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Archive 2011 · Time to ask the pros for advice ...

  
 
dortizphoto
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p.5 #1 · Time to ask the pros for advice ...


Thanks Brian. I'll be taking my 24-70 tonight because if I have to shoot groups of people I'll have to back up using the 50 and that will minimize my flash effectiveness (fall off). Gosh, my wife is right, sometimes I shop compulsively only to regret it later on. I should just man-up and carry that 24-70 brick whenever I shoot.

Thanks again my friend.
Dave



Dec 31, 2011 at 08:48 PM
BrianO
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p.5 #2 · Time to ask the pros for advice ...


dortizphoto wrote:
...Gosh, my wife is right, sometimes I shop compulsively only to regret it later on.


Been there, done that.

Have fun tonight.

Happy New Year / Prospero Aņo Nuevo, everyone.



Dec 31, 2011 at 08:55 PM
wbunnell
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p.5 #3 · Time to ask the pros for advice ...


I agree with no filter also, unless needed to help protect against the elements.

Funny story though on reselling a lens. A prospective buyer absolutely freaked on me when i said I never used a filter. Never mind the fact that nothing was wrong with the front element. Just the thought that I dared use it without a filter was a turn off for him and a deal breaker.



Dec 31, 2011 at 09:04 PM
anthonygh
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p.5 #4 · Time to ask the pros for advice ...


My NYear suggestion is...buy the filter...do as many tests as you need...and either keep it or sell it on. Personally, I have no evidence that a filter causes IQ problems (from my experience I must add)...and companies that charge a fortune for filters are taking the p**s.....I strongly recommend KOOD....a long established company specializing in optics and glass making selling sensibly priced filters (probably as a sideline).

My god...when one thinks of what is involved in producing the ultimate artefact (a print in my opinion), the filter is a small fraction of the causal chain. Even for dedicated pixel peepers it it a minor element.....



Dec 31, 2011 at 09:10 PM
dortizphoto
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p.5 #5 · Time to ask the pros for advice ...


Well, I took my trusted and loyal (but heavy) 24-70 f/2.8L tonight instead of the newly purchased 50 f/1.4. Mainly because I needed the wider capabilities and since folks were dancing and moving all over the place, the faster zoom-lock. The catch is I had placed a Canon UV Cristal Cut 77mm filter on that lens I had totally forgotten about, and get this .... I noticed no degradation in image quality at all. I'll be posting a few once I finish sifting through them.

Now for the decision ... do I keep the 50mm f/1.4 prime, oe send it back to BH despite nothing being wrong with it.

Cheers,
Dave



Dec 31, 2011 at 11:31 PM
dw310
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p.5 #6 · Time to ask the pros for advice ...


anthonygh wrote:
Huummmm...does that mean you have 99 L lenses and one other? Or 198 L lenses and 2 other?




Jan 01, 2012 at 12:34 AM
stanj
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p.5 #7 · Time to ask the pros for advice ...


So now it's about if we see any degradation? Earlier you said you arent looking for protection, just an improvement. Do you see an improvement? I think about the only consensus in this thread is that you won't get an improvement.


Jan 01, 2012 at 01:17 AM
dwweiche
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p.5 #8 · Time to ask the pros for advice ...




Whenever a friend or acquaintance is looking to get into dSLR's and asks what to do about filters, I always start with a big inhale and long sigh before continuing...



Jan 01, 2012 at 01:48 AM
BrianO
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p.5 #9 · Time to ask the pros for advice ...


dortizphoto wrote:
...I didn't notice any degradation in image quality (IMHO) ...Thoughts?


Not exactly demanding conditions. Bright sunlight striking the surface of the filter at an angle would be a test of the possibility of IQ degredation. A dim room using flash? Not so much.

And note that I said possibility of IQ degredation; most of the time it won't happen. But if the conditions are just right...



Jan 01, 2012 at 01:51 AM
BrianO
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p.5 #10 · Time to ask the pros for advice ...


