It's funny how you guys tolerate some things we don't and vice versa.
People would be up in arms if companies try to do something like that in Australia, but at the same time, we tolerate speed cameras here while from what I've heard, people have been shooting and throwing molotovs at those cameras in the States.
n0b0 wrote:
It's funny how you guys tolerate some things we don't and vice versa.
People would be up in arms if companies try to do something like that in Australia, but at the same time, we tolerate speed cameras here while from what I've heard, people have been shooting and throwing molotovs at those cameras in the States.
It gets even better in Europe - I remember seeing a web site a while ago which I think was based in the Netherlands which someone literally writes on the on the road that a particular speed camera will be destroyed. Sure enough, it's destroyed the next morning via shotgun, explosives or similar.
n0b0 wrote:
It's funny how you guys tolerate some things we don't and vice versa.
People would be up in arms if companies try to do something like that in Australia, but at the same time, we tolerate speed cameras here while from what I've heard, people have been shooting and throwing molotovs at those cameras in the States.
We briefly had speeding cameras in Hawaii but there was such a public uproar the government backed down and lost a lot of tax payer money due to the existing installs and personnel contracts. It was an election year and 99% of the population was against the speeding cameras (including police).
So much for efficiency…….Those older FM members like me, remember how before the internet we used to call around to get prices. So it seems like we 're going backwards!
arnold1 wrote:
So much for efficiency…….Those older FM members like me, remember how before the internet we used to call around to get prices. So it seems like we 're going backwards!
In some cases age is no disadvantadge because of experience.
I never bought a new camera or lens via internet. I prefere to visit my dealer, whom I trust since years. And you know what? He offered me the 5D MK II without preordring right out of his shelf at € 150 less 3 weeks after its announcement in March, whenn all internet offers asked for the MSPR (or even higher) and did not had any body in stock/abailable.
Wahoowa wrote:
Will they dare to cut big accounts like Adorama or B&H if they advertise below MAP?
In a heartbeat.
n0b0 wrote:
How much of it is really Canon and how much of it is the retailer using it as an excuse to raise their price and shifting the blame to Canon?
It's 100% Canon USA.
timbop wrote:
The "add to cart" thing doesn't work - still shows the MAP price.
Every brand has its own MAP rules (and sometimes the rules differ within a brand depending on the product genre). If "add to cart" is excluded by the MAP agreement (contract) we cannot employ it.
12monkeys wrote:
I'm curious, Henry. Let's say the new Sigma 35mm 1.4 lens is released at $1,000 and you have to advertise the 5DIII at $3,500. Will you then be able to advertise the pair at $4,000, for example?
I haven't seen Canon USA's most recent written documentation on the MAP regs but my guess is this would not be considered kosher.
n0b0 wrote:
If they want to f*** with the customers, simply return the favour. Go import them from Hongkong or something, instead of buying them from American retailers. Then count to 10 and see how fast they change their mind.
I'll hold your hand while you count. :-)
Imported from HongKong might well be considered "grey market" by Canon USA. That'd mean no warranty service and possibly no ability do download/install firmware updates.
No offense to Henry Posner but I don't think B&H or other American retailers are resisting all that hard to this MAP thing. If Canon and all the retailers stand behind this, they can effectively control the market price. It is after all, designed to maximise their profit.
No offense to you but you're being naive. Here's what can happen to a retailer (ANY retailer) who violates MAP. Loss of co-op advertizing money. Loss or reimbursement for rebates. The vendor can (and will) refuse for some period of time to ship more of the item whose MAP price was violated. The vendor can (and will) refuse for some period of time to ship more of any item in that item's genre. The retailer could have its authorized retailer status suspended or voided. Enforcement is strict and the penalties for violations are severe.
n0b0 wrote:
And if I was a retailer, I wouldn't be too sad about it either since MAP seem to be designed to prevent price war between retailers and maximise profit. I would then be able to treat preferred customers with "discounts", sell at the actual selling price to those savvy shoppers, play dumb with the rest and charge them the MAP instead of the actual selling price.
Several years ago I attended a retailers' roundtable on MAP in New Jersey. I was the only person from a "big-box" retailer with a substantial mail order and/or web presence. Every other retailer LOVED the whole MAP concept and begged the vendors to cover more products and to raise MAP values so they could charge customers the MAP price without having to dicker over our lower price and maximize profits. If our advertized price for item XX is $MMM and their price is the same, they can more often sell for that advertized price because too many uninformed customers won't know about our lower price.
PERSONAL OPINION:
The idea IMO is to empower the vendor's entire retailer network and strengthen it. After all, if our lower prices drive every other retailer out of business, Canon USA might worry about which of us is the tail and which the dog.
B&H Henry and Adorama Helen are here as damage control
Speaking only for myself I'm here to represent B&H as an employee with 15 years of tenure, as a photographer with 20+ years of professional experience and as someone who, through my B&H contacts, has some understanding of the industry and the market forces which drive it. Damage control is part of what I do, but when a customer has a problem while I want to fix it, my larger mission is to determine if the problem could be avoided for others by some modification of a policy or procedure or whatever. I'd be grateful if you wouldn't minimize or denigrate what I do, ineffective as I may be.
big country wrote:
The large online stores that have dropped their pants to sell a lot of units w a smaller margin are the reason this is happening.
