p.1 #1 · Why no fast/constant aperture DX wide angle from Nikon?
So Nikon makes a killer 17-55 F2.8 DX lens, and this is complemented really nicely with a 70-200 VR or VRII for the telephoto end (not much to be missed from 56-69mm). Why doesn't Nikon produce a fast(ish), constant aperture, wide angle DX lens to round out a DX holy trinity? Nikon originally made the 12-24 F4, which had great build quality and a constant F4, but big time overlap with the 17-55. They now make the 10-24 variable aperture which is a nice lens in its own right, but seems to sacrifice speed for range out to 24mm. Wouldn't it make sense for Nikon to make an equivalent to the Tokina 11-16 F2.8? I realize the Tokina is supposed to be a sweet lens, but not having the Nikon rubber gasket at the lens mount is a deal killer for me as I shoot in wet environments a lot. If Nikon made a similar lens for a bit more (the Tokina isn't cheap), I am sure that most would choose Nikon over Tokina for an extra $100. Then DX shooters could have the 10.5 fisheye, a 11-16, 17-55, and 70-200 to make for a great F2.8 kit to cover almost everything. If Nikon hasn't done it yet, then I doubt they will. Just seems strange to me that Tokina has the fast wide DX niche on lockdown when I would think Nikon would have made a lot more money on an 11-16 F2.8 than the 10-24 VA. Is there any hope of Nikon making such a lens in the future? Is there some reasoning behind them not doing so that I am missing?
p.1 #2 · Why no fast/constant aperture DX wide angle from Nikon?
don't think theres much demand for an expensive, fast aperture lens for DX. I'd wager that Nikon thinks if you want to go wide, you'd probably have an FX body witht the 14-24 or something along those lines. But these are all just random guesses in my head.
p.1 #3 · Why no fast/constant aperture DX wide angle from Nikon?
Just to guess at an answer to your question, my guess would be that DX anything other than18-xxx, isn't in Nikon's priority list. At least it hasn't been for the last 2 years or more.
When Nikon released the d300, they claimed it was their DX flagship and that it demonstrated their continued commitment to DX. Well, that was 5 years ago.... I haven't seen ANY significant indication that Nikon really cares about anything but TOL lenses and bodies. The 80-400 and 300 f/4, for example, are the poor man's wildlife lenses. They are hopelessly outdated when compared to any of the modern offerings, some of which have been iterated a couple of times or more, since the 80-400 was released.
Nikon has iterated a large number of mid-level, variable aperture zooms for DX, along with the 10-24. Apparently that's their priority for DX. So, when it comes to the masses, apparently it's "Let them eat cake!"
p.1 #4 · Why no fast/constant aperture DX wide angle from Nikon?
I don't know if you read Thom Hogan's musing on his website, but he's been doing a lot of writing on DX this month. Probably worth looking into.
Frankly, I don't think Nikon is all that committed to DX users beyond trying to get them to be customers with basic kit lenses and maybe the 35/1.8. A Nikon that was serious about creating a proposition of value would have released fast, wide zooms and primes specifically for DX within the last 5 years.
FWIW, I love my FX body and glass; they produce great IQ and I am very vested in the system. They are large and heavy, and Nikon hasn't done anything to keep me (and too many others) interested in them for small, light systems, (and I really wish they would. My next camera system with significant body+lens investment will be coming from something like the Fuji X-mount, Sony NEX, or μ4/3, unless Nikon pulls off some seriously surprising releases.
Oct 13, 2012 at 03:26 PM
Andre Labonte Offline • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · Why no fast/constant aperture DX wide angle from Nikon?
^^^^ Alan, you beat me to it. I was going to suggest to the OP to read Thom Hogan's posts for the last few weeks.
p.1 #6 · Why no fast/constant aperture DX wide angle from Nikon?
Nikon is on the edge of pushing me to the Canon 7D series. As for the tokina 11-16mm f2.8, I have that lens and it is excellent. I have doubts Nikon could compete with it without charging nearly twice the price.
p.1 #7 · Why no fast/constant aperture DX wide angle from Nikon?
