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Archive 2012 · FM Berlin Photo Meet II

carstenw
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p.4 #1 · FM Berlin Photo Meet II

Jonas B wrote:
I think I took my best images during 2006 and 2007. In 2012 I got about five keepers. I have to realize it's time to give up. "There is nothing worse than a sharp image of a fuzzy concept." Well, that's me obviously. After the photo session, when going back to Berlin I looked at a couple of the images I had taken. It confirmed the feeling I had while walking around shooting; I didn't really see a single image, I never got a feeling for the subject or for what I was doing. The images above are quickly...Show more →

I also did not feel horribly inspired on this trip, partly weather, partly temperature, and partly the place was just not as decrepit as I prefer.

I hope that you will at least keep one good camera and one good lens. I mean, OM-D + 25/1.4, or similar, maybe also the 12/2, just so that you can take photos of your trips, your partner, kids, etc. There is no need to be serious about it all the time, but completely stopping seems very drastic to me. If nothing else, sell your equipment and buy an RX100 or similar do-everything camera?

If you really do sell your MFT equipment, perhaps it is time for me to return the favour you have paid me several times in the past years and buy something from you? Send me a PM when you have decided.

A big thank you goes out to Stefan, Carsten and Markus. They spoke English all day long

Not exactly hardship for me, I am British-Canadian

Carsten was constantly talking and moving so he doesn't look as sharp as he actually is here.

Hmm. I did talk a bit...

Jan 23, 2013 at 05:14 PM

carstenw
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p.4 #2 · FM Berlin Photo Meet II

My first three shots, of not all that many. All ZF.2 35/1.4 @ f/2.0, f/1.4, f/1.4, respectively.

Chairs:

http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/urbex/CW_20130119_NikonD800_0016.jpg

http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/urbex/CW_20130119_NikonD800_0034.jpg

http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/urbex/CW_20130119_NikonD800_0019.jpg

Jan 23, 2013 at 05:49 PM

Ulff
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p.4 #3 · FM Berlin Photo Meet II

Your decision, Jonas, is surely not a desirable outcome from our photo tour, I'm really sorry to hear that! But I assume you did not go this route spontaneously and it's more the end of a long process. Anyway, a time off photography may bring you new motivation and ideas. I know what you mean by "sharp images of a fuzzy concept" - I'm currently trying to bring a concept back in my photography. I once have been way more conceptual and lost this approach for some time (a time with sharper images...). - Thanks also for our portraits. I miss one from you. Haven't I taken one with your camera?

@Carsten: great images! The last one is my favorite for sure: the foreground/background separation works really well here.

Here's my first set:
http://www.paintingwithlight.de/FilesEx/fd_17.jpg
http://www.paintingwithlight.de/FilesEx/fd_19.jpg
http://www.paintingwithlight.de/FilesEx/fd_10.jpg

Jan 23, 2013 at 10:02 PM

philber
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p.4 #4 · FM Berlin Photo Meet II

Jonas, if you decide to go ahead with your "threat"

Either way, wherever your life takes you, Godspeed, my friend!

Regarding pictures, Jonas, they feel a bit like you "tried too hard to make it look right" IMHO, and your portraits are ten times more fun. Ullf, spectacular stuff, as ever. Count me a fan! Carsten, interesting to see you move towards more simplicity than before IMHO. And it works, too! For both of you, the second and third shots are my faves. Great stuff, I am really sorry not to have been there, all the more so as your pics are exactly the genre I don't do well, and I need learning how to do it...

Jan 24, 2013 at 02:41 AM

Jonas B
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p.4 #5 · FM Berlin Photo Meet II

H.Lux wrote:
(...) You're always welcome to join us on a tour.
Stefan

Thank you Stefan.
Yes, I'll just let it all rest for some time. It's not the first time this happens. I'll probably want to write more again and then one day I'll miss taking images. At least I hope it works that way again.

carstenw wrote:
(...)
If you really (...) Send me a PM when you have decided.

I'll let you know, no problem.

Ulff wrote:
Your decision, Jonas, is surely not a desirable outcome from our photo tour, I'm really sorry to hear that! But I assume you did not go this route spontaneously and it's more the end of a long process. (...)

