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Archive 2012 · Canon's new MAP pricing begins today!

  
 
big country
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p.5 #1 · Canon's new MAP pricing begins today!


I guess when you've worked in an industry for 12 years, that has already done what canon is doing you have a better understanding what canon is doing. It's a much bigger picture than canon is screwing over the consumer. The large online stores that have dropped their pants to sell a lot of units w a smaller margin are the reason this is happening.


Nov 03, 2012 at 05:06 AM
anthonygh
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p.5 #2 · Canon's new MAP pricing begins today!


In the UK camera prices tend to be identical...to the penny.....anywhere in the country. They call it price matching here but if there is a difference between that and price fixing I can't see it.

There is something to be said for a forum dedicated to identifying the best deals out there...for all photo related products. There is also something to be said for boycotting over priced products...if they don't sell the price will fall...the G1X and the 5D3 are 'classic' examples!!



Nov 03, 2012 at 05:31 AM
n0b0
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p.5 #3 · Canon's new MAP pricing begins today!


big country wrote:
I guess when you've worked in an industry for 12 years, that has already done what canon is doing you have a better understanding what canon is doing. It's a much bigger picture than canon is screwing over the consumer. The large online stores that have dropped their pants to sell a lot of units w a smaller margin are the reason this is happening.


Then please elaborate on your explanation instead of just making some vague statement about "a much bigger picture".



Nov 03, 2012 at 06:03 AM
big country
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p.5 #4 · Canon's new MAP pricing begins today!


This is what i posted on another forum, it is several posts combined into one here. I think you can get the jest of it.

====

canon isn't the first and won't be the last. The bicycle industry does do it, to protect the value of their product and the Independent Bicycle Dealers.

Garmin USA does it, they even have a list of authorized dealers, if you are not on the list, then you cannot buy their product from the companies that distribute Garmin's products. If a distributor sells a Garmin product to a non authorized Garmin dealer then the distributor is cut off. If a Bicycle retailer (authorized Garmin Dealer) lists the Garmin product below retail on their website, in an ad, etc they have broke the dealer contract and their dealership is revoked.

illegal or not, Garmin is protecting their product. And it's just not Garmin, it's the Majority of bicycle companies that are doing this, even bicycle manufacturers. Add up all of the bicycle companies that are doing this and they are probably worth more than Canon, and no one is getting sued.

I will wager canon won't be sued. If B and H, Amazon or Adorama break Canon's policies then Canon will simply pull their dealership. Pretty simple stuff. We can sit around and talk about lawsuits all day long, but no one will get sued. And I would also bet that Canon has had all of their dealers signing dealer agreements, and if the dealers openly break these agreements, I am also pretty sure that these dealers will lose their Canon authorized dealerships.

B & H, adorama, amazon, etc probably sell a lot of canon gear and make canon a lot of money. But when you are cutting the toes off of your independent dealers because they can't compete, it hurts the industry as a whole. I know people are looking at this at a consumer level and they are thinking they are getting screwed, but people need to realize they have been getting a free lunch for quite some time.

Whatever agreement Canon made their dealers sign, probably addresses their ebay/online presence as to what they can sell it.

I work on the backside in the bicycle industry and it is the same thing that is happening now in Canon land.

people are missing the forest from the trees. Canon is making money if B&H, Adorama, Amazon, etc sell the camera at $2800. But these retailers are dropping their pants to control the market. Independent camera shops do not have a level playing field which in the big picture hurts the product and the camera industry as a whole.

Canon hasn't been screwing you over with MAP pricing, some retailers have been conditioning you with these great prices, and now your perception is that is what the product price should be. So in the long term, it hurts the value of the product.

=====

People want to talk about free market trade, it's simple, let canon impose their MAP pricing, and don't buy. if their products aren't selling/dealers aren't buying, then guess what, the price will come down eventually.

In the Bicycle Industry, Independent dealers are coming back and strong and a large part is because of MAP pricing being enforced. Campagnolo (bicycle components) had such a huge issue with their products they starting putting ID tags on their products so that they could track the source of who was selling below retail and such (also for team riders that would get large amounts of components and dump them on ebay).




