p.8 #1 · 46.1 MP Canon EOS-3D X To Be Announced Before PhotoPlus ?
artd wrote:
Yup. I repeat: those who want more reach are likely better served by a crop sensor camera (i.e. the 7D).
1. you need a second camera to be both bought and then carried around
Does a studio person need or want 6fps?
if he is doing something where the model is not frozen but flipping expressions or head or hair around, perhaps
and why need the camera be made for only studio and tripod landscape when for a trade off 7MP (at this level a small percentage) to make the camera a super well rounded one?
- If you want lots of FPS and FF coverage, go 1DX.
big brick, low reach, not state of the art DR
- If you want lots of FPS and reach, go 7D.
not as good for all the tons of shots when you are not reach limited
- If you want a great all-around camera, go 5DIII.
for now yeah, but why not make the next one a high MP, high DR 5D3 at the cost of such a minor loss of MP?
With these other options available, I really can't see why a Canon highmegapixel camera would need to hit a high FPS mark. The target audience that this camera would appeal to most don't really care about lots of FPS. For the market segment that does care about FPS, those needs are largely being met. (And if those existing cameras still don't provide enough "reach" then a longer lens is likely as good or better an option than a higher megapixel camera.)
p.8 #3 · 46.1 MP Canon EOS-3D X To Be Announced Before PhotoPlus ?
Pixel Perfect wrote:
As someone that does a lot birding, you do a fair amount of cropping on FF even with 500 + 1.4x, so I would like to see a higher MP FF camera. Not so sure I care much for 46MP, as this will imply slow frame rates even with dual digic V+, so for me something in the 30-36MP range would be perfect if we can get 7-8fps. I'll leave the high density sensor to APS-C. 30MP FF puts us at around 12MP APS-C equivalent and 36MP around 14MP or just under 50D.
Then again if 7D II is the rumoured 24MP, then there's even less pressure for a high pixel density FF, and 30MP would be more than sufficient for birding and landscape, macro etc, this would give me more reach than my 1D IV in FL limited shooting.
I can't see why most people couldn't accommodate 30-36MP no matter what they shoot, as long as the sensor DR is improved....Show more →
30mp is a little on the low side for resolution improvement. That would only be about 16-17% increase over a 5D3. Seems kind of marginal if you ask me...I think you need to have at least a 25% increase for it to be worthwhile. 36mp would be something like 28%. That's a nice target, but 46mp would be about a 44% increase, which sounds even better to me.
As far as the 7DII...I don't see how that alleviates any pressure for a high mp FF. I didn't buy amazing FF lenses like the 17TSE and the 24TSEII to use them on a crop sensor :/
p.8 #4 · 46.1 MP Canon EOS-3D X To Be Announced Before PhotoPlus ?
Pixel Perfect wrote:
As someone that does a lot birding, you do a fair amount of cropping on FF even with 500 + 1.4x, so I would like to see a higher MP FF camera. Not so sure I care much for 46MP, as this will imply slow frame rates even with dual digic V+, so for me something in the 30-36MP range would be perfect if we can get 7-8fps. I'll leave the high density sensor to APS-C. 30MP FF puts us at around 12MP APS-C equivalent and 36MP around 14MP or just under 50D.
Then again if 7D II is the rumoured 24MP, then there's even less pressure for a high pixel density FF, and 30MP would be more than sufficient for birding and landscape, macro etc, this would give me more reach than my 1D IV in FL limited shooting.
I can't see why most people couldn't accommodate 30-36MP no matter what they shoot, as long as the sensor DR is improved....Show more →
+1
I'd way rather 38MP and 6fps than 5fps and 46MP and infinitely rather 38MP and 5fps over 46MP and 4fps.
