p.2 #1 · No interchangeable focusing screens for 5D3
pizdets17 wrote:
Sorry for being a noob but I am looking at getting a 5d2 in the coming weeks, what is all this focusing screen stuff and why do I need it? Thanks for any info
The reason people are concerned (and rightly so) is that on the 7D (similar setup to 5DIII) you can not add special focusing screens for large aperture lenses. When you use the 7D's viewfinder with say an f/1.4 lens you are only seeing something like an f/4 equivalent view. So when you try to focus manually at f/1.4, for example, it is impossible to get the focus correct. You do your best, but when you look at the images they are not correct; focus will be all over the place. There is nothing you can do except focus using live view on the LCD. The viewfinder is worthless. This removes one key capability (manual focus) from the DSLR making it a less attractive product for many. On the 5DII you are considering, you can purchase a second focusing screen that is designed for focusing these large aperture lenses.
p.2 #2 · No interchangeable focusing screens for 5D3
I don't know of any other "professional" SLR or DSLR with a non-interchangeable focussing screen. I am currently using the grid screen (Ee-D) on my 5D II. I am guessing the new body that Canon will release later in the year will be a real pro body with interchangeable screens.
p.2 #3 · No interchangeable focusing screens for 5D3
SeverianTL wrote:
There are third party focus screens for the 7D and they're easy to install. I'm sure someone will come out with them for the 5D3 soon enough. http://www.focusingscreen.com/work/7den.htm
But You don't get the menu option to choose what screen you have and therefor can't relie on the meter. And as the offset on some of the screens is not linier you can't just dial in a set expossure comp.
What I don't get is in the 7D you can change the screen quite easy as you say (3rd party screens) why canon didn't keep the user removable screens .
As I've never changed mine do you loose the overlay when you put a different screen in?
p.2 #4 · No interchangeable focusing screens for 5D3
bobbytan wrote:
I don't know of any other "professional" SLR or DSLR with a non-interchangeable focussing screen. I am currently using the grid screen (Ee-D) on my 5D II. I am guessing the new body that Canon will release later in the year will be a real pro body with interchangeable screens.
As far as I know the D4 and D800 have non-interchangeable focussing screens.
p.2 #5 · No interchangeable focusing screens for 5D3
Perhaps the lack of interchangeable screens has something to do with the "LCD overlay"
with selectable grid lines and the level gizmo. I would miss changing screens but installing shims (if required) is a pain. Canon sells them but doesn't advertise that much.
p.2 #6 · No interchangeable focusing screens for 5D3
I think that I read where the LCD overlay is removable, to what effect this will have on MF I don't know. This is dissappointing, I have a ton of high end MF lenses.
I wonder what they were thinking about when they did this. As someone else said, designers don't use cameras.
p.2 #7 · No interchangeable focusing screens for 5D3
Michael Gordon wrote:
Perhaps the lack of interchangeable screens has something to do with the "LCD overlay"
with selectable grid lines and the level gizmo. I would miss changing screens but installing shims (if required) is a pain. Canon sells them but doesn't advertise that much.
That can't be the real reason. After all, the 1DX has the very same type of transmissive LCD overlay on its viewfinder as the 5D3 and the 7D but it also has interchangeable focus screens. Why? Just another way for Canon to keep the 1D special? It makes some sense if the only use for alternate focus screens were grid lines and such. And I suppose it makes sense for the limited viewfinder of a crop camera. OTOH, Canon has got to know that a lot of "full framers" use manual focus. Strange.
p.2 #8 · No interchangeable focusing screens for 5D3
I guess the designers/accountants at Canon don't want potential buyers of this camera to purchase any of Canon's TS-E lenses which are all manual focus. In the case of owners of these lenses, the decision to purchase this camera might be questioned and probably abandoned because of the lack of interchangeabilty of screens.
I am planning to get the 5D III and eventually a couple of Zeiss lenses. Given this information, I'm debating whether I'll buy the 5D III or get a used 5D II for landscape work with the Zeiss 21/2.8.
p.2 #9 · No interchangeable focusing screens for 5D3
SeverianTL wrote:
[That can't be the real reason. After all, the 1DX has the very same type of transmissive LCD overlay on its viewfinder as the 5D3 and the 7D but it also has interchangeable focus screens. Why? Just another way for Canon to keep the 1D special? It makes some sense if the only use for alternate focus screens were grid lines and such. And I suppose it makes sense for the limited viewfinder of a crop camera. OTOH, Canon has got to know that a lot of "full framers" use manual focus. Strange.
I wondered if it was a sign to Samyang, Zeiss, etc. to get their scurfy manually focusing paws off of Canon's 35/85/100 lens market.
has, at 6:35, a shot taken through the viewfinder showing the AF point spread. In my opinion it's not wide enough to obviate focus-and-recompose.
If Canon has got the 5D Mk III screen good enough to focus at f/2, and improved its "parabola", and the AF points are accurately placed at the boxes, I'll call that good enough for my own purposes. I don't want or need to manually focus at f/1.2 or f/1.4. I *do* need to be able to manually focus f/3.5 lenses away from AF points, mounted on a tripod. I *do* want to manually focus my ZE 100mm f/2 on the screen.
