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Archive 2012 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)

Mescalamba
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p.5 #1 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)

Rokinon/Samyang etc. has really good color transfer curve, much better than most lens. But result of that is, that this lens pretty much doesnt have any "own" color.

Our lens with "own" color have these colors pretty much cause they have defficiency in some part of color specter or they shift colors towards warmer/cooler tones (Leica/Zeiss).

That said I would take Samyang over most generic lens from Canon, Nikon, Sony. But not over Zeiss or Leica (or Minolta).

As for Carsten, this lens simply doesnt work for me. Its nice, IQ is crazy good for that price (well, for almost any price), but its "sterile" beauty.

My original response was more about "I would take something completely different for portraits" or in this focal range. Probably R 90/2 or 90/2.8. Or maybe something else..

Voigtlaender is option for me too, they have nice light "touch" in their lens.

Edit: Yea and theres Olympus too. Kinda have soft spot for their OM lens.

Dec 15, 2012 at 05:58 PM

cogitech
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p.5 #2 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)

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Edited on Dec 16, 2012 at 05:01 AM · View previous versions

Dec 15, 2012 at 06:00 PM

carstenw
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p.5 #3 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)

I now have a ZF.2 85/1.4, which I love. I haven't used it for portraits personally yet, but I have seen portraits with it that are just stunning, not only good portraits, but the lens character shows through.

Yet, this is a lens which I will readily admit is deeply flawed. Lots of CA, field curvature, focus shift, you name it, this lens has yet. But I love it.

I am much more tolerant about lens flaws now, in some ways, at least for certain types of lenses, than I used to be, but if I am to keep a lens, it must have *something* that I love in its rendering. Or I must need it for something. Otherwise it goes.

Dec 15, 2012 at 06:09 PM

wfrank
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p.5 #4 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)

Did not vote as I have 0 experience of the Canon FD.

carstenw wrote:
Yet, this is a lens which I will readily admit is deeply flawed. Lots of CA, field curvature, focus shift, you name it, this lens has yet. But I love it.

I dont see those things, probably lack of fidelity but I dont care too much. I have the CY version which I use far too little, the CY 100/2 gets mounted when semi-tele is in the need. Here are some CY 85/1.4 shots.

IMG_0558 1280 by Wilhelm Frank - Stockholm, on Flickr

IMG_0568 1280 by Wilhelm Frank - Stockholm, on Flickr

IMG_8610 1280 by Wilhelm Frank - Stockholm, on Flickr

Bokeh check

IMG_8600 1280 by Wilhelm Frank - Stockholm, on Flickr

IMG_1039 1024 by Wilhelm Frank - Stockholm, on Flickr

Dec 15, 2012 at 06:42 PM

mortyb
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p.5 #5 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)

I almost reach out to pet the horse.

Dec 15, 2012 at 06:45 PM

carstenw
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p.5 #6 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)

The Contax and ZF versions of this lens are more different than some others, similar to the Contax and ZF versions of the 50/1.4.

Dec 15, 2012 at 06:45 PM

cogitech
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p.5 #7 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)

.

Edited on Dec 16, 2012 at 05:01 AM · View previous versions

Dec 15, 2012 at 06:59 PM

helimat
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p.5 #8 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)

cogitech wrote:
Wilhelm's "bokeh check" says it all. Perhaps some of you like that. It boggles my mind, but that's life.

Agreed, in this type of scenario the Contax does not shine. With a less busy background, it can do well enough:

_MG_2145 by helimat, on Flickr

However the main reason I like it are 3D/pop it can produce, and the detail it provides when stopped down.

Dec 15, 2012 at 08:07 PM

Grenache
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p.5 #9 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)

Had the CY and loved it, especially for BW conversions. I could not justify keeping it and my CY 100/2 when I needed some wider options.

I bought and tried Rokinon, largely from Cogitech's examples. Got a lemon and had no interest in playing roulette to see if I could get a good one. Bought it new, might have gotten damaged in shipping - seemed unlikely. Not interested in poor QC.

Have not tried the Canon FD/SSC but have never been a big fan of the 85L in EF. Nice where it is sharp but relatively featureless elsewhere.

Just my pennies.

Dec 15, 2012 at 09:55 PM

Bifurcator
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p.5 #10 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)

Previously on Taste-Test:

cogitech wrote:

The only direct comparison I have seen (member tdong at getDPI) between the Leica R 80/1.4 and the Rokinon showed the Rokinon to be superior (to my eyes). Unfortunately, the links to the photos are broken.

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/nikon/8293-leica-summilux-80-1-4-vs-rokinon-85-1-4-a.html

--

Actually, the Leica samples in tdong's test showed "ringed" bokeh highlights where the Rokinon's was extremely smooth.

Sharpness-wise, at 100%, the Rokinon easily matched the Leica as well. Colours were basically the same.