(The one thing is 38MP and 6fps and 5D3 AF and 5D3 body size makes the 5D3 look a bit weak, but, well the 5D3 could just be the cheaper (price is dropping, maybe next year it gets changed to $2899) 5 series for those not needing the reach and tons of MP and then the 3D can be the 38MP (and still 6fps and all the rest) version of the 5D3 priced somewhat higher maybe $4200. Of course the pure studio landscape, etc person may wish for bare bones and lower price then you have your 6.5D the 6D with this sensor in it instead. I don't know.)
p.8 #5 · 46.1 MP Canon EOS-3D X To Be Announced Before PhotoPlus ?
skibum5 wrote:
+1
I'd way rather 38MP and 6fps than 5fps and 46MP and infinitely rather 38MP and 5fps over 46MP and 4fps.
(The one thing is 38MP and 6fps and 5D3 AF and 5D3 body size makes the 5D3 look a bit weak, but, well the 5D3 could just be the cheaper (price is dropping, maybe next year it gets changed to $2899) 5 series for those not needing the reach and tons of MP and then the 3D can be the 38MP (and still 6fps and all the rest) version of the 5D3 priced somewhat higher maybe $4200. Of course the pure studio landscape, etc person may wish for bare bones and lower price then you have your 6.5D the 6D with this sensor in it instead. I don't know.)
Well, I would personally like the extra pixels as my landscapes rarely move fast enough where I need more than 1 frame per minute.
Give me a lot of really nice pixels, a great LiveView system, water proof, light weight and multiple cards and I'll be a buyer. Oh yeah...it needs to be under $3000
p.8 #6 · 46.1 MP Canon EOS-3D X To Be Announced Before PhotoPlus ?
PhilDrinkwater wrote:
I've no idea why people think I've said others don't need more mp because I havent. Someone said that those who say they dont need more mp will change their mind in 5 years.
I was replying to the comment by Glenn as shown above, not anything you said. And it was just pointing out why as a birder I would like more than 22MP. I'd still wish the 5D III had of been 30MP as I also do landscape and macro work, but it's mainly for the birding, wildlife, surfing.
Sorry if you think I was attacking you, as I actually haven't read most of the posts and certainly not what you had said that Glenn was replying to.
p.8 #7 · 46.1 MP Canon EOS-3D X To Be Announced Before PhotoPlus ?
jj_glos wrote:
Also in the same article, the 35 f1.4 mkII is ready to be announced...
PhilDrinkwater wrote:
Yes. To be honest that's the lens that I least need to update personally because it performs well IMO and I don't use it that much. Why is it they're replacing it? Does anyone know? Am I missing something?
I'm not interested in 35 mm so much because I have two 28mm lenses and an 85, but the 40 mm f/2.8 is very interesting.
I'd love to see a companion 60 mm f/2.8 lens because then I could go 28-40-60-85. I have the 50 f/1.8 metal (needs a front legend panel to secure the lens hood) but it is lonely between the 28 and the 85 and a bit of a stretch to the one or the other. In time I will get a 24-70 Mark II but I'm not likely to get the original and the Mark II is expensive (but exceptionally nice).
p.8 #8 · 46.1 MP Canon EOS-3D X To Be Announced Before PhotoPlus ?
risedal wrote:
If Canon will compete they must invest lot of money like Sony has done, 1billion dollars or more if they want to reduce the electronics and pixel size and with one exposure expose a larger sensors size than those sensors who are in Canon compakt cameras or they can merge multiple small sensors to one but it is very expensive process. Canon's current sensor lines are showing red figures because they do not sell sensors to other manufacturers and the demand is not sufficient by Canon alone when it comes to larger sensors APS and 24x36 I would say that Canon has big problems ahead...Show more →
Welcome to FM, risedal (your first post).
I disagree with your reasoning, and think you probably don't have real information to back up your assertion about "red figures" (showing a loss).
p.8 #9 · 46.1 MP Canon EOS-3D X To Be Announced Before PhotoPlus ?
skibum5 wrote:
1. you need a second camera to be both bought and then carried around
Why should cameras not be specialized like any other tool? I carry around whatever camera I need to address whatever job I'm doing. I like my Swiss Army Knife as a nice all-around tool to have in my pocket but I don't expect it to be good when I need to do something specialized like carving a turkey.
