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Archive 2012 · D5100 for IR Conversion?

neuf_owner
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · D5100 for IR Conversion?

I assume several have probably done an IR conversion of their D5100. The used ones are getting cheap enough to consider this as a good entry level IR camera. I was curious what thoughts actual users might have on this? Is the D5100 good for an IR conversion? Is another camera better (with a like price)? I have several Nikon and Sigma Nikon mount lenses so basic lens needs would be covered. I am really looking for a way to get my feet wet in this area. I appreciate any input IR shooters might have on this.

Thanks,
Gene

Dec 26, 2012 at 12:16 AM

monochrome
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · D5100 for IR Conversion?

Just a note from Lifepixel on using newer Nikon bodies for conversation.

*² - Nikon D60, D90, D300, D300s, D700, D3000, D3100, D5000, D5100, D7000 - These models are random, some will white balance all filters some not at all but most just won't white balance with our Super Color & Enhanced filters. Will need to shoot in RAW and use Nikon Capture NX2 software to set the white balance.

This is why I bought a used D200 to convert. Hope this information helps. Or maybe some have more to offer.

Dec 26, 2012 at 08:56 PM

Javier Munoz
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · D5100 for IR Conversion?

Advice 1: get a cheap P&S converted in ebay and check if IR is your thing. Many times the awe for IR fades out quick.

Advice 2: would be to get a cheap mirrorless system and convert it. AF work perfectly for every lens without tweaking and is faster. Samsung had a pretty good deal not too long ago with the NX1000 and a few (pretty good for the size and prize) lenses. I also got a Olympus EPl1 some time ago and it was pretty good too. Samsung UWA only lens is not good for IR though. Olympus 9-18 is good. DR is not an issue in IR so you can live with a mirrorless camera. With the D5100 you have to live view focus and I find live view in DSLR rather cumbersome.

Advice 3: I would consider a full spectrum conversion so you can use IR with filters and normal photography at the same time (also with the right UV/IR filter like those of Kolari Vision or MaxMax). Again, mirrorless systems are better because filter size is smaller (hence cheaper).

Advice 4: check Kolari Vision lens database to check with lenses are good for IR

Hope it helps

Dec 27, 2012 at 12:11 PM

neuf_owner
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · D5100 for IR Conversion?

Thanks, I have been all over the Lifepixel site and I did see the white balance warning. I already shoot RAW normally on the 800E. I was really looking for hands on experience. Do you like the D200 images and live view focus? Which conversion did you do?

Thanks,

Dec 27, 2012 at 11:38 PM

neuf_owner
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · D5100 for IR Conversion?

Advice 1: get a cheap P&S converted in ebay and check if IR is your thing. Many times the awe for IR fades out quick.

Actually that is why I was thinking about the D5100, given the low used prices. Since I already have several Nikon lenses, I would not need to purchase additional.

Advice 2: would be to get a cheap mirrorless system and convert it. AF work perfectly for every lens without tweaking and is faster. Samsung had a pretty good deal not too long ago with the NX1000 and a few (pretty good for the size and prize) lenses. I also got a Olympus EPl1 some time ago and it was pretty good too. Samsung UWA only lens is not good for IR though. Olympus 9-18 is good. DR is not an issue in IR so you can live with a mirrorless camera. With the D5100 you have to live view focus and I find live view in DSLR rather cumbersome.

Actually this was my other choice. I was also considering a Sony NEX-5N with a kit lens. Close to the same price. Curious why DR is not an issue with IR. My understanding is that you are shooting mostly with midday sun. Wouldn't good DR be helpful with that? I appreciate the insight. This is the type of think I really wanted to know.

Advice 3: I would consider a full spectrum conversion so you can use IR with filters and normal photography at the same time (also with the right UV/IR filter like those of Kolari Vision or MaxMax). Again, mirrorless systems are better because filter size is smaller (hence cheaper).

I have a good DSLR for normal photography so I am really looking for a dedicated IR camera. Considering the Super Color IR from Lifepixel.

Advice 4: check Kolari Vision lens database to check with lenses are good for IR

Yes, good advice and I have done some checking for lens hotspots.

Looking for "hands-on" advice so this is great info. Thanks!!!

Gene

Dec 27, 2012 at 11:39 PM

Javier Munoz
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · D5100 for IR Conversion?

neuf_owner wrote:
Curious why DR is not an issue with IR. My understanding is that you are shooting mostly with midday sun. Wouldn't good DR be helpful with that? I appreciate the insight. This is the type of think I really wanted to know.