Nov 03, 2012 at 07:16 AM
Mr.Lindy
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p.5 #5 · Canon's new MAP pricing begins today!


The wife & I buy the majority of our annual gear purchases the week before Thanksgiving.

I like to SEE the best price and then shop accordingly.

Realizing I'll have to call & haggle for best price on gear is an option I will now consider.
Reminds me of buying a new car.
Ah the back & forth and back & forth and back & forth and...

I'm sticking with B&H though all of this anti internet shopping experience Canon is bestowing on the wife & I this Holiday Season. Great customer service wins.

I think I see Santa bringing us a shinny new Nikon D800 instead of Canon logo'd goodies for 2012.
Nikon seems to have sorted out their bad left AF problems while Canon has not sorted out the way overpriced at $3,499 5D Mark III & re-inflated existing EOS lens prices & bizzare new lens launch prices, ie 24-70 2.8L II.

Another thing that bugs me, 5DIII f8 af not being available till April 2013 is odd solution to me:

Why does it take Canon 6 additional months to put a feature in place that Nikon included on D600 & D800 ?


Having two brands of gear inhand gives us the option to shop Nikon this Holiday Season.




Nov 03, 2012 at 08:26 AM
mmurph
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p.5 #6 · Canon's new MAP pricing begins today!


henryp wrote:
MAP sets the lowest advertized price and how a retailer can tell you what the real selling price is. Nikon USA, Sony USA, Pentax USA have established unilateral prices which set the lowest selling price.


Before you jump on the Nikon bandwagon Mr Lindy, you might take a look at the above from Henry.

Although Canon won't let the dealers advertise below a certain price, they can still sell below that price.

Henry is saying above that Nikon actually sets a floor selling price, which is even worse. Along with Sony and Pentax.



Nov 03, 2012 at 09:07 AM
Mr.Lindy
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p.5 #7 · Canon's new MAP pricing begins today!


I jumped on the Nikon bandwagon back on January 2009 when I bought my D700 and 14-24mm 2.8

As they say, "cameras are tools", & Canon still hasn't responded to Nikon's 14-24mm 2.8 ED tool.
The Nikon 14-24mm 2.8 is one tool I'd hate to have been without the last 46 months while waiting for Canon to provide...


mmurph wrote:
Before you jump on the Nikon bandwagon Mr Lindy, you might take a look at the above from Henry.

Although Canon won't let the dealers advertise below a certain price, they can still sell below that price.

Henry is saying above that Nikon actually sets a floor selling price, which is even worse. Along with Sony and Pentax.




Nov 03, 2012 at 09:20 AM
n0b0
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p.5 #8 · Canon's new MAP pricing begins today!


@big country

I don't know what kind of market bicycle companies are operating in but DSLR market is pretty much a Duopoly where Canon and Nikon control the majority of the market. In this relatively small market, the companies are the price setters so there's little danger of any price war destroying their profit. In fact, you might even see price increase. For example, Nikon increased the price of their new superteles followed by Canon also increasing the price of their new generation superteles.

I did a little googling on MAP to find out what it is and apparently resale price maintenance was reestablished in America in 2007. So there's absolutely no point talking about lawsuit.

It is however, still illegal in Australia.

As I understand it, this MAP doesn't affect the actual selling price of Canon gear so the playing field never changed for those independent shops, at least for the higher end gear where the buyers are generally more savvy than the average P&S buyers.

All this MAP deal does is make it harder for those savvy buyers to find out the real price. And to be honest with you, I don't see how this could work if Canon can't control the MAP all over the world, especially in the cheaper part of the world like China/Hongkong where most grey import originated from.

If anything, it could possible take sales away from American retailers as people would just buy grey import from HK. That's the problem that Australian retailers are facing these days. Many of them actually try to price match those grey importers just to get the sales.



Nov 03, 2012 at 10:27 AM
big country
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p.5 #9 · Canon's new MAP pricing begins today!


people in the US are weary of Grey Market due to warranty issues. Nikon USA won't even repair Grey Market goods from what Nikon has told me, could be wrong though.

here is a more detailed response from Henry P of B and H on BPN.

http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/showthread.php/104204-Minimum-Advertised-Price-Concerns?p=850353&viewfull=1#post850353



Nov 03, 2012 at 10:31 AM
Mr.Lindy
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p.5 #10 · Canon's new MAP pricing begins today!