Yes, Markus, that 's the way it is. Now I wonder why I didn't listen to the signals earlier. On a slippery slope for years, hmm... I guess I hoped for a turning point.

philber wrote:
Jonas, if you decide to go ahead with your "threat"

, I will be sorry. You are the sort of congenial and friendly fellow I would love to meet and shoot with again, and I learned much on the time we met.
That said, if I had an opinion to offer about where you are now, it would be this. Showing pictures to others is not about photography, it is about expectations. You might love a picture but be the only person in the world who thinks so. So shooting with the intent to show your pictures influences you, often subconsciously,...Show more →

Yes, they are Philippe. ...and when the tourist snaps kick the shit out of the serious stuff, also if taken without me feeling inspired, I think a time-out is a good idea.
I appreciate you took the time as I think you present several truths. Also a big thank you for the kind, or very kind, words. Going crazy may very well be one way to handle this. I'll start with writing more instead and see what happens by time.

=========================

Hey, I'm sure I'll be back one day. Not very soon perhaps but when I'm ready for it. I won't hesitate to start posting here again, or participate in some sort of meeting, in Berlin, or Paris (why not) or...

In the meantime, good light to all of you!

logging out,

/Jonas

Jan 24, 2013 at 03:43 PM

Jochenb
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p.4 #6 · FM Berlin Photo Meet II

Jonas, I know how you feel. One of my other hobbies is making music. A few years ago I had a similar dip and I decided to sell everything. It can become a problem when you're putting pressure on yourself. "I must improve". Too much perfectionism is killing.
After a few years it started to itch again and I bought back some gear. Without the pressure to perform and always the thought that it's a hobby which you should enjoy without any pressure. Things are better now.
I hope you'll figure it out.

Jan 24, 2013 at 04:02 PM

alba63
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p.4 #7 · FM Berlin Photo Meet II

Jochenb wrote:
Jonas, I know how you feel. One of my other hobbies is making music. A few years ago I had a similar dip and I decided to sell everything. It can become a problem when you're putting pressure on yourself. "I must improve". Too much perfectionism is killing.

Very interesting discussion there. I quote because me too i made (electronic) music for years. And then stagnated and gave up, a bit tired. With photography I almost did not shoot at all for months last summer and autumn, just 3, 4 shots every 2 months, partly with my smartphone.

Jonas' quotation "sharp image of a fuzzy concept" is a good reminder, just as Bressons "sharpness is a bourgeois concept". Not sure whether photography really needs a "concept", but it surely needs instinct and a clear feeling of a direction, plus a need for creating something. Getting exquisite tools first and (desperatly) seeking for a meaningful thing to do with them after probably won't work.

I did not join you on your trip (although living in Berlin, had to take care of my sick daughter), and also not yet sure if I will return to the go2know excursions.
Although they present some nice occasions for interesting vistas, I will most likely avoid them, at least in terms of photography, maybe as social meetings with shooting guys. Over the months, hundreds of gear-loaded shooters go through the same rooms and take the same shots. The medical seat in the cave at Beelitz, the slaughtered piano at Grabowsee (was it there?) etc. etc. Nothing there anymore in the way of creativity or personal style. Fully exploited photographically. The guides give hints where to find the best shots. Beelitz was a fascinating thing 15 years ago when it was closed to the public, now every inch there is tagged on Flickr and Co.

Gear can be a real problem, technology has become more a distraction than a tool for expressing something. It is fascinating (to me as well), evolving at high speed, and the Alt world is maybe even worse. You think it gets you to a more truthful representation of mood, colour and light, then 2 or 4 years later you wake up with a cabinet full of rarely to find lenses and cameras worth a new car, you know everything about the subtle rendering of the lenses, their bokeh and such, but despite all this optical excellence you feel stuck and most of the stuff you do never makes it past the "advanced eye candy state", made for the "hey, great stuff, I like the second & third most"- gratification.

So, good luck to you Jonas, I like that consequence. Follow your instinct! Good thing...

Bernie, from freezing cold Berlin

Edited on Jan 25, 2013 at 04:00 AM · View previous versions

Jan 24, 2013 at 06:07 PM

H.Lux
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p.4 #8 · FM Berlin Photo Meet II

Ok, here is me desiring for the "I like your shots" - gratification.

As always I have difficulties in telling the good ones from the average ones, therefore posting some more than my companions. Some pics are not perfectly geometrically corrected, as there are no profiles for the 25mm in my outdated Photoshop-version:

Have fun,

Stefan

Edited on Jan 24, 2013 at 07:02 PM · View previous versions

Jan 24, 2013 at 06:39 PM

carstenw
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p.4 #9 · FM Berlin Photo Meet II

The more I think about this, the more sad I feel. I wish I could say that I don't understand you, but truly, I do. I have been at this place before, and I too have stepped out until something brought me back, although I never sold all my equipment of the day. Ultimately, I think we all have it in us, and sometimes it is deeply buried, other times it rises to the top.

