I'm sorely tempted, but I think for the B&W I do I'm going to stick with MF (e.g. Mamiya 7II and Hassy). I've got my eye on the "M10" (or whatever's next) - though even it would have to be a real knock-out to get me to drop my M9... Which honestly, still does it for me.
DoubleNegative wrote:
I'm sorely tempted, but I think for the B&W I do I'm going to stick with MF (e.g. Mamiya 7II and Hassy). I've got my eye on the "M10" (or whatever's next) - though even it would have to be a real knock-out to get me to drop my M9... Which honestly, still does it for me.
Awesome camera though, the MM.
I almost went with the M9 and if for some reason the MM doesn't work I can always sell it (probably for what I pay)
M10? Rumors have been around now for over a year. I just hope that Leica doesn't screw it up with a lot of bells and whistles.
If I didn't already have the M9, I'd probably go for the MM myself. I'm loving the B&W-only aspect of it (without all the middle steps) and the increased resolution. You're right though, you can make the move and probably keep the money in your pocket no problem.
I don't expect to see the next M this year - perhaps a preview at Photokina, but that's a big if.
DoubleNegative wrote:
If I didn't already have the M9, I'd probably go for the MM myself. I'm loving the B&W-only aspect of it (without all the middle steps) and the increased resolution. You're right though, you can make the move and probably keep the money in your pocket no problem.
I don't expect to see the next M this year - perhaps a preview at Photokina, but that's a big if.
Yeah Leica doesn't have the same market pressures that the big two have (thanks gawd)
airfrogusmc wrote:
I just hope that Leica doesn't screw it up with a lot of bells and whistles.
But, from a market research perspective, that's the hard part. And historically, LEItz/CAmera forging their "own path" is what placed them in dire straits more than once.
So here they stand at an interesting fork in the road, and it's interesting to watch as we are lovers of photography and imaging, but most of us are also quite realistic.
Being different has brought them back. The M8 and M9 because they're not what Canon and Nikon have done are just what some photographers are looking for. They were just very late getting into the digital game. Nice to see a company that still supports all of their products and so respected their photographers that the made sure their digital camera would except their old lenses. If Leica is realistic they'll know whats brought them to the table and keep those standards and not try and compete with the big two and make sure they remain a different alternative.
Respectfully, I would argue that Leica's resistance to change hasn't brought them to a different table; rather they have sat at the same table for decades and in the technological search for things beyond the SLR that "leverage" today's technology, the market (in touring the "hall" of available tech) has come back to Leica's table and by somewhat happy coincidence, well, they've lasted long enough that the lensmount system and form factor is not only still commercially viable, but indeed marketable, again.
Live view will come for sure as it will open up telephoto, framing and macro opportunities that currently are marginal or non-existent.
I think people want the Leica M system for two reasons, and those reasons have remained the same for decades: a compact system with top-notch lenses. That's still the package today, of course, and we agree that they were very late to the digital scene from a reasonable commercial perspective.
And naturally, just as you say below and Leica's Kaufmann himself admits: they follow a different philosophy of design, manufacturing and sales, and that differentiation is what (still) makes them tick.
And tick very loudly they do, these past few years
"Nowadays Leica is in a position to do what it wants. Sometimes it takes a little longer because we want to do it our own way, which is superior quality... simplified and German design."
A putative M10 makes me think of the possibilities.....
airfrogusmc wrote:
Being different has brought them back. The M8 and M9 because they're not what Canon and Nikon have done are just what some photographers are looking for. They were just very late getting into the digital game. Nice to see a company that still supports all of their products and so respected their photographers that the made sure their digital camera would except their old lenses. If Leica is realistic they'll know whats brought them to the table and keep those standards and not try and compete with the big two and make sure they remain a different alternative.