His test was a major influence on my purchase of the Rokinon. I was an owner of the FD SSC Asph, EF 85/1.8, and Rokkor 85/1.7 at the time. I sold them all after testing the Rokinon.

Perhaps not a walk-around, but for portraits (which is basically all I use it for, except for some performance stuff as well) I couldn't find anything better, especially when price was considered.

If I hadn't needed the money so badly at the time, I would have kept the FD SSC Asph (and the CV 125/2.5, and the CZ21, and....). Now that I am financially better off, I do not feel the desire to re-purchase the FD. The CV125 and CZ21? Yes.

Some Rokinon performance samples (allowed in this thread?)

Boring? Lacking in some way? Would nervous, edgy bokeh have added something? (these are rhetorical questions)

--
The Rokinon shines at weddings, too, in my not-so-humble opinion:

--
The shots in my last two posts would have been pretty damn good with the FD, as well, but I wouldn't have wanted to be shooting them with the Zeiss.

--

What was the emotional connection based on? Do you think it had anything to do with the considerable investment you had in the Leica?

I'm not trying to be combative. I just know how easy it is to let oneself become enamoured by something upon which one has spent a lot of money, or invested a lot of personal time in.

Or, perhaps because, well... it's a Leica!

--
You could be right about the colours. In tdong's samples, they looked virtually identical to me. Either way, I like the Rokinon's complete lack of cast. It is one of the "truest" lenses I have ever used with respect to colour. Muted? Perhaps. I like it - Reminds me of the wonderful look of the CV125.

--
The tests I performed were controlled, but of subjects that I typically shoot. They were portraits taken with several lenses of the same focal length. Therefore, it was quite simple for me to determine that in real-world situations the Rokinon would perform best for me.

Had I an unlimited budget to own the Leica back then and test it, I might have fallen in love with it. I'll never know, but I have no desire to purchase one. It just isn't an attractive value proposition to me. I guess I should consider myself lucky that I can be satisfied with a lens that costs so little.

When I see customer's eyes pop out of their heads upon seeing the photos, I think back to discussions similar to this one, and I simply smile to myself.

--
Wilhelm's "bokeh check" says it all. Perhaps some of you like that. It boggles my mind, but that's life.

...Show more →

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Grenache wrote:
Had the CY and loved it, especially for BW conversions. I could not justify keeping it and my CY 100/2 when I needed some wider options.

I bought and tried Rokinon, largely from Cogitech's examples. Got a lemon and had no interest in playing roulette to see if I could get a good one. Bought it new, might have gotten damaged in shipping - seemed unlikely. Not interested in poor QC.

Have not tried the Canon FD/SSC but have never been a big fan of the 85L in EF. Nice where it is sharp but relatively featureless elsewhere.

Just my pennies.

Yeah, I dunno if it's justified or not but I kinda feel the same way. I think in my case it's just the lame-ass name. Sam Yang? Gimmie a break! That would be like buying a Hyundai car. UG! Probably the same sort of experience too.

I'll pass. Maybe if I find one with a scratched up body for $50 or something.

------
The bokeh on a crop sensor remember is larger than on a FF so while the FD is still uber-creamy the C/Y 1.4 softens up quite a lot. Well, just imagine cropping to the center-most 65% or 50% of the image and I guess one can understand how some of the hardish blur transitions soften as they expand to fill the zoom so to speak - not to mention that it's bokeh is not all that edgy in the first place. Here's two I took today and one from a few months ago all WO at F/1.4

http://tesselator.gpmod.com/Images/_Image_By_Lens/Zeiss_Planar_85mm_f1.4/_1020285.jpg

http://tesselator.gpmod.com/Images/_Image_By_Lens/Zeiss_Planar_85mm_f1.4/_1080056_Zeiss_85mm_f1.4_Planar.jpg

http://tesselator.gpmod.com/Images/_Image_By_Lens/Zeiss_Planar_85mm_f1.4/_1080062_Zeiss_85mm_f1.4_Planar.jpg

The girl shot has a very busy BG (lined up cigarette packages) but it looks ok to me. I like it!

I also don't notice a lot of CA with this lens either. There's some cyan fringing around EXTREMELY harsh highlights but I can't think of a lens that doesn't exhibit the same at some point - even most APO designs. <shrug> So I'm not sure why some here say it has CA and I've not encountered it. Maybe just lucky? Hmmm...

Edited on Dec 18, 2012 at 02:54 PM · View previous versions

Dec 15, 2012 at 10:34 PM

sebboh
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p.5 #11 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)

Bifurcator wrote:
The girl shot has a very busy BG (lined up cigarette packages) but it looks ok to me. I like it!

I also don't notice a lot of CA with this lens either.

step back 8 ft and take a waist up shot of her and see how it looks.