When I bought the D800, I went through a mini-cycle like this too. I was in such a groove with the big D3, but I wanted certain benefits from the D800. I have wondered if the switch was a mistake, but ultimately I think not, the timing was just poor, and I was caught off-guard in mid-stride, and am still finding my balance again.

This time I chose not to step out, but to fight, but who knows what will happen the next time. I feel a lot of struggle in me at the moment, and it comes out in different ways. I am not sure I understand all of it, and what causes it, it goes beyond photography.

One thing is relatively clear: few people use large collections of equipment to their fullest, and great work can be done with very little. I struggle with this all the time, and want to trim down, but often end up doing the opposite instead.

On top of this, it is so easy to fall into the trap of pleasing others rather than yourself, especially in a forum like this, and I guess the trick to pure enjoyment is to transcend that, and to put no weight on success, but to focus on the freedom of seeing, and the pleasure of the result.

Jonas, I hope you keep only the equipment you like the best, sell the rest, take a break, and come back refreshed with some new ideas.

Jan 24, 2013 at 06:46 PM

carstenw
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p.4 #10 · FM Berlin Photo Meet II

Stefan, I like #1 very much. #5 and the last one are also very nice.

I did find one portrait of Jonas, with his own camera, no less (E-M5, 75/1.8@f/2.0):

http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/urbex/CW_20130119_OlympusEM5_0113.jpg

Jan 25, 2013 at 04:58 AM

carstenw
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p.4 #11 · FM Berlin Photo Meet II

alba63 wrote:
Over the months, hundreds of gear-loaded shooters go through the same rooms and take the same shots. The medical seat in the cave at Beelitz, the slaughtered piano at Grabowsee (was it there?) etc. etc. Nothing there anymore in the way of creativity or personal style. Fully exploited photographically. The guides give hints where to find the best shots. Beelitz was a fascinating thing 15 years ago when it was closed to the public, now every inch there is tagged on Flickr and Co.

I think if we would not photograph anything which has been shot a lot already, then we could all just sell our equipment and watch tv. The same with music. I think we have to very carefully define the reason that we do it. If we do it primarily to create something new that no one has done before in that way, then most of us can just give up. If, however, we do it for the enjoyment of it, and perhaps of our families and friends, then there is still lots of enjoyment to be had.

Personally, I try to work more project-oriented partly to accumulate a body of work different than what others have done, even if some of the individual shots are not unique. The more shots, the more it converges on a personal style. The walk-about type of shot does very little for me, other than make a nice setting for a social event. Often many shots from such walks resemble each other.

But if nothing comes, then it makes no sense to force it. Taking a break can help, although people around here tend more toward adding another piece of equipment to get a fresh look on things.

Jan 25, 2013 at 05:16 AM

Ulff
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p.4 #12 · FM Berlin Photo Meet II

Hi Bernie, nice to see you here! The reason why you won't take part at such excursions (same shots, not room for creativity, etc.) is interesting. Personally, like Carsten, I wouldn't agree with it.

First, I can be happy or even proud if I manage to take a good image at a great location that someone has done before in a similar way and which I liked. To stay in the music metaphor, it's like playing and enjoying a nice Mozart sonata, which much have been played (and better played) a thousand times before from other people.

Second, I find that there's always room for personal styles, creativity and new aspects. There a so many variables which play important roles in taking images: the point of view, the light, the season, the focal length you use, the lenses, the post processing, etc.. It may be the same location, but the styles and images vary to a high degree IMO. Look at our images from the tour above. Same location, very different resulting images. Carsten has a style that is easily recognizable for me. And he chooses settings I don't even considered, because they don't fit my style. I like his third image for example a lot, although I considered taking it, but did not find a good perspective. I learn a lot from those differences. The same with Stefans last image: I was looking for a angle of view like his, but didn't find it. Or his first image (I like it!) can only be done on a frosty day we had last week. It's very difficult to replicate by other people being at the same location at a different time.