If everything is the same then there are no choices. I do not want video and a lot of auto crap on my camera and there are a lot of photographers out there like me. I have had more problems with first my 5Ds and now my 5DIIs than I ever had with any of my Blads or my old Nikons Fs or Canon F-1s. I wouldn't buying Leica if it were like Nikon or Canon. Why they already do what they do and I doubt that Leica will do it better. Stick with what you do and what you know and don't even try to be a one sizes fits all like the big two because the mentality that buys that won't even think of Buying Leica. They don't get it and never will and thats OK as long as Leicas customer gets it. Must be doing something right because there is a waiting list for the Monochrome. I'll be lucky to see mine buy the end of the year.
The Leica M is a street/candid camera and it does that better than any DSLR. Its not the right tool for sports or birds so why would you want to try and make it that when those tools already exist? In fact they are doing very well since the M8 and M9...
Lets hope they don't screw up the M10 by thinking they need to compete with Canon and Nikon. IF they do make a camera with a bunch of FPS, video and more automation I will not buy it. Why? I got all the stuff I don't want already on my Canons.
airfrogusmc wrote:
If everything is the same then there are no choices. I do not want video and a lot of auto crap on my camera and there are a lot of photographers out there like me. I have had more problems with first my 5Ds and now my 5DIIs than I ever had with any of my Blads or my old Nikons Fs or Canon F-1s. I wouldn't buying Leica if it were like Nikon or Canon.
Unfortunately, I don't think a modern digital Leica M will prove (it has not) as reliable/ trouble free as any of the cameras you mention, including the do everything digital Canons and Nikons. I personally don't care for many of the wiz bang features (crap) but the fact they are there does not make cameras with these features less reliable than a Leica M Digital with a sensitive, mechanical rangefinder. That said, I would still love to have a Leica M Monochrom.
I have a couple of friends that have M8s & M9s and I have had far more trouble with my Canons than they have had. My reasoning is mainly I really don't like the direction the big two are going in. The Monochrome M is much more in line with my what I am looking for. So my opinion is if Leica stays true to what they are which just about everything the big two are not then they will have a market because there are a lot more like me out there. Must be because there is a waiting list for the monochrome.
I am eying to get my first M and narrowed it down to the Monochrom.
May I know what quirks I should be aware of that are Monochrom-specific. No need for a briefing on RangeFinder cameras. I am willing to learn with the camera.
I define quirks as memory card compatibilities, firmware upgrades and other things.
dolina wrote:
I am eying to get my first M and narrowed it down to the Monochrom.
May I know what quirks I should be aware of that are Monochrom-specific. No need for a briefing on RangeFinder cameras. I am willing to learn with the camera.
I define quirks as memory card compatibilities, firmware upgrades and other things.
I hope that you are aware and intend to use the camera for B & W since it has a B &W sensor and recording only. Otherwise look for an M9, M9P, ME, or wait for the M 240.
naturephoto1 wrote:
I hope that you are aware and intend to use the camera for B & W since it has a B &W sensor and recording only. Otherwise look for an M9, M9P, ME, or wait for the M 240.
Rich
Yes, the intent is B&W only. I was looking at the Type 240 but the Mono's image quality's so astounding!
dolina wrote:
Yes, the intent is B&W only. I was looking at the Type 240 but the Mono's image quality's so astounding!
OK. Good, I will defer to those in the know, I just wanted to make sure you knew what you were planning to purchase. And yes the Monochron does produce superb B&W images and files. We are now all waiting with baited breath to see what the M 240 will and can produce in color and B & W.
naturephoto1 wrote:
OK. Good, I will defer to those in the know, I just wanted to make sure you knew what you were planning to purchase. And yes the Monochron does produce superb B&W images and files. We are now all waiting with baited breath to see what the M 240 will and can produce in color and B & W.
Rich
I would be pleasantly surprised to to see the 240 outperform the Mono.
table for decades and in the technological search for things beyond the SLR that "leverage" today's technology, the market (in touring the "hall" of available tech) has come back to Leica's table and by somewhat happy coincidence, well, they've lasted long enough that the lensmount system and form factor is not only still commercially viable, but indeed marketable, again.