No different with photography. If you are a specialist photographer you of course expect to buy gear that is more closely tailored to what you do. Otherwise manufacturers wouldn't bother with different camera models.
if he is doing something where the model is not frozen but flipping expressions or head or hair around, perhaps
and why need the camera be made for only studio and tripod landscape when for a trade off 7MP (at this level a small percentage) to make the camera a super well rounded one?
How fast do you think studio strobes cycle?
Going back to my previous metaphor...a studio photog doesn't need a "super well rounded camera" anymore than a butcher needs a Swiss Army Knife.
(And, how is it you know this exact tradeoff in megapixels results in the specific fps you are targeting?)
for now yeah, but why not make the next one a high MP, high DR 5D3 at the cost of such a minor loss of MP?
Because if you are addressing a specific market segment (in this case studio / landscape / architecture / tripod shooters) megapixel count matters most, fps not so much. Camera manufacturers should be looking to have features in different offerings in order to hit specific markets. This is the best way for them to satisfy the demands of diverse users and give them cameras optimized to their needs.
Every camera does not need to be a general purpose camera. An all-in-one hammer-and-wrench might seem like a neat tool but if I'm a carpenter I just want the damn hammer and if I'm a plumber I just want the damn wrench
p.8 #10 · 46.1 MP Canon EOS-3D X To Be Announced Before PhotoPlus ?
The 5D3 is the well-rounded camera.
The 1D-X is the uber-camera with emphasis on rugged and fast.
The 6D would be the low cost full-frame in the Canon line.
A 40-50 Mpx camera that aims at world-beating image quality by sacrificing fps (or all fps), some (or all) video, and most AF to come in at a sub 5D3 price would be do-able and profitable and desirable. I'd get one.
It wouldn't "split" Canon's line it would augment it and increase it.
p.8 #11 · 46.1 MP Canon EOS-3D X To Be Announced Before PhotoPlus ?
artd wrote:
Why should cameras not be specialized like any other tool? I carry around whatever camera I need to address whatever job I'm doing. I like my Swiss Army Knife as a nice all-around tool to have in my pocket but I don't expect it to be good when I need to do something specialized like carving a turkey.
No different with photography. If you are a specialist photographer you of course expect to buy gear that is more closely tailored to what you do. Otherwise manufacturers wouldn't bother with different camera models.
How fast do you think studio strobes cycle?
Going back to my previous metaphor...a studio photog doesn't need a "super well rounded camera" anymore than a butcher needs a Swiss Army Knife.
(And, how is it you know this exact tradeoff in megapixels results in the specific fps you are targeting?)
Because if you are addressing a specific market segment (in this case studio / landscape / architecture / tripod shooters) megapixel count matters most, fps not so much. Camera manufacturers should be looking to have features in different offerings in order to hit specific markets. This is the best way for them to satisfy the demands of diverse users and give them cameras optimized to their needs.
Every camera does not need to be a general purpose camera. An all-in-one hammer-and-wrench might seem like a neat tool but if I'm a carpenter I just want the damn hammer and if I'm a plumber I just want the damn wrench
says that their new emphasis will be on DR and that it should beat even the D800 exmor DR
a totally brand new sensor and off with the head of the old stuff they've been doing for years now
of course this may all be some guy in a basement trying to catch the attention of Canon and get them to focus on better DR and add more MP
but hopefully it is real and they carry it in good ways
says that their new emphasis will be on DR and that it should beat even the D800 exmor DR
a totally brand new sensor and off with the head of the old stuff they've been doing for years now
of course this may all be some guy in a basement trying to catch the attention of Canon and get them to focus on better DR and add more MP
but hopefully it is real and they carry it in good ways
p.8 #14 · 46.1 MP Canon EOS-3D X To Be Announced Before PhotoPlus ?
Monito wrote:
Welcome to FM, risedal (your first post).
I disagree with your reasoning, and think you probably don't have real information to back up your assertion about "red figures" (showing a loss).