Or, the large online stores have worked diligently to get the best possible prices from our suppliers so we can pass those lower, more attractive and more competitive prices on to you is one reason this is happening.
Mr.Lindy wrote:
Agreed, Nikon is being heavy handed now in not selling parts to repair shops not included in their current 23 sponsored repair shops. Up until now I thought I could go local as they'd source the Nikon Parts as they've done for 20 years.
Without your input we would have no real insight into what is going on in the industry. I for one really appreciate your professional perspective.
. henryp wrote:
Damage control is part of what I do, but when a customer has a problem while I want to fix it, my larger mission is to determine if the problem could be avoided for others by some modification of a policy or procedure or whatever.
Perfect. Perfect. Perfect!
I have a 6 Sigma Black Belt and am a big, big believer in quality, customer service, and continuous process improvement.
6 Sigma itself is a bit complex and overblown at times. But the concepts go back to the base insights of Deming, and things like the Toyota Production System and GE Quality initiatives.
At GE, for example, the goal was for each Black Belt to take $1 million of waste out of the system each year, with no negative impact to the customer.
Most systems have at least 20% waste that can be removed, by focusing on data and empowering employees to improve their own, day to day processes.
I wish we could implement that type of professional, data driven discipline when faced with all of the tough political decisions of the past years - cutting school budgets while maintaining quality education, etc.
It starts by treating EVERYONE at the table with respect, as a partner who has a stake in the process, and making DATA DRIVEN decisions, not making "gut" decisions or attacking other parties based on perceptions ....
mmurph wrote:
At GE, for example, the goal was for each Black Belt to take $1 million of waste out of the system each year, with no negative impact to the customer.
All I want to do is make new and different mistakes tomorrow because repeating the same ones day after day gets tedious and boring. :-)
I remember looking through the Fry's add this weekend and their solution is to put 'FRY's bucks' next to the discounted item, ie. upper left corner of this add for instance.
n0b0 wrote:
It's funny how you guys tolerate some things we don't and vice versa.
People would be up in arms if companies try to do something like that in Australia, but at the same time, we tolerate speed cameras here while from what I've heard, people have been shooting and throwing molotovs at those cameras in the States.
What I get is why all the red necks aren't shooting the cameras; heck I'd support them all the way. We had a few destoryed early on, but I haven't seen one touched for years. I'd actually consider leaving Australia because of them and will never live in Victoria or as we call it Pigtoria these days. Worst place to drive in the world.
Pixel Perfect wrote:
What I get is why all the red necks aren't shooting the cameras; heck I'd support them all the way. We had a few destoryed early on, but I haven't seen one touched for years. I'd actually consider leaving Australia because of them and will never live in Victoria or as we call it Pigtoria these days. Worst place to drive in the world.
I'd consider leaving Australia because of didgeridoo music, to use the word "music" only conditionally in this context.
Pixel Perfect wrote:
I'll bet a Dingo never took Ya Baby either Petal. And you don't get kangaroos like we do hopping down the main roads of Sydney.
Spent the summer of 70 up in north eastern Washington State on my great uncle's ranch, 250+ acres, asked him the 1st night I was there why it was so quiet, he said that's my boys at work protecting everything. I hadn't seen anyone but family and the livestock, a rattle snake that greeted me by the chicken coop. Thought he was talking about ranch hands...
He had nine male Dingos, his boys, roaming the ranch...they are an interesting breed of dog, they do not bark, but are well behaved, well kinda. Found pieces of various critters behind the larger barn, seems they enjoyed presenting my great uncle Howard with a trophy or two. When he spoke they looked right at him, one hand gesture and they were gone, off guarding/hunting. It was an interesting summer for a thirteen year old SoCal surfer
PetKal wrote:
Jerry, I wonder about the provenance of those dingos.....how did they get to Washington state ?
I never asked...one of my uncles was a merchant marine/seaman/radioman; sailed round the world?
They were lean, grayish/tan/brown, thin haired, small pointy eared dogs, if memory serves around 65 pounds or so, very purposeful looking...I'd never seen/heard of anything like them...ya know my folks didn't talk about them much?
At thirteen I didn't think on many things...missed summer's surfing, the beach something terrible! They had me quite busy. Rode my first horse, shot my first and last; only buck, caught my first rainbow trout and silver salmon, skinned said buck and a few rabbits, milked cows; cleaned up after them, etc, cut n baled way too much Alfalfa, helped weld drainage/watering piping.
Hard work but lots of fun...even laid out long sheets of cheese cloth on my grandparents flat roof, split n dried Apricots out in that 100+ degree sunshine...good memories. Funny thing, I just received a few boxes of negatives from a cousin; that merchant marines daughter, I'm scanning them, gonna help complete a huge family tree/history. Ya just never know when a bit of photographic knowledge will come in handy