Thats true, however every item Nikon item I bought from B&H last 46 months has either a US # serial or oval Nikon USA stickers or logos on boxes. Used AiS lenses are always a gamble whether its grey market or not.
No repairs needed thus no problems for me concerning my old manual focus Nikon lenses bought the last 17 years "used".
No way I'd buy any current grey market Nikon lens.

No one imaging company is The Best in my eyes.
Owning both Canon and Nikon works best for me & the wife.

If Canon wants to make it harder to shop on internet in USA I'll shop Nikon.

Both could do worse next year, if so then I'll happily make do with what I already own.


big country wrote:
people in the US are weary of Grey Market due to warranty issues. Nikon USA won't even repair Grey Market goods from what Nikon has told me, could be wrong though.

here is a more detailed response from Henry P of B and H on BPN.

http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/showthread.php/104204-Minimum-Advertised-Price-Concerns?p=850353&viewfull=1#post850353



Edited on Nov 03, 2012 at 10:56 AM · View previous versions



Nov 03, 2012 at 10:50 AM
mmurph
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p.5 #11 · Canon's new MAP pricing begins today!


Mr.Lindy wrote:
I jumped on the Nikon bandwagon back on January 2009 when I bought my D700 and 14-24mm 2.8


Fair enough.

I was just saying that MAP isn't a reason to switch to Nikon from Canon. If you read Henry's post at the link above, Nikon is even more restrictive than Canon.

Cheers!
Michael



Nov 03, 2012 at 10:55 AM
mmurph
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p.5 #12 · Canon's new MAP pricing begins today!


big country wrote:
here is a more detailed response from Henry P of B and H on BPN.

http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/showthread.php/104204-Minimum-Advertised-Price-Concerns?p=850353&viewfull=1#post850353


This is well worth reading!

A lot more detail from Henry on the history of MAP, and the even more draconian restrictions of other manufacturers on selling practices.

I don't know if it is legit to copy it and paste here with a link?



Nov 03, 2012 at 11:18 AM
Yakim Peled
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p.5 #13 · Canon's new MAP pricing begins today!


n0b0 wrote:
Once again I thank God it's still illegal in Australia.


Yep. God created some wise people on our planet. I just wish he didn't concentrate most of them in just one country...

Happy shooting,
Yakim.



Nov 03, 2012 at 11:32 AM
burningheart
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p.5 #14 · Canon's new MAP pricing begins today!


Mr.Lindy wrote:
Thats true, however every item Nikon item I bought from B&H last 46 months has either a US # serial or oval Nikon USA stickers or logos on boxes. Used AiS lenses are always a gamble whether its grey market or not.
No repairs needed thus no problems for me concerning my old manual focus Nikon lenses bought the last 17 years "used".
No way I'd buy any current grey market Nikon lens.

No one imaging company is The Best in my eyes.
Owning both Canon and Nikon works best for me & the wife.

If Canon wants to make it
...Show more


That is where Canon is still good compared to Nikon. Out of warranty items. Canon will take in any lens and repair it if they have the parts, Grey market or not. Nikon will not.

This presents a problem for photographers who wish to buy used lenses at a lower affordable price or lenses that are no longer available retail, or have extremely long leadtimes to get.

For photographers who live in countries with large populations it is easier to get a used lens that is from their country. For small countries like Canada some used lenses are very difficult to find. When i wanted to get the 28 1.4 and 70-180 macro the only dealers I could find a used copy from was in the US. Nikon Canada views these as grey market lenses so they will not repair them if they ever need repairs.

With Canon Canada they will repair any lens regardless as long as the parts are available.

I can buy a used car from the US and bring it into Canada should I ever need repairs I am not refused service because it wasn't originally bought in Canada.

But back to MAP pricing, I don't concern myself with MAP pricing Canon or Nikon I only look at what I am willing to pay, if the price is too high or doesn't fit my budget I don't buy. That said if MAP pricing is not equal world-wide excluding taxes then others will rightfully get upset.

