection AF.

https://petapixel.com/2013/10/28/review-canon-eos-70d-sets-phase-detection-stun/

So outside of the normal phase detection MFA I have not heard of any method to MFA this hybrid system. Contrast detect is pretty basic but what does it use for phase detect when there is no mirror and why is it more accurate than the standard phase detect method. I'm assuming it is more accurate.

Oct 09, 2017 at 01:57 PM

Zenon Char
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p.38 #7 · p.38 #7 · Dot-Tune: Autofocus Fine Tuning in under 5 minutes

Both the last post and this one are for the 70D. I don't know if Canon changed anything with the newer releases regarding this.

Note, though, that I said phase detect operation, as that's only part of the process the EOS 70D uses in live view AF, at least for still-image focusing. Part of the reason the 70D's Dual Pixel AF isn't as fast as the conventional separate-sensor approach is that the 70D only uses Dual Pixel technology to achieve rough, initial focus; it then switches to contrast-detect focusing to check focus accuracy and, if necessary, fine-tune focus.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2014/02/27/canon-dual-pixel-cmos-af-autofocus-secrets-of-the-canon-70d-explained

Oct 09, 2017 at 02:08 PM

Dianalynn
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p.38 #8 · p.38 #8 · Dot-Tune: Autofocus Fine Tuning in under 5 minutes

Worked for me on my older 100-400,after getting a 7d2 and noticing off shots. -8 Thank you.

Jan 23, 2019 at 03:44 PM

Casuario
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p.38 #9 · p.38 #9 · Dot-Tune: Autofocus Fine Tuning in under 5 minutes

Hi. Dot-Tune works nice. The key for me is to take a picture each time I manually focus (Live View), so that each result (interval) is accompanied by the photo that goes with it. I like to use 2 intervals for each Fine Tune value (I keep focusing/testing until I get two intervals where the middle value is "0", two intervals where it's "+1", etc). I use a D7000 and I knew that the correct value was around 0 (Dot-Tune will tell you the truth, don't worry). But doing real world shots is not enough and I felt I was driving insane. So, Dot-Tune it is. Be sure to do your best when focusing (or just use LV AF and check how it looks) until you get several values. Then, if you took some pictures, use them to compare the different results. Then you can know which value is the absolute best. Some lenses might need more than 1 value, idk. I tested at 50x distance. Thanks OP!

May 08, 2023 at 07:30 PM

Imagemaster
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p.38 #10 · p.38 #10 · Dot-Tune: Autofocus Fine Tuning in under 5 minutes

Good for you, considering you are bumping a thread that is over four years old and not relevant to mirrorless cameras.

May 08, 2023 at 09:02 PM

juststeve
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p.38 #11 · p.38 #11 · Dot-Tune: Autofocus Fine Tuning in under 5 minutes

Did not realize the forum was now FredMirandaMirrorlessOnly. I would not be surprised if there were still more DSLR's out there in regular use than there are mirrorless cameras.

I still have a 5DS in occasional use and it is always nearby for backup. I will probably keep that camera 'til the end of time, as I will several EF lenses. Guessing there are more than a few doing the same, both Canon and Nikon users. Refreshing memories of the Dot Tune method is useful for at least some.

May 13, 2023 at 09:02 AM

Gochugogi
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p.38 #12 · p.38 #12 · Dot-Tune: Autofocus Fine Tuning in under 5 minutes

juststeve wrote:
Did not realize the forum was now FredMirandaMirrorlessOnly. I would not be surprised if there were still more DSLR's out there in regular use than there are mirrorless cameras.

Every aspect of DSLRs was well discussed here for a couple decades. We beat that dead horse and good. I still have several SLR and DSLRs collecting dusting after acquiring R series cameras a couple years back. Mainly new gear gets discussed here. Not much more to say about DSLRs unless Canon releases a new model, and that is unlikely unless they have a massive glut of spare Rebel parts. Maybe a Rebel SL3 special edition in metal flake silver with video conferencing adapter and ring light?

We have an active old skool DSLR thread for those reminiscing about images and gear from yesteryear. I just posted there:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1800024/

May 13, 2023 at 03:33 PM

EB-1
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p.38 #13 · p.38 #13 · Dot-Tune: Autofocus Fine Tuning in under 5 minutes

Old school? It's not like DSLRs are archaic; it's only been a handful of years since Nikon and Canon have used them as a standard and there are far more DSLRs out there than the MILS. Many people enjoy using an optical viewfinder.

I don't use Dot-tune because I have a LensAlign. I don't miss the necessity of AF calibration, but I do miss the ability to deliberately change the AF ± focus zone (missing in a MILS) as is possible with an SLR.

EBH

May 13, 2023 at 03:48 PM

AmbientMike
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p.38 #14 · p.38 #14 · Dot-Tune: Autofocus Fine Tuning in under 5 minutes

Casuario wrote:
Hi. Dot-Tune works nice. The key for me is to take a picture each time I manually focus (Live View), so that each result (interval) is accompanied by the photo that goes with it. I like to use 2 intervals for each Fine Tune value (I keep focusing/testing until I get two intervals where the middle value is "0", two intervals where it's "+1", etc). I use a D7000 and I knew that the correct value was around 0 (Dot-Tune will tell you the truth, don't worry). But doing real world shots is not enough and I felt I was...Show more →

Welcome! Yes this is the Canon board, and that includes DSLR's. Still using DSLR myself, ask any questions you like

May 13, 2023 at 04:01 PM

Gochugogi
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p.38 #15 · p.38 #15 · Dot-Tune: Autofocus Fine Tuning in under 5 minutes

EB-1 wrote:
Old school? It's not like DSLRs are archaic; it's only been a handful of years since Nikon and Canon have used them as a standard and there are far more DSLRs out there than the MILS. Many people enjoy using an optical viewfinder.