Nice shots, by the way. I especially like #2; you really captured the ambiance and the mood of the people.


Jan 01, 2012 at 02:00 AM
dortizphoto
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p.5 #11 · Time to ask the pros for advice ...


Thanks Brian. I appreciate the kind words my friend.

I'm only trying to say I had a filter on for these captures and nothing negative (that I can tell) has happened. I don't think it made the images better or worse. That's all I'm trying to covey in this post.

Thanks again Brian.
Dave



Jan 01, 2012 at 02:17 AM
Gunzorro
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p.5 #12 · Time to ask the pros for advice ...


Dave -- First off, that Hoya is a very good filter -- very high quality and the equal of the B+W line (both of which are my favored filter brands).

On the issue of multi-coated UV filter use, put me down as comfortably in the middle.

"Protecting" is a very wide umbrella! Yes, I would use a filter for ocean spray (generally, I wouldn't want my camera or lens in salt spray!), but there are other reasons filters make sense as protection.

Some "L" lenses need a front filter to complete the weather sealing of the lens. Otherwise, they are only sealed at the breach.

I tend to use filters as the default, but always remove them if possible -- meaning I'm certain of calm conditions with no debris or liquids. As such, some lenses of mine (usually the more expensive, harder to replace type) like the 24-70L, keep a filter on all the time because (like your examples) it is an "event lens" -- with potenial fingerprints, other photographer's gear banging into mine, some liquids of the partiers, etc.

If you keep a filter on a lens you don't use very often, after six months or a year carefully examine it and you'll see a haze or film from airbourne pollutants (very easy to see on PL filters) -- that would be on your front element instead of the front of the filter. Personally, I prefer to clean or replace a filter compared to dealing with lens element cleaning.

Having said that, I prefer to use a lenshood with cap without filter whenever possible -- especially for less expensive lenses like the 50/1.4. I really like aftermarket screw-in metal hoods with an external lens cap at the end of the hood (only for longer lenses, 35mm and longer). I've bought several timeson eBay from this company: heavystar -- US and fast shipping -- here's a hood that will fit the 50/1.4 http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Metal-Standard-58mm-Screw-in-Lens-Hood-Cap-/360412004287?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53ea3abfbf

Any time I do twilight or night shots, or pretty well any time the camera is on tripod, I remove any filter. But if I'm banging around, especially in dark places, I like a filter on the lens. Hoods are a bit awkward though, as I tend to keep them on the lenses, making them much longer and wider.

I've never had a front (or rear) element damaged in 30+ years of photography. But I have bought or seen plenty that have had front nicks, gouges and cleaning scratches on the front and rear elements! I've never broken a filter on the lens (dropped and broken a couple filters though!), and I've never dinged the filter threads with a filter in place.

Like you, I've never seen daylight images degraded by high quality filters. Depending on the filter, there could be more apparent flare/halo/ghosting of specular highlights or light sources in night scenes. But for day use, I don't see a problem.

All my lenses have multi-coated UV filters, whether they are used often or not.

Regarding lens quality comparison between EF 50/1.4 and 24-70L, I am sure you'll find the 50 to have better IQ. But the 24-70 is no slouch and is pretty close, although 2 stops slower. At 5.6 to 8.0, they will be pretty similar IQ. At 2.8 to 4.0, the 50 will beat the 24-70.

And about your concern for DOF, I find using the 24-70 at f/5.0 to 5.6 at events and posed groups gives me about all the DOF I need get the shot. My "go-to" setting on Manual is 1/50, f/5, ISO 800-1600 with flash for indoor shooting. The 50 would behave similarly and you should be safe at 5.6. I don't think you'll need f/8. Try f/4.5 to f/5.6.

Hope this helps -- and thanks for the thread and your sample pictures.




Jan 01, 2012 at 02:24 AM
dortizphoto
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p.5 #13 · Time to ask the pros for advice ...


