p.11 #2 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
StarNut wrote:
The only thing better than abject ignorance is aggressive, abject ignorance, Congratulations on your achievement!
The product lines are, generally speaking, competitive. The entry-level products are very much in competition. The upper products can only be (properly) said to be in "competition" to the extent that if either player in this duopoly falls clearly behind in the full frame offerings, and stays that way for long, the entire line becomes less attractive as one to invest in.
But only the whiners here take seriously some slight differences as product cycles work their way through. And only people with nothing else in their lives spend substantive time and attention whining about a camera that hasn't even been released yet. ...Show more →
One doesn't need to have the real experience to expect with quite a high probability e.g. the AF performance from the specs. With 5D2, I haven't even touched one, but the general opinion was about the same what I expected from looking at the specs - good central point, lousy peripheral points. It was similar to my 30D experience, because the specs were similar.
You can't keep the AF sensor a normal precision linear one and expect to do miracles with it. If it works to f/5.6, it can have some maximum width, and the width affects the accuracy. So, it is reasonable to expect that with quite a high probability, 6D would be a good single-point camera for fast glass shooters. I'd be glad to be proven wrong, but at this moment, I don't believe it.
p.11 #3 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
artsupreme wrote:
Quote of the year, pin it before it gets locked!
Check my previous statement: Now you've attained the rarified air of "Extraordinarily aggressive ignorance." Higher and higher you go....
See, you keep denying it, but you don't actually refute what I say (cuz you can't; it's simply correct). Ridiculing that which you lack the ability to comprehend isn't the same thing as refuting it.
p.11 #6 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
MintMar wrote:
One doesn't need to have the real experience to expect with quite a high probability e.g. the AF performance from the specs. With 5D2, I haven't even touched one, but the general opinion was about the same what I expected from looking at the specs - good central point, lousy peripheral points. It was similar to my 30D experience, because the specs were similar.
You can't keep the AF sensor a normal precision linear one and expect to do miracles with it. If it works to f/5.6, it can have some maximum width, and the width affects the accuracy. So, it is reasonable to expect that with quite a high probability, 6D would be a good single-point camera for fast glass shooters. I'd be glad to be proven wrong, but at this moment, I don't believe it. ...Show more →
I have no problem with this. But one of the many things people are missing in this absurd "discussion" is the simple fact that, for the vast, vast majority of potential purchasers of this camera, that's plenty of autofocus. All Canon is doing, obviously, is differentiating their offerings, with a ladder of products. I expect that the 6D will be fairly similar to the 5D2, with somewhat improved autofocus. Canon's betting (with much more data than any of the whiners on this thread have) that this will prove to be a very attractive entry level full frame product, at that price point.
I expect Canon knows their market better than the whiners on this thread do; go figure.
p.11 #7 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
StarNut wrote:
You seem to think that these two products (the 6D and the D600; or the 5D3/D800) are in "competition." They really aren't.
Same sort of excuse was made here in this forum when the 5D III appeared - some claimed it is not in competition with the D800, what a joke! Now the same sort of excuse is used for the 6D. Sorry, man, you are running out of good arguments and excuses.
p.11 #12 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
Monito wrote:
If you had more confidence in your case you would not attempt such personal insults against StarNut.
You get used to it fairly quickly if you play on this forum (as you know). They don't like what you say, and they rarely can even begin to refute it, so they just call you names, like "fanboy." See, to them, anyone who doesn't whine incessantly about Canon's excellent products is a "fanboy," or some similar pejorative. I expect that the same nonsense goes on in the Nikon forums--the same sort of whining, and the same sort of name-calling.
For reasons that defy rational analysis, they (who show no evidence of any knowledge of economics, marketing or sales) think that they know more about designing, manufacturing, marketing and selling millions of cameras a year than Canon; I know that's crazy, but there it is.
p.11 #14 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
StarNut wrote:
For reasons that defy rational analysis, they (who show no evidence of any knowledge of economics, marketing or sales) think that they know more about designing, manufacturing, marketing and selling millions of cameras a year than Canon; I know that's crazy, but there it is.
Also, most of them are denouncing a class of camera they never had any intention of buying. That is not to forget the fact that 99% of them have never tried it, let alone touched it.
p.11 #17 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
StarNut wrote:
I have no problem with this. But one of the many things people are missing in this absurd "discussion" is the simple fact that, for the vast, vast majority of potential purchasers of this camera, that's plenty of autofocus.
Is it? When they can buy a $100 50/1.8 II (e.g. having fond memories of those film normal lens!) and IMO those peripheral sensors on the $2000 camera aren't up to focusing this $100 lens. This is what annoys me. If all the fast glass were prohibitively costly, then I could understand 6D AF specs. But somehow with all the non-L EF primes f/2 and faster... I don't feel it's good.
All Canon is doing, obviously, is differentiating their offerings, with a ladder of products. I expect that the 6D will be fairly similar to the 5D2, with somewhat improved autofocus. Canon's betting (with much more data than any of the whiners on this thread have) that this will prove to be a very attractive entry level full frame product, at that price point.
I expect Canon knows their market better than the whiners on this thread do; go figure.
That's pretty possible. But I guess this time there is no groundbreaking feature like there was video on 5D2. We'll see how it turns out.
p.11 #18 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
MintMar wrote:
Is it? When they can buy a $100 50/1.8 II (e.g. having fond memories of those film normal lens!) and IMO those peripheral sensors on the $2000 camera aren't up to focusing this $100 lens. This is what annoys me. If all the fast glass were prohibitively costly, then I could understand 6D AF specs. But somehow with all the non-L EF primes f/2 and faster... I don't feel it's good.
That's pretty possible. But I guess this time there is no groundbreaking feature like there was video on 5D2. We'll see how it turns out.
I wouldn't expect a "ground-breaking" feature in a camera body being positioned the way this one is. The fact is that the 5d2 sold well until it was replaced by the 5d3, and indications are that it continued to sell even after the 5d3 came out. Doubtless (IMO) Canon is offering a very competent product for $2100, a much better one for $3500, and a pro body for $6000; they have no intention of having anything about the 6D (other than price) be more attractive than anything about the 5D3; heck, I wouldn't be surprised if they're second-guessing their decision to make the 5D3's AF so very, very good, since I suspect that 5D3 sales have cut into the 1DX sales.
Also, it is highly likely that the vast, vast majority of those in the target market for the 6D will be perfectly happy with that level of AF; for practically everything that most people do, it will focus just fine.
p.11 #19 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling
StarNut wrote:
I wouldn't expect a "ground-breaking" feature in a camera body being positioned the way this one is. The fact is that the 5d2 sold well until it was replaced by the 5d3, and indications are that it continued to sell even after the 5d3 came out. Doubtless (IMO) Canon is offering a very competent product for $2100, a much better one for $3500, and a pro body for $6000; they have no intention of having anything about the 6D (other than price) be more attractive than anything about the 5D3; heck, I wouldn't be surprised if they're second-guessing their decision to make the 5D3's AF so very, very good, since I suspect that 5D3 sales have cut into the 1DX sales. ...Show more →
Personally, I fail to see how 7D AF in 6D would make it more attractive than 5D3, feature wise. Yes, it would improve 6D's price/performance ratio...
Also, it is highly likely that the vast, vast majority of those in the target market for the 6D will be perfectly happy with that level of AF; for practically everything that most people do, it will focus just fine.
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, let me tell you.