Dec 15, 2012 at 10:45 PM

edwardkaraa
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p.5 #12 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)

Just thought I should mention that Zeiss has been silently developing its look along the years, and not all Zeiss 85/1.4 are created equal.

Even within Contax, there are drawing differences between older serial numbers and newer ones within the same 85/1.4 samples. The N85 has a very different rendering, the ZF/ZE has a slightly modernized look, and the ZA has super smooth creamy bokeh that I found so unZeissy. If you look at the recent models like the 35/1.4 and 25/2 and 135/2, you will realize that Zeiss has been working on its modern look almost to the extent of disconnecting completely with the older look.

Dec 15, 2012 at 10:58 PM

Bifurcator
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p.5 #13 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)

^^ Hmmm, That's very interesting! My serial number is 61499xx

"step back 8 ft and take a waist up shot of her and see how it looks."

OK:

http://tesselator.gpmod.com/Images/_Image_By_Lens/Zeiss_Planar_85mm_f1.4/_1080063_Zeiss_85mm_f1.4_Planar.jpg

http://tesselator.gpmod.com/Images/_Image_By_Lens/Zeiss_Planar_85mm_f1.4/_1080063_BW_Zeiss_85mm_f1.4_Planar.jpg

What will that show?

Dec 16, 2012 at 12:07 AM

sebboh
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p.5 #14 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)

Bifurcator wrote:
OK:

What will that show?

it changes the ratio of distance to subject versus distance to background, which plays the biggest role in how bokeh looks (much more important than lens lens character). i had forgotten that it's a 170mm lens on your camera so the difference between a head shot and a waist up shot won't be as dramatic. still gives a much better example of the lenses bokeh characteristics than the first shot where nearly any lens of that speed and focal length would have similar oof rendering.

on an unrelated note, i had no idea there were circle K's in japan. now, for some reason, i'm stuck with the thought of a japanese version of Bill & Teds' Excellent adventure running through my mind.

Dec 16, 2012 at 01:59 AM

cogitech
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p.5 #15 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)

Bifurcator wrote:
Yeah, I dunno if it's justified or not but I kinda feel the same way. I think in my case it's just the lame-ass name. Sam Yang? Gimmie a break! That would be like buying a Hyundai car. UG! Probably the same sort of experience too.

I'll pass. Maybe if I find one with a scratched up body for $50 or something.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is a turning point for me.

Dec 16, 2012 at 03:12 AM

edwardkaraa
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p.5 #16 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)

Bifurcator wrote:
^^ Hmmm, That's very interesting! My serial number is 61499xx

I can't remember the serial number sequences anymore, but it helps to know how old is the lens. Is it AE or MM. If AE, does it have the ninja star or not. The differences are not dramatic, just minor tweaks/refinements.

Dec 16, 2012 at 03:26 AM

Bifurcator
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p.5 #17 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)

AE with Ninja-star, yes. Are there any without the ninja star? You mean the red asterisk after the "T" right?

Bifurcator wrote:
OK:

What will that show?

sebboh wrote:
it changes the ratio of distance to subject versus distance to background, which plays the biggest role in how bokeh looks (much more important than lens lens character). i had forgotten that it's a 170mm lens on your camera so the difference between a head shot and a waist up shot won't be as dramatic. still gives a much better example of the lenses bokeh characteristics than the first shot where nearly any lens of that speed and focal length would have similar oof rendering.
Yeah, I know that...

I mean what is your assessment...

on an unrelated note, i had no idea there were circle K's in japan. now, for some reason, i'm stuck with the thought of a japanese version of Bill & Teds' Excellent adventure running through my mind.

Be Wexcellent To Weach Othau!

I'll pass. Maybe if I find one with a scratched up body for $50 or something.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

cogitech wrote:
This is a turning point for me.

How so?

Dec 16, 2012 at 05:08 AM

carstenw
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p.5 #18 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)

Bifurcator wrote:
AE with Ninja-star, yes. Are there any without the ninja star? You mean the red asterisk after the "T" right?

"T*" is Zeiss' name for their coatings for almost all their lenses for decades now. They have gone through changes, of course, but Zeiss doesn't publish the details.

Dec 16, 2012 at 05:45 AM

edwardkaraa
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p.5 #19 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)

Bifurcator wrote:
AE with Ninja-star, yes. Are there any without the ninja star? You mean the red asterisk after the "T" right?

The ninja star is the shape of the aperture blades when slightly stopped down. It resembles a ninja star, and becomes round again I think at around f/5.6. It has an effect on OOF light sources and also denotes an older production lens, as Zeiss switched later on to round blades.

http://www.photo4u.it/files/85_143.jpg

Dec 16, 2012 at 06:30 AM

Mescalamba
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p.5 #20 · Taste-Test (C/Y vs FD @ 85mm)

Ninja star is actually sometimes cool effect.

Its not like every lens does that..

Dec 16, 2012 at 09:50 AM

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