Any barrier a company puts before customers or potential customers in the long run costs them business.



Nov 03, 2012 at 01:27 PM
Yakim Peled
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p.5 #15 · Canon's new MAP pricing begins today!


burningheart wrote:
For small countries like Canada...


Please pardon me but I can't help giggling...

Happy shooting,
Yakim.



Nov 03, 2012 at 01:45 PM
Gochugogi
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p.5 #16 · Canon's new MAP pricing begins today!


MAP has been a fact or life in USA retail for a long time, before the dawn of internet commerce. Most of the pressure for MAP comes from dealers, not the manufacturers or distributors. I've listed guitars on our company's website slightly below MAP and other dealers actually complain to the distributor! And this stock was bought before a list price increase so I didn't bother to bump up the MAP. I don't think manufacturers or distributors give a rat's arse about anything other than moving product and MAP is merely a way of keeping their dealer network happy.

We used to carry a few lines without MAP prices and, although good product, they are a waste of time to stock as margins are too thin.

Edited on Nov 03, 2012 at 01:57 PM · View previous versions



Nov 03, 2012 at 01:55 PM
burningheart
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p.5 #17 · Canon's new MAP pricing begins today!


Yakim Peled wrote:
Please pardon me but I can't help giggling...

Happy shooting,
Yakim.



Yakim you made my day.



Nov 03, 2012 at 01:57 PM
Mr.Lindy
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p.5 #18 · Canon's new MAP pricing begins today!


Agreed, Nikon is being heavy handed now in not selling parts to repair shops not included in their current 23 sponsored repair shops. Up until now I thought I could go local as they'd source the Nikon Parts as they've done for 20 years.
Now the local repair is not one of 23 so they and others like them are screwed.

I'll probably sell off my Nikon 8mm 2.8 AiS as I don't know what country it was sold in.

Maybe I'll ditch the 300mm 2.8 AiS new too, though image quality is stunning and I do not require fixes. The 300mm did come with a USA manual so maybe its USA ? Who knows, Nikon won't tell me till its sent in on my Dime.


The Nikon serial number oracle has to actually feel the item before he/she looks up the serial number to determine country first sold in


Bad Canon, Bad Nikon. Both are trying to race to the bottom of the barrel in 2012.

Sadly, I won't buy a 70-180mm Micro cause Nikon did not put "US" in serial number. As the instructions manual came in 6 languages I cannot tell whats "US" and whats not.





burningheart wrote:
That is where Canon is still good compared to Nikon. Out of warranty items. Canon will take in any lens and repair it if they have the parts, Grey market or not. Nikon will not.

This presents a problem for photographers who wish to buy used lenses at a lower affordable price or lenses that are no longer available retail, or have extremely long leadtimes to get.

For photographers who live in countries with large populations it is easier to get a used lens that is from their country. For small countries like Canada some used lenses are very difficult to
...Show more



Nov 03, 2012 at 02:48 PM
mmurph
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p.5 #19 · Canon's new MAP pricing begins today!


Mr.Lindy wrote:
Who knows, Nikon won't tell me till its sent in on my Dime.


Wow, that is absurd! It makes it almost impossible for a consumer to buy a used Nikon lens and know what they are getting.

That really undercuts the marketplace for their used lenses. Sounds like a fine example of bureautic rule making without regard to consequences for the customer! (ie: arrogance.)

I am actually planning on buying a Nikon in the coming months just to test out one of their cameras.

I almost bought a refurb D800 for $2,500 when Adorama had them on sale last week, but the limited 90 day warranty, with no returns to Adorama, made me balk. I have not heard good things about Nikon customer service.

Thanks!
Michael



Nov 03, 2012 at 03:58 PM
Lotuselite
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p.5 #20 · Canon's new MAP pricing begins today!


These policies are very tiny minded. Are there exceptions for people who acquired their equipment while living out of their home country for, say, business reasons, military assignments and so on? Not a big percentage of the market I grant you but for Nikon to refuse to service their product even if you are prepared to pay the going rate is just mean minded.
I assume that the service facilities of the country of sale would still offer repairs other wise you could end up with expensive paper weights.



Nov 03, 2012 at 05:43 PM
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