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Archive 2012 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling

MintMar
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling

Well, I'm surprised. With a mixed feelings, though. I congratulate them on saying truth finally, but the truth ain't pretty. There's an interview with "Professional Image Marketing Manager at Canon Europe Ltd.", who said this about 6D AF:

It was a decision that we felt that this type of camera in this particular user group, auto focus performance is not 100% critical.

Now perhaps I don't even want to know how non critical they think the AF performance is on Rebels.

Read the whole interview here:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2012/09/20/qa-with-canons-mike-owen-behind-the-scenes-in-developing-the-6D-and-whats

You will find another great gem, he basically says that they could not make cross sensors on 6D because the central cross was too big for the enhanced sensitivity. Precious!

Sep 21, 2012 at 04:34 AM

RobertLynn
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling

Nikon is only a purchase away.

Sep 21, 2012 at 04:40 AM

fraga
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling

MintMar wrote:
You will find another great gem, he basically says that they could not make cross sensors on 6D because the central cross was too big for the enhanced sensitivity. Precious!

This reminds me of when the 1DMIII was released and they went through a great deal of explaining as to why it was not possible for the camera to AF in live view.
I was an early adopter.
It really pissed me off when a few months later a rebel with AF in live view was released.

Wanna bet that next year we will get a camera with a big central AF point with -3 sensitivity and with cross sensors?

Sep 21, 2012 at 04:40 AM

MintMar
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling

fraga wrote:
This reminds me of when the 1DMIII was released and they went through a great deal of explaining as to why it was not possible for the camera to AF in live view.
I was an early adopter.
It really pissed me off when a few months later a rebel with AF in live view was released.

Wanna bet that next year we will get a camera with a big central AF point with -3 sensitivity and with cross sensors?

No, I don't want to bet. I hate losing bets...

Sep 21, 2012 at 04:55 AM

jj_glos
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling

They didn't cripple anything, they engineered a design that they feel fits the market segment that they are aiming for. If it doesn't meet your needs then you are not part of the intended market. They want you to buy the more expensive 5D3 not the cheaper 6D is you are after top AF performance.

This is Canons approach, Nikon obviously approach the matter differently (although the D600 AF could be better still).

Sep 21, 2012 at 04:56 AM

bigrob
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling

I thought he may have asked why the new 24-70 didn't get IS.

Sep 21, 2012 at 05:14 AM

MintMar
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling

RobertLynn wrote:
Nikon is only a purchase away.

Oh, it's not. It's a brand switch away. That's much longer and bumpy road. I'm not sure I want Nikon. I want better Canon. Like it's 2012, not 2005.

Sep 21, 2012 at 05:21 AM

Monito
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling

MintMar wrote:
It was a decision that we felt that this type of camera in this particular user group, auto focus performance is not 100% critical.

That does not mean it is "crippled". It means that the market doesn't want to pay for extra AF points. They don't come free. People complain enough about the price of cameras as it is. Put more points in and more people will complain about the price.

The camera was never intended to be marketed to someone as skilled and well equipped as yourself.

EOS 400D, 40D, 1D Mk2 N, 1D Mk3
EF 20/2.8, 35/2, 50/1.8 Mk1, 50/1.4, 85/1.8
EF 24-70L, 24-85, 70-300 IS, 80-200 Mk2
Sigma 10-20/4-5.6 DC, 15-30 DG, 17-70 DC, 24/1.8 DG
430EX, 580EX2
Canon waist level viewer 2

MintMar wrote:
Oh, it's not. It's a brand switch away. That's much longer and bumpy road. I'm not sure I want Nikon. I want better Canon. Like it's 2012, not 2005.

Waahhh! Canon does not owe you a single thing, not a camera.

If your current camera ceased to function because of the announcement, ... but it didn't.

Sep 21, 2012 at 05:30 AM

PetKal
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling

It looks like there are some real dummies working for Canon who are allowed to give interviews: autofocus not "critical" in a $2,000 camera ? Does one have to spend $3,500 on a Canon camera today in order to get a functioning autofocus ?

Granted, if our incomes were similar to the Canon employees' salaries, then we might also consider $2,000 to be merely loose change, and we wouldn't expect to be able to buy much with it in terms of camera capability.

Sep 21, 2012 at 05:50 AM

MintMar
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling

Monito wrote:
That does not mean it is "crippled". It means that the market doesn't want to pay for extra AF points. They don't come free. People complain enough about the price of cameras as it is. Put more points in and more people will complain about the price.

Meh. To me AF performance is not directly tied to the number of AF points, anyway. In fact, I had 1D3 configured to use 9 points. But those were all high precision crosses. Not like it was making some special difference, as 1D2N was still able to outperform it. But I found out that most of the time, 9 points was quite enough for me if they performed well.

From my experience, I could almost believe that 50/1.8 was a bad AF performer, until... until I mounted it on 1D2N and found out that it performed very well.

Why did I need 1D body to focus $100 lens wide open accurately? Why couldn't my 400D, 30D and 40D focus it as well as 1D? On central sensor? That's where I expect a performance. Not gazillion of AF points. Even Rebel should be able to focus 50/1.8 accurately on central sensor.