Mar 02, 2012 at 10:50 PM
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p.2 #11 · No interchangeable focusing screens for 5D3
mogud wrote:
I guess the designers/accountants at Canon don't want potential buyers of this camera to purchase any of Canon's TS-E lenses which are all manual focus. In the case of owners of these lenses, the decision to purchase this camera might be questioned and probably abandoned because of the lack of interchangeabilty of screens.
I am planning to get the 5D III and eventually a couple of Zeiss lenses. Given this information, I'm debating whether I'll buy the 5D III or get a used 5D II for landscape work with the Zeiss 21/2.8.
I think it should have the possibility to change screens.
But I don't think your statement is really accurate. Those lenses you write about are very slow lenses so they will probably be ok for MF. I can't really see any screen that would improve it a lot with those lenses. Most of the people changing to the S-screen for MF do it because of the fast MF lenses
p.2 #12 · No interchangeable focusing screens for 5D3
bobbytan wrote:
I don't know of any other "professional" SLR or DSLR with a non-interchangeable focussing screen. I am currently using the grid screen (Ee-D) on my 5D II. I am guessing the new body that Canon will release later in the year will be a real pro body with interchangeable screens.
The semi transparent LCD screen seen in the 7D will replaces the swapping of a focusing screen in the 5DIII. It allows for features such as 2 axis level, active focusing points and grids to be seen in the viewfinder. Also grids can be selected for the Live View LCD on the camera back. However, it won't simulate the viewfinder getting really dark with an f8 lens and an Ex-S focusing screen.
p.2 #13 · No interchangeable focusing screens for 5D3
Live View Manual Focus with Magic Lantern firmware-addon(Magic zoom, Focus Peaking) works wonders on 5D II, 50D, 60D, t2i, t3i bodies. If they can work on the 5D III firmware(they still couldn't do the 7D however), I am sure the developers will add to the list too. Just another option.
p.2 #14 · No interchangeable focusing screens for 5D3
UCSB wrote:
The reason people are concerned (and rightly so) is that on the 7D (similar setup to 5DIII) you can not add special focusing screens for large aperture lenses. When you use the 7D's viewfinder with say an f/1.4 lens you are only seeing something like an f/4 equivalent view. So when you try to focus manually at f/1.4, for example, it is impossible to get the focus correct. You do your best, but when you look at the images they are not correct; focus will be all over the place. There is nothing you can do except focus using live view on the LCD. The viewfinder is worthless. This removes one key capability (manual focus) from the DSLR making it a less attractive product for many. On the 5DII you are considering, you can purchase a second focusing screen that is designed for focusing these large aperture lenses. ...Show more →
Seems more like f/5.6 at least to me. Plus you get the weird effect where it seem like every single shot is coming out with perfect AF when half of them are way off so even when using AF you have no clue that something has gone wrong.
p.2 #15 · No interchangeable focusing screens for 5D3
mogud wrote:
I guess the designers/accountants at Canon don't want potential buyers of this camera to purchase any of Canon's TS-E lenses which are all manual focus. In the case of owners of these lenses, the decision to purchase this camera might be questioned and probably abandoned because of the lack of interchangeabilty of screens.
I am planning to get the 5D III and eventually a couple of Zeiss lenses. Given this information, I'm debating whether I'll buy the 5D III or get a used 5D II for landscape work with the Zeiss 21/2.8.
If you use TSE lenses for tilt, you will be using Live View 5-10X, not a viewfinder. There is no way there is enough resolution in any viewfinder for fine adjusting tilt and focus at larger tilt angles (camera close to the ground). Angle finders don't work for this purpose either because they either don't magnify enough, or only allow viewing the center of the image after magnification, and TSE lenses require checking foreground Vs background sharpness.
Magnified Live View is the way to fine adjust tilt.
Mike K
p.2 #16 · No interchangeable focusing screens for 5D3
Mike K wrote:
If you use TSE lenses for tilt, you will be using Live View 5-10X, not a viewfinder. There is no way there is enough resolution in any viewfinder for fine adjusting tilt and focus at larger tilt angles (camera close to the ground). Angle finders don't work for this purpose either because they either don't magnify enough, or only allow viewing the center of the image after magnification, and TSE lenses require checking foreground Vs background sharpness.
Magnified Live View is the way to fine adjust tilt.
Mike K
yeah for T&S liveview is the way to go, it's like an old large ground glass view screen on a 4x5, only better
p.2 #17 · No interchangeable focusing screens for 5D3
The LCD overlay feature is only indirectly related to the focusing screen.
Canon's logic is this: the LCD overlay eliminates the need for a grid-type focusing screen. Most users will not require a super-precision matte screen. So why make the focusing screen interchangeable in future non-flagship bodies? Now, I'm not saying that this is correct thinking--I am merely pointing out the likely reasoning behind their decision.