With an IR camera, the sky is dark because it absorbs infrared (sensor treats it as dark gray), hence you dont have blown highlights in the sky in midday sun. When you have your IR camera, take a picture with your regular camera and the converted one and you will see how the histogram is quite compressed in the IR. Another perk of infrared is that if you are in deep forests with little light you dont have to push the exposure that much because the leafs reflects infrared and the sensor treat them as light gray instead of dark green.

Another tip, look for skies with clouds, they make better pictures. Although I must say that clear skies give a nice abstract, almost surrealistic feel when you take the picture of an object in isolation against the ski

Shoot raw so you can change white balance in lightroom or CS6. I usually leave the picture setting in camera in Monochrome so I can have an idea on how the black and white will look (you can do that while shooting in Raw in most of the cameras, I guess that D5100 has a monochrome picture mode too)

Dec 28, 2012 at 12:57 PM

Kerry Pierce
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · D5100 for IR Conversion?

Hi Gene,

I recently bought a d5100 for conversion to IR. I'll probably use LifePixel for the conversion. I haven't decided whether to do the standard or deep B&W conversion.

At first, I was put off by the reported WB issues, but my last IR conversion (a Sony digicam) didn't do a proper WB either. In fact, I just used the auto WB and I never had any problems with the photos when converting to B&W. I even did some false color with it, but I prefer the B&W IR. So, I don't think the d5100 will be a bad conversion. But, maybe I'm too stupid to understand the benefits of precise WB on an IR camera.

I'm also probably going to do a 2nd camera with their super color conversion. But, I want to see how the d5100 works out for me. I'm having issues with the ergos and menu diving when using the d5100, so I think the next body I convert will be the d7000.

good luck
Kerry

Dec 28, 2012 at 05:29 PM

neuf_owner
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · D5100 for IR Conversion?

Great information, Thanks Javier.

Kerry, curious why you are thinking of the D5100 vs the Sony that you already have. I did consider the D7000, however I think that the movable screen on the 5100 would be helpful vs the 7000.

I appreciate everyone's input.

Gene

Dec 28, 2012 at 08:58 PM

monochrome
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · D5100 for IR Conversion?

Javier Munoz wrote:
Shoot raw so you can change white balance in lightroom or CS6. I usually leave the picture setting in camera in Monochrome so I can have an idea on how the black and white will look (you can do that while shooting in Raw in most of the cameras, I guess that D5100 has a monochrome picture mode too)

With a D5100 white balance adjustment is limited with the type of conversion made. Depending which conversion done, you need to use Capture NX2, this goes for most Nikons built since the D200.

Dec 28, 2012 at 10:07 PM

Kerry Pierce
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · D5100 for IR Conversion?

neuf_owner wrote:
Kerry, curious why you are thinking of the D5100 vs the Sony that you already have. I did consider the D7000, however I think that the movable screen on the 5100 would be helpful vs the 7000.

Gene

Hi Gene, my Sony is about 10 yrs old, 5mp, and has noise issues that get very ugly if pushed too far in post. That means that post processing options are fairly limited. The lens will also display a hot spot under certain circumstances. Lastly, the AF isn't so good for moving subjects. While most of my IR is of static scenes, I also like using moving elements in the scene, like birds and other animals mainly.

Seemed to me that the relatively clean 16mp files from the d5100 or d7k would be a big improvement and should allow for some high ISO shots with corresponding high SS for stop action and eliminating camera shake. I'm becoming rather enamored with the movable screen and would like to see it on some other bodies. Having interchangeable lenses is a bonus for IR, IMO. Perhaps I'll convert a d700 some day, but such a high performance body isn't really necessary.

Hope that answers your questions. If not, feel free to ask more. I'm no IR expert, but I love good IR and have lots of stuff going back to the early 70's when B&W and color IR film were easily available.

Kerry

Dec 29, 2012 at 12:09 PM

Kerry Pierce
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · D5100 for IR Conversion?

neuf_owner wrote:
Curious why DR is not an issue with IR. My understanding is that you are shooting mostly with midday sun. Wouldn't good DR be helpful with that? I appreciate the insight. This is the type of think I really wanted to know.

I'm not sure that it's possible to not blow out leaves in a bright sunlight day, even with the better DR of some of today's cameras. Seems to me that a typical high noon shot of deciduous trees and lush green grass will be beyond the DR of even the d800 or d4. But, I could be wrong about that. It's not something that I worried about much.

monochrome wrote:
With a D5100 white balance adjustment is limited with the type of conversion made. Depending which conversion done, you need to use Capture NX2, this goes for most Nikons built since the D200.

Could you expound on this a bit? I'm not understanding what you're saying here. Seems to me that WB changes are limited, no matter the converter.

thanks
Kerry

Dec 29, 2012 at 12:16 PM

monochrome
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · D5100 for IR Conversion?