The following images are examples for what can be done with a location that was not (for me) that interesting in the first place. I took the elements I saw and created rooms I would have liked to see, but which weren't actually there:
http://www.paintingwithlight.de/FilesEx/fd_07.jpg
http://www.paintingwithlight.de/FilesEx/fd_08.jpg
http://www.paintingwithlight.de/FilesEx/fd_09.jpg
http://www.paintingwithlight.de/FilesEx/fd_18.jpg
http://www.paintingwithlight.de/FilesEx/fd_20.jpg

Jan 25, 2013 at 08:40 AM

H.Lux
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p.4 #13 · FM Berlin Photo Meet II

You weren't in the same place, weren't you?

Jan 25, 2013 at 08:51 AM

Ulff
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p.4 #14 · FM Berlin Photo Meet II

Obviously you haven't discovered all rooms, Stefan...

Jan 25, 2013 at 09:35 AM

Jonas B
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p.4 #15 · FM Berlin Photo Meet II

H.Lux wrote:
Ok, here is me desiring for the "I like your shots" - gratification.

(images)
Stefan

Why not, you can surely have mine I like your shots! #2 and #7 (you found a nice ceiling there) are the images I looked longest at. Well done!

/Jonas

Jan 25, 2013 at 10:35 AM

Jonas B
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p.4 #16 · FM Berlin Photo Meet II

carstenw wrote:
(...)
I did find one portrait of Jonas, with his own camera, no less (E-M5, 75/1.8@f/2.0):
[me]

Yup, that's me. Thank you for picking a decent one Carsten!

/Jonas

Jan 25, 2013 at 10:37 AM

Jonas B
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p.4 #17 · FM Berlin Photo Meet II

carstenw wrote:
(...)
Jonas, I hope you keep only the equipment you like the best, sell the rest, take a break, and come back refreshed with some new ideas.

Carsten, I had a second thought and selling everything is not a good idea. I will however throw out the Zuiko 12/2, 45/1.8 and the 75/1.8. Having a minimal bag feels OK (E-M5, the grip and the 25/1.4), a little like going back to the roots (I grew up with an SLR with a 50mm). You are right about being able to catch family moments and having something ready when the day come and I feel like shooting something. Technically the 25/1.4 isn't the best at all (as you said, it's just a lens), but it is the lens I used the most of them all.

I have a drawer with FF lenses which I'll keep, one doesn't know when one of them will be "needed" for a possible future system. But handling it this way make will make my current system as small as possible.

Thank you for the input!

/Jonas

Jan 25, 2013 at 10:45 AM

Jonas B
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p.4 #18 · FM Berlin Photo Meet II

alba63 wrote:
(...) Getting exquisite tools first and (desperatly) seeking for a meaningful thing to do with them after probably won't work.
(...) Beelitz was a fascinating thing 15 years ago when it was closed to the public, now every inch there is tagged on Flickr and Co.
(...)

Hi Bernie,

I've read your reply three times. I agree,agree and disagree. The part I don't agree with is the not fully expressed opinion of yours saying taking a photo tour to Beelitz is of no other use than as a social happening.

The Saturday, and the evening afterwards, at the old elite school I'll remember as it was great meeting Stefan, Markus and Carsten. For the photographic part not so much... - but I think I would appreciate a tour to Beelitz very much, for mentioning one place of several possible. I would however like to go there alone or together with a few friends only.

Exploring a well known place in a group wasn't really for me. Heck, there were at least 25 tripods there and somebody watched every step you took (only Markus were in a parallel universe...).

But that will be some day, as mentioned, not this year I think.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the matter!

/Jonas

Jan 25, 2013 at 10:54 AM

Jonas B
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p.4 #19 · FM Berlin Photo Meet II

Ulff wrote:
(...)
I took the elements I saw and created rooms I would have liked to see, but which weren't actually there:
(some spaced out images)

Heh. Great stuff Markus! I saw the images before reading your reply and my jaw dropped as I wondered where you found those s-p-a-c-e-s. Then I got it of course but there was a moment when I felt a bit lost.

/Jonas

Jan 25, 2013 at 11:04 AM

carstenw
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p.4 #20 · FM Berlin Photo Meet II

Jonas, do you not find yourself using the 12/2? I love the 25/1.4, but find myself using the 12/2 most of all the lenses. Move a little closer, and voila, every time. Love that lens. Anyway, if you should decide to sell the 75, I am arguing with myself about buying it from you

Such a nice lens, but a bit longer than I normally use. A challenge, or pointless?

Stefan, my picks, Bernhard-style, are #1, #5 and the last one, especially #5. Very nice!

Markus, what can I say, you only need half a camera and a mirror

Great ideas.

Jan 25, 2013 at 03:00 PM

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