Thanks for the welcome
there are other departments who bears the cost, the sensor part earns no money because of the number of large sensors manufactured, are you familiar with what a sensor line costs and the costs involved to produce one 24x36mm sensor, then you would not disagree
says that their new emphasis will be on DR and that it should beat even the D800 exmor DR
a totally brand new sensor and off with the head of the old stuff they've been doing for years now
of course this may all be some guy in a basement trying to catch the attention of Canon and get them to focus on better DR and add more MP
but hopefully it is real and they carry it in good ways
There are no indications that Canon has purchased new sensor lines
and if they shall bring down the read noise to the level of Sony they have to build sensors with raw vise adc on the edge of the sensor and that technology and know how does not Canon have, one possibility is a collaboration with eg Panasonic.
p.8 #16 · 46.1 MP Canon EOS-3D X To Be Announced Before PhotoPlus ?
risedal wrote:
Thanks for the welcome
there are other departments who bears the cost, the sensor part earns no money because of the number of large sensors manufactured, are you familiar with what a sensor line costs and the costs involved to produce one 24x36mm sensor, then you would not disagree
Do you have facts to back up your assertion? The last time I checked, Canon as a whole is still making money (albeit less than predicted) while Sony is suffering from MASSIVE losses... talk about other departments bearing the costs....
p.8 #17 · 46.1 MP Canon EOS-3D X To Be Announced Before PhotoPlus ?
Monito wrote:
The 5D3 is the well-rounded camera.
The 1D-X is the uber-camera with emphasis on rugged and fast.
The 6D would be the low cost full-frame in the Canon line.
A 40-50 Mpx camera that aims at world-beating image quality by sacrificing fps (or all fps), some (or all) video, and most AF to come in at a sub 5D3 price would be do-able and profitable and desirable. I'd get one.
It wouldn't "split" Canon's line it would augment it and increase it.
p.8 #18 · 46.1 MP Canon EOS-3D X To Be Announced Before PhotoPlus ?
thw2 wrote:
Do you have facts to back up your assertion? The last time I checked, Canon as a whole is still making money (albeit less than predicted) while Sony is suffering from MASSIVE losses... talk about other departments bearing the costs....
Canon Inc is still making aprofit, of course reduced somewhat by the global economy and the natural disasters. The CEO resigned over this drop in revenues, but compared to Sony and Panasonic they are infinitely better shape. Canon has unfortunately slashed R&D budget.
p.8 #19 · 46.1 MP Canon EOS-3D X To Be Announced Before PhotoPlus ?
risedal wrote:
There are no indications that Canon has purchased new sensor lines
and if they shall bring down the read noise to the level of Sony they have to build sensors with raw vise adc on the edge of the sensor and that technology and know how does not Canon have, one possibility is a collaboration with eg Panasonic.
p.8 #20 · 46.1 MP Canon EOS-3D X To Be Announced Before PhotoPlus ?
PhilDrinkwater wrote:
I've no idea why people think I've said others don't need more mp because I havent. Someone said that those who say they dont need more mp will change their mind in 5 years.
I won't. Ive said nothing about others.
However I don't want more mp in a body because it will cost me more to store and slow my editing down.
Ymmv depending on what you shoot.
You are basically agreeing more or less completely with what I wrote in response to your earlier post.
I wish people would quote your entire posts rather than selectively picking a bit which completely fails to make your point
OK, I'm game. I excerpted in order to provide a reference to your post if anyone cared. Since you do, here is what you wrote:
PhilDrinkwater wrote:
So, the reason I need "46MP" is so users can have wall sized photos at high res and they will need to zoom into more than 22MP of detail over the internet so they can pixel peep (and all photographers will let them do that)? Or that our eyes will require super high res monitors suddenly?
Was that it? Seriously? lol
I'll stick with 22MP thanks It's the sweet spot for my work. I'm not saying it is for others, but for me it's more than enough
To which I replied, to paraphrase, that while this 22MP is sufficient for you and, in fact, for may people, that does not mean that increased MP is not useful for other photographers, even at the expense of frame rate or with current DR.
the 6D with this sensor in it instead. I don't know.)
. This info must be from eosfun 