Kerry, if you look at the second post in this thread. I quoted information from LifePixel website. And to be honest, they are better to explain than I.

I have two friends that converted Nikon D90's and they both talk about the extra steps taken to get the white balance correct before open in Photoshop to mix color channels.

Dec 29, 2012 at 02:26 PM

Kerry Pierce
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · D5100 for IR Conversion?

monochrome wrote:
Kerry, if you look at the second post in this thread. I quoted information from LifePixel website. And to be honest, they are better to explain than I.

I have two friends that converted Nikon D90's and they both talk about the extra steps taken to get the white balance correct before open in Photoshop to mix color channels.

Ah, okay, I think that I understand better now, especially with the context of false color IR. I'll go back to Lifepixel and see what they've got to say on the issue.

thanks
Kerry

Dec 29, 2012 at 08:33 PM

euua
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · D5100 for IR Conversion?

was in your shoes with D70 some time ago. What I did first was Advice above - taht worked well for me. So I said to myself - lets try this one more time before taking plunge since this will be permanent move. Purchased Hoya R72 IR filter in my lens filter size just too see if I am still ok with IR. Few weeks later I did not convert my D70. Reason very simple - gets repetitive with somewhat limited use, need good condition to do IR, needed lots post after shoots were taken

At the end I have IR filter for when I need it and regular camera as well.

Dec 30, 2012 at 03:59 PM

bellyface
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · D5100 for IR Conversion?

D200 is a fabulous body for IR. keep in mind, D200 is a CCD. Same deal with d40, d50, d70, d80. I have noticed that CMOS nikon bodies just don't have that "oomph!" IR factor than the bodies with CCD imagers. I have some images I can share if interested.

Dec 30, 2012 at 05:02 PM

neuf_owner
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · D5100 for IR Conversion?

So you would recommend the D200? Your experience is that the older tech is better in this instance? How is focusing with live view? That is probably my biggest concern. I appreciate your feedback.

Thanks,
Gene

Dec 30, 2012 at 10:54 PM

Mark Price
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · D5100 for IR Conversion?

I'll chime in with my experiences.

My first IR-converted camera was a D70. I really liked it, but eventually sold it because I didn't use it much. It had the standard IR conversion from Lifepixel, but I found that I typically converted my shots to B&W. Anyway, I sold it.

About a year later, I picked up an IR-converted D50. I kept this one for a while, but again sold it due to lack of use.

Both of these cameras performed extremely well and produced particularly sharp images - especially when coupled with either my (former) 28-70 or (current) 24-70. I found the 18-70 to produce a faint hotspot, so I ditched it in favor of the better lenses. For WB adjustment, I'd simply take a photo of a patch of green grass and use it as the benchmark for custom WB adjustment. It's really that simple.

A few months ago, I traded my D7000 for an IR-converted D200 and a Tamron 90 macro. The D200 was converted for me to my specifications - with the deep B&W conversion. I've only used it a couple times, but I much prefer it to my previous IR cameras. I also own a number of Ai'd "K" lenses, and among them is the 28 3.5. This is the best manual lens I've ever used on an IR camera, and I'd suggest that you (or anyone with an IR-converted camera) should pick one up, as they're relatively cheap.

All in all, I'd suggest you go with a D70 or D200 for IR conversion. All perform flawlessly when coupled with the right lens, and all are now fairly inexpensive. Of the two, the D200 is the only one that can meter Ai, Ai-S, or Ai'd lenses - although it tends to underexpose a bit. If you have no intention of shooting manual lenses with the camera, I'd suggest going with the D70/D70s. Don't let the lower pixel count scare you. I've got a pair of 16x20 shots hanging in my office that were taken with my old D70IR. Here's one of them...

Dec 31, 2012 at 12:43 AM

neuf_owner
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · D5100 for IR Conversion?

Great info, thanks. Did you have lifepixel adjust focus for your particular lenses or do you just use an alternate focus setting on the lens.

Thanks,
Gene

Dec 31, 2012 at 04:41 PM

neuf_owner
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · D5100 for IR Conversion?

I really like the windmill picture by the way. This is the type of capture I would like to do as well.

Thanks,
Gene

Dec 31, 2012 at 04:42 PM

Mark Price
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · D5100 for IR Conversion?

Thanks. It was just a random shot that turned out well. It looks much better printed.

I didn't have Lifepixel adjust anything. Their standard installation is designed to work with the 18-70, and I've found that any lens in that range (and slightly outside of it) works well with regards to focus accuracy.

Dec 31, 2012 at 07:45 PM

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