For manual focus users, the focusing screen is an issue, but it's not insurmountable--after all, people have installed custom screens in the 7D.
For those, such as myself, who primarily rely on AF but tend to shoot with fast primes like the EF 24/1.4L, 35/1.4L, 50/1.2L, 50/1.4, 85/1.2, 85/1.8, 200/1.8L, etc., not having the super-precision matte can be irritating because we would like to be able to better visualize the bokeh of the scene in the optical viewfinder. It's not really about using the viewfinder to get accurate focus (the Eg-S still isn't able to show critical focus at 100% crop anyway; a split prism screen would be better). The lack of an interchangeable screen is more problematic for us, because we are still using EF lenses, and changing to a super-precision screen will make metering inaccurate due to the lack of a custom menu option to compensate.
That said, I'm still unconcerned. As much as I like the Eg-S, it's really not THAT much better than the Eg-A. The difference is really not as radical as one might be led to believe. MF shooters have already found ways to work around the stock screen on the 7D, and a variety of split prisms and alternative screens are available should they desire. It's really not that big a deal. In my view, what one gains from having the LCD overlay more than offsets the hassle of unscrewing a plate and installing a custom screen if one so chooses.
p.2 #18 · No interchangeable focusing screens for 5D3
wickerprints wrote:
The LCD overlay feature is only indirectly related to the focusing screen.
Canon's logic is this: the LCD overlay eliminates the need for a grid-type focusing screen. Most users will not require a super-precision matte screen. So why make the focusing screen interchangeable in future non-flagship bodies? Now, I'm not saying that this is correct thinking--I am merely pointing out the likely reasoning behind their decision.
For manual focus users, the focusing screen is an issue, but it's not insurmountable--after all, people have installed custom screens in the 7D.
For those, such as myself, who primarily rely on AF but tend to shoot with fast primes like the EF 24/1.4L, 35/1.4L, 50/1.2L, 50/1.4, 85/1.2, 85/1.8, 200/1.8L, etc., not having the super-precision matte can be irritating because we would like to be able to better visualize the bokeh of the scene in the optical viewfinder. It's not really about using the viewfinder to get accurate focus (the Eg-S still isn't able to show critical focus at 100% crop anyway; a split prism screen would be better). The lack of an interchangeable screen is more problematic for us, because we are still using EF lenses, and changing to a super-precision screen will make metering inaccurate due to the lack of a custom menu option to compensate.
That said, I'm still unconcerned. As much as I like the Eg-S, it's really not THAT much better than the Eg-A. The difference is really not as radical as one might be led to believe. MF shooters have already found ways to work around the stock screen on the 7D, and a variety of split prisms and alternative screens are available should they desire. It's really not that big a deal. In my view, what one gains from having the LCD overlay more than offsets the hassle of unscrewing a plate and installing a custom screen if one so chooses....Show more →
metering goes weird though without an in cam function to account for it
p.2 #19 · No interchangeable focusing screens for 5D3
wickerprints wrote:
The LCD overlay feature is only indirectly related to the focusing screen.
Canon's logic is this: the LCD overlay eliminates the need for a grid-type focusing screen. Most users will not require a super-precision matte screen. So why make the focusing screen interchangeable in future non-flagship bodies? Now, I'm not saying that this is correct thinking--I am merely pointing out the likely reasoning behind their decision.
For manual focus users, the focusing screen is an issue, but it's not insurmountable--after all, people have installed custom screens in the 7D.
For those, such as myself, who primarily rely on AF but tend to shoot with fast primes like the EF 24/1.4L, 35/1.4L, 50/1.2L, 50/1.4, 85/1.2, 85/1.8, 200/1.8L, etc., not having the super-precision matte can be irritating because we would like to be able to better visualize the bokeh of the scene in the optical viewfinder. It's not really about using the viewfinder to get accurate focus (the Eg-S still isn't able to show critical focus at 100% crop anyway; a split prism screen would be better). The lack of an interchangeable screen is more problematic for us, because we are still using EF lenses, and changing to a super-precision screen will make metering inaccurate due to the lack of a custom menu option to compensate.
That said, I'm still unconcerned. As much as I like the Eg-S, it's really not THAT much better than the Eg-A. The difference is really not as radical as one might be led to believe. MF shooters have already found ways to work around the stock screen on the 7D, and a variety of split prisms and alternative screens are available should they desire. It's really not that big a deal. In my view, what one gains from having the LCD overlay more than offsets the hassle of unscrewing a plate and installing a custom screen if one so chooses. ...Show more → skibum5 wrote:
metering goes weird though without an in cam function to account for it
I already said that.
MF shooters using lenses that don't have electronic aperture control through the body already have to cope with metering issues, so they don't really care if a custom screen affects metering further. Those of us who do use EF lenses are already aware of the way in which focusing screens affect the metering without a custom function to compensate.
Just another way for Canon to keep the 1D special? It makes some sense if the only use for alternate focus screens were grid lines and such. And I suppose it makes sense for the limited viewfinder of a crop camera. OTOH, Canon has got to know that a lot of "full framers" use manual focus. Strange.