Loren E wrote:
So Nikon makes a killer 17-55 F2.8 DX lens, and this is complemented really nicely with a 70-200 VR or VRII for the telephoto end (not much to be missed from 56-69mm). Why doesn't Nikon produce a fast(ish), constant aperture, wide angle DX lens to round out a DX holy trinity? Nikon originally made the 12-24 F4, which had great build quality and a constant F4, but big time overlap with the 17-55. They now make the 10-24 variable aperture which is a nice lens in its own right, but seems to sacrifice speed for range out to 24mm. Wouldn't it make sense for Nikon to make an equivalent to the Tokina 11-16 F2.8? I realize the Tokina is supposed to be a sweet lens, but not having the Nikon rubber gasket at the lens mount is a deal killer for me as I shoot in wet environments a lot. If Nikon made a similar lens for a bit more (the Tokina isn't cheap), I am sure that most would choose Nikon over Tokina for an extra $100. Then DX shooters could have the 10.5 fisheye, a 11-16, 17-55, and 70-200 to make for a great F2.8 kit to cover almost everything. If Nikon hasn't done it yet, then I doubt they will. Just seems strange to me that Tokina has the fast wide DX niche on lockdown when I would think Nikon would have made a lot more money on an 11-16 F2.8 than the 10-24 VA. Is there any hope of Nikon making such a lens in the future? Is there some reasoning behind them not doing so that I am missing? ...Show more →
I think the newer version II of the Tokina 11-16 does have a mount gasket. Thats it looks like it does to me. I know Tokina has been putting them on the newer lens like the 17-35/4.
p.1 #8 · Why no fast/constant aperture DX wide angle from Nikon?
I appreciate the replies. I did spend a couple hours on Thom's site thanks to you guys, and really enjoyed reading his perspective on DX. David, in looking at that photo I do indeed see a rubber gasket. I asked Lens Rentals if it had a gasket a few weeks ago and they said no, but maybe were misinformed (unless that is a doctored image). Already having and loving my 17-55, I think I might sell the 10-24 and go for the version II of the Tokina even though I really prefer to shoot Nikon glass.
p.1 #9 · Why no fast/constant aperture DX wide angle from Nikon?
I have often suspected that key employees from the lens companies migrate from company to company from time to time. The latest Sigmas sometimes outperform their Nikon counterparts.
p.1 #10 · Why no fast/constant aperture DX wide angle from Nikon?
Loren E wrote:
I appreciate the replies. I did spend a couple hours on Thom's site thanks to you guys, and really enjoyed reading his perspective on DX. David, in looking at that photo I do indeed see a rubber gasket. I asked Lens Rentals if it had a gasket a few weeks ago and they said no, but maybe were misinformed (unless that is a doctored image). Already having and loving my 17-55, I think I might sell the 10-24 and go for the version II of the Tokina even though I really prefer to shoot Nikon glass.
The pic is from B&H so I'm sure it's not doctored.
that is clearly a rubber gasket as you pointed out..looks the same as the ones on the Nikon lenses. I called B&H to confirm and they just tried to tell me that the literature says nothing about the lens having a rubber gasket. Finally they just gave me the number for Tokina and the person I spoke with there said it has no sealing and that is just where the mount meets the exterior finish. I asked if this could be a photo of a prototype lens that had a seal but got no direct or clear answers...jeez talk about some frustrating research!!! Nobody I spoke to could look at the photo and say yes, you are right, there is definitely a rubber gasket there.....and then provide some type of explanation as to whether if I order a new copy if it will indeed have this gasket or not...super frustrating
p.1 #15 · Why no fast/constant aperture DX wide angle from Nikon?
I doubt a little gasket like that would do much to keep out moisture in a super damp environment. There is more to weathersealing than just that strip of rubber.
On the other hand, unless we are talking about torrential downpours, you'll probably be alright. I've shot with all of my old MF Nikkors in the rain, and my newer Tamron and Sigma lenses. I've never had a problem, that's not to say I'll never...I just don't worry about stuff like that.
p.1 #16 · Why no fast/constant aperture DX wide angle from Nikon?
DTOB wrote:
I doubt a little gasket like that would do much to keep out moisture in a super damp environment. There is more to weathersealing than just that strip of rubber.