And if some Canon guys says "AF performance is not 100% critical" then I hear it as "your need for sharp pictures from AF is not 100% critical". So there.

It is most likely that the camera was never intended to be marketed to someone as skilled and well equipped as yourself.

EOS 400D, 40D, 1D Mk2 N, 1D Mk3
EF 20/2.8, 35/2, 50/1.8 Mk1, 50/1.4, 85/1.8
EF 24-70L, 24-85, 70-300 IS, 80-200 Mk2
Sigma 10-20/4-5.6 DC, 15-30 DG, 17-70 DC, 24/1.8 DG
430EX, 580EX2
Canon waist level viewer 2

Oh, thank you for reminding me.I gotta delete the sold 1D3 (to a guy who knew I didn't like its AF performance. But he took it for the sensor, he shoots a lot of old glass).

Waahhh! Canon does not owe you a single thing, not a camera.

Just as I don't owe Canon any brand loyalty or just positive opinions on their products, agree?

If your current camera ceased to function because of the announcement, ... but it didn't.

Sep 21, 2012 at 05:51 AM

Eric Gottesman
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling

And limiting the Nikon D600 to 1/4000 shutter isn't intentionally crippling that camera?

Sep 21, 2012 at 05:54 AM

MintMar
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling

Eric Gottesman wrote:
And limiting the Nikon D600 to 1/4000 shutter isn't intentionally crippling that camera?

Don't know. No Nikon manager said "having a fast shutter is not 100% critical" yet. ;-)

Sep 21, 2012 at 06:02 AM

Monito
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling

MintMar wrote:
Just as I don't owe Canon any brand loyalty or just positive opinions on their products, agree?

Absolutely. Please buy the camera you want from Nikon. They have it, and you'll be a better photographer; their ads say "you are only as good as your equipment".

Enjoy.

Sep 21, 2012 at 06:10 AM

MintMar
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling

Monito wrote:
Absolutely. Please buy the camera you want from Nikon. They have it,

How do you know they have a camera I want? They didn't last time I looked. There was no D700 with EF mount yet.

and you'll be a better photographer; their ads say "you are only as good as your equipment".

Enjoy.

Sep 21, 2012 at 06:16 AM

RobertLynn
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling

I don't want to stick up for canon, because I have my own beef (spot metering linked to af point, and shutter count) but if it's not the target market it's not the target market.

I'll say this though, seems odd the 7d has such good af, at a lower price point.

Maybe it is showing how out of touch canon is with the different markets. Maybe this is them saying they think it is rebel customers who will use the 6d. I don't know.

Sep 21, 2012 at 06:21 AM

Beni
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling

There are 3 technical elements that make up a photo. Shutter, Aperture and focus. Been like that since the very first camera and is as true today. To say that any of them is not crucial or critical is to show that you are designing the cameras for the shareholders bottom line and not for photographers.

Sep 21, 2012 at 06:25 AM

kodakeos
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling

cranky pants in here
PM's role is to make a camera which fits a market. Its to evaluate cost of production with retail pricing and make choices which will best suit that product in its market
the market for the 6d != a 5D3 for less coin
Its a lower end camera, which less accurate AF. However that is described, it fits the PM and his superiors decision. Now that might mean its 100% accurate in daylight with F4.5 lenses but less so under low light with F1.4 We dont know that breakdown. We just know that its not their top of the line AF. And if it DID, they would piss off a LOT of ther 5D3 users who just bought a 3500 camera. And let me tell you, people spending $3500 on a camera are more important to canon than people buying $1500-2000 cameras.

Sep 21, 2012 at 06:31 AM

ukkisavosta
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling

Strange. The Canon exec is probably kicking himself for that quote. He probably meant "The number of AF features is not a critical factor" and go on to say that "the AF is 100% accurate, though".

Unless he actually means what he said. Or said what he means, rather. Which would be even more strange: he's basically describing a prospective FF buyer, to whom auto focus performance is not critical. I mean, FF doesn't require critical focus like APS-C does, which is why the new Rebel has all cross-type sensors, right?

Of course not. Something's not right about that quote.

Jaakko

Sep 21, 2012 at 06:35 AM

MintMar
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling

kodakeos wrote:
cranky pants in here
PM's role is to make a camera which fits a market. Its to evaluate cost of production with retail pricing and make choices which will best suit that product in its market
the market for the 6d != a 5D3 for less coin
Its a lower end camera, which less accurate AF. However that is described, it fits the PM and his superiors decision. Now that might mean its 100% accurate in daylight with F4.5 lenses but less so under low light with F1.4 We dont know that breakdown. We just know that its not their top of the...Show more →

With this AF system, they were really careful, as not to piss off even T4i users.

Sep 21, 2012 at 06:35 AM

thw2
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Canon finally honest and openly admit AF crippling

RobertLynn wrote:
Maybe this is them saying they think it is rebel customers who will use the 6d. I don't know.

Then the Rebel T4i/650D customers will be in for a rude shock when they suddenly realize their spanking new US$2100 FF camera comes with only ONE cross AF point while their el cheapo Rebel camera has NINE cross AF points.

Sep 21, 2012 at 06:37 AM

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