EBH

Haha, I didn't name the thread but it's called the "Old School Canon DSLR Image Thread." I've posted there a bunch of times. Love dragging out the old goodies from yesteryear! I even posted film scans dating back to Neolithic times...

May 13, 2023 at 05:01 PM

juststeve
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p.38 #16 · p.38 #16 · Dot-Tune: Autofocus Fine Tuning in under 5 minutes

This morning I was out checking on a couple of wildlife photo subjects.

Saw a small group of migrating warblers. Was not sure of the identification at first. They were spooky. I could not get within 40 feet of them unless they were deep among the willows, and then I could barely see them. My cameras were the R3 and R5; the lenses were the 100-500 and 1.4 and the 24-105/4.

I had a very difficult time picking up those tiny birds amongst the flowering pussy willows. I did not get single photo worth a damn. It was simply impossible for me to pick up one of those warblers amidst that jungle in time to get focus and trigger the shot. I needed a couple of seconds to pull that one off and got a second and a half.

I feel a DSLR would have given me a slight uptick in success. The optical finder is a bit more forgiving in my eyes. Yes, the mirrorless cameras have greatly appreciated advantage in focus precision, and often quickness, but often target acquisition suffers, particularly in complex, dense, confusing situations.

My DSLR was with me, sort of. A mile hike back, along with my 100-4004.5-5.6 ii and 1.4x iii converter. Most times I do not carry all that I can carry. Old bones hurt at the end of the day. But this day a DSLR might well have been the better selection. If I had known.

There are times when I realize my DSLR and appropriate lenses would be the better choice. For others, perhaps they do not "need" the latest and greatest and are perfectly happy to get photographs which will be unidentifiable on nearly any platform, the web to a gallery. To heck with mirrorless, DSLR, brand, format. Unidentifiable.

Get, make the photograph. Use the tools you have, the tools you prefer, and, most importantly, the tools which best suit the job. And most importantly, guess right.

Let us not say this forum is for only the latest and greatest and the not yet actually available. Making photographs can be a Z8 with a 400/4.5 unavailable or an R5ii and 100-300/2.8 which have not seen the light of day, and those make great subjects for wasting a lot of internet band width. Would not it be nice if as much time were spent on actually making a photograph.

May 13, 2023 at 08:28 PM

TeamSpeed
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p.38 #17 · p.38 #17 · Dot-Tune: Autofocus Fine Tuning in under 5 minutes

Again what does this have to do with dot tune or even AFMA? If one wants to talk about the virtues of DSLRs over mirrorless, there is a very recent thread for that. Or even make a new one called Mirror Box Anonymous, and we all can say the same things in that thread too.

May 14, 2023 at 03:57 AM

Zenon Char
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p.38 #18 · p.38 #18 · Dot-Tune: Autofocus Fine Tuning in under 5 minutes

I tried it and it worked well. It has been so many years since I used it. Always the distance issue. The last I remember snapsy was using shingles on rooftops. Living in windy province I got mixed results and as in any method I never trusted my own results. Others do just fine with. I wanted something to tell me what values to use so I wound up getting FoCal.

When I was using FoCal I purchased two daylight balanced studio CFL's to light my target and I figure people thought I was nuts. While CFL's flicker, studio and others you can buy flicker so fast the human eye and camera can't see it.

I've always hated MFA. When it came out everyone had their soup. Nothing wrong with that. I'm just one that likes Canon engineers to give me their can of soup. Some documents said (including Canon) 50X. Others (including Canon) the distance you normally shoot at or at location. All mixed up. Later I found this which is IMO is the most comprehensive document ever released. It covers everything - including the light source.

Page 5

https://support.usa.canon.com/resources/sites/CANON/content/live/ARTICLES/175000/ART175504/en_US/AF_MicroAdjustGuide_desktop.pdf

May 14, 2023 at 09:52 AM

Zenon Char
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p.38 #19 · p.38 #19 · Dot-Tune: Autofocus Fine Tuning in under 5 minutes

I may tick someone off. When MFA first came out it was suggested to print out scale and out it on a 45 degree angle. My very first thought was thousands of dollars of precision equipment and I'm supposed to do that?

I have to say the 3 battery misaligned method is pretty good. At least the target is somewhat parallel to the sensor. It gives a good quick visual. At one time Canon's DPP had a feature where you could take some shots of a bill taped to a wall and then toggle through them. They dropped that in future updates.

When I got my R I was so elated that I didn't have to MFA.

May 14, 2023 at 10:05 AM

Zenon Char
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p.38 #20 · p.38 #20 · Dot-Tune: Autofocus Fine Tuning in under 5 minutes

I forgot to say. Anyone remember Liquidstone? Romy Ocon. Haven't seen a post in long time. I thought of him as the stack master. He inspired me to get my first moon shots. I just had the 300 F4 IS back then. I already had the Canon 2X and I picked up a Sigma 2X for that purpose.

I contacted him a few times about MFA based on what I read here where he did post. He MFA'd and minimal focusing distance. He told me it was harder to do but the results were more precise.

Thanks Romy!

May 23, 2023 at 10:49 AM

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