On the other hand, unless we are talking about torrential downpours, you'll probably be alright. I've shot with all of my old MF Nikkors in the rain, and my newer Tamron and Sigma lenses. I've never had a problem, that's not to say I'll never...I just don't worry about stuff like that.
I realize that a rubber gasket at the mount does not constitute a "weather sealed lens", as a sealed lens will have seals for the zooming mechanism, front, etc, but I find this gasket really is a difference-maker contrary to your doubts. I write for fly fishing magazines and so often am around water photographing someone releasing a fish, etc....not in the rain but cameras get splashed from time to time. I once had water get in at the mount from a light splash and that was a real scare. So no, a lens with just a mount gasket (like many of the newer more plasticy Nikon AF-S lenses) is not suitable for shooting in the rain, but is not going to let water into the camera body the way others might if it gets a light splash.
p.1 #17 · Why no fast/constant aperture DX wide angle from Nikon?
I shoot a lot of off-road motorcycle racing and appreciate good "weather sealing" for dust, dirt and moisture control.
Currently I just started using the new Tokina ATX 11-16mm II for my D300s which replaced my Nikkor 12-24mm. The Nikkor worked well but the image quality produced by the Tokina is vastly superior. I briefly owned the fist version of the Tokina ATX 116 and fell in love with the image quality over the Nikkor.
The build quality of the Tokina is very solid, like the Nikkor 12-24 but as you've stated it doesn't have the rubber gasket, or the built in focusing motor for that matter, and sold it and my Nikkor 12-24mm when the new Tokina, with the advanced weather sealing, was announced. The bonus is you also get the internal focusing motor as well.
Typically my off-road kit is the D300s with the WA zoom and a D3s (or a D700) with a Nikkor 70-200 VRII where I leave the lenses on the bodies most of the time to keep dust, debris and moisture out of the cameras and lenses.
I've done this for year's and have had very little problem with dust on the sensors or dust getting into the lenses for that matter. The key is DON’T remove the lenses unless you've taken the time to clean things up a little before hand.
If I need the reach provided with the D300s crop frame I swap lenses on the two bodies getting a 300mm equivalent image from the long end of the 70-200 zoom and use the wide angle DX zoom lens on the FX body which still gives excellent results with a little cropping. On the 16mm end the Tokina produces and excellent full frame image on the D3s that rivals just about any rectangular 16 to 20mm lens I've ever owned and the 2.8 aperature gives excellent depth of field control.
The jury is still out on the weather sealing on the focusing and zoom barrels on the new Tokina ATX 116 zoom, as compared to Nikons weather sealing on the 12-24m which is rock solid.
At this point but after spending 2 1/2 weeks in Germany shooting 7000 images during Red Bull International Six Days Enduro last month, where I experienced both dusty and rainy conditions, things look very promising as nothing has shown up in the lenses or camera bodies.
As far as the Nikkor 10-24mm zoom goes the build quality isn't there for me and the floating front element, that moves forward and backward as you zoom in and out, is just an invitation for trouble when you’re constantly dealing with mud, rain, dust and dirt that you find when photographing off-road motorcycle racing.
Give me a day or two and I'll post some photos taken with the new Tokina ATX 116 II both from the DX and FX Nikons.
p.1 #18 · Why no fast/constant aperture DX wide angle from Nikon?
Thanks for your weighing in with your experiences with the different lenses Steve, really helpful! So you are confirming that the new tokina 11-16 II does in fact have a rubber gasket at the lens mount?!
p.1 #19 · Why no fast/constant aperture DX wide angle from Nikon?
Loren E
Yep, the new Tokina ATX 116 II lens absolutely has the rubber gasket.
If anybody is interested here is a link to some photos taken with the new Tokina lens. All but three of these images I believe are either wide open or near wide open. One is at f7 another at f14 and one stopped all the way down to f22 to show some variety.
I changed the file names to indicate focal length, shutter speed and aperature. All but one were taken with a D300s.
Only the dog photo, which is nearly wide open at f3.5, and the sunrise photo are with the older version lens. The sunrise photo is taken with a d700 full frame camera at 15mm at f5.6 and with some light cropping tp eliminate vingetting
My older Nikkor 12-24mm wouldn't come close to this clarity at anything less than 2 to 3 stops which was around f8 / f11.