Hi Gunzorro, thank you for your time and most informative post. When I first started this thread, I had no idea the filter discussion was such a heated issue. I believe someone wrote, "What a way to start the New Year, another filter thread" or something along those lines. If my thread has offended anyone, then I apologize for this.

The only reason I purchased the Canon 50 mm prime is because my 1D3 with the 24-70 attached is not only HUGE but also quite heavy. It is and has been my lens of choice when I cover photojournalist assignments for two reasons. 1. My one and only other lens is the 70-200 f/2.8L and 2. My 24-70 f/2.8L lens is very versatile. In essence I have coverage from 24-200mm with just those two lenses.

However, what happens when I'm not on an assignment and just want to take the camera out around the house, or park or just to have it with me to practice and/or sharpen my skill set? Nothing. The camera sits in my bag until until my next assignment because it's too much camera with that lens to lug around "all the time."

I quickly found out yesterday afternoon when I went to the City's old historic district and wanted to capture some nice architecture. I had the 50 on and boy was I missing my 24-70. Then someone made the comment that all those images from the city were stopped down to 6.3 , so I could have yielded the same results with my 24-70. Thus, the 50mm was a foolish purchase since I already cover that range with my 24-70. I'm also not certain the 50 would have performed as well as the 24-70 in low light conditions focus wise.

So yes, the thred started as a filter question for protection, but also piggybacked on an IQ question if a filter was used. Then it also ventured into justifying my (what I know consider and feel guilty about) purchase of this 50. Heck, I could probably have picked up a nice soft box for the price I paid for ths lens.

Decisions - decisions.

Happy New Year Gunzorro, and everyone.

Regards,
Dave



Jan 01, 2012 at 09:16 AM
jcolwell
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p.5 #14 · Time to ask the pros for advice ...


dortizphoto wrote:
... justifying my (what I know consider and feel guilty about) purchase of this 50. Heck, I could probably have picked up a nice soft box for the price I paid for ths lens.


Probably, yes. OTOH, the soft box can't do f/1.4, nor can the 24-70L.



Jan 01, 2012 at 11:06 AM
goosemang
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p.5 #15 · Time to ask the pros for advice ...


InternetJunky wrote:
I'm always curious what sort of trauma people believe their filters will save their lens from. Chances are that if something is hitting your lens hard enough to damage the front element, some thin little piece of glass in front isn't going to stop anything. In fact, I imagine there are a lot of scenarios where the shattering filter will do more damage to the front element than whatever is breaking the filter.



here's my 24-105 that was saved by a hoya pro1d




no damage to the lens itself at all. it would have probably cost me as much to ship it to and from canon than it did to replace the filter. i bought another one before i even got this one off the front of the lens.


i also have the 50 1.4 and keep a good hoya mrc on it. i used to keep a cheap filter on it, but i got tons of ghosting at night. a good filter got rid of that. in the 2% of the time i'm shooting where the good filter would be detrimental, i just take it off.




Jan 01, 2012 at 11:29 AM
dortizphoto
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p.5 #16 · Time to ask the pros for advice ...


@ JC: I get the point, well taken. ;-)
@Goose: Yikes!! I'm sold my friend, I'm sold.

Dave



Jan 01, 2012 at 11:39 AM
stanj
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p.5 #17 · Time to ask the pros for advice ...


InternetJunky wrote:
I'm always curious what sort of trauma people believe their filters will save their lens from. Chances are that if something is hitting your lens hard enough to damage the front element, some thin little piece of glass in front isn't going to stop anything. In fact, I imagine there are a lot of scenarios where the shattering filter will do more damage to the front element than whatever is breaking the filter.

goosemang wrote:
here's my 24-105 that was saved by a hoya pro1d

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/wolfieieie/4676d813.jpg

no damage to the lens itself at all. it would have probably cost me as much to ship it to and from canon than it did to replace the filter. i bought another one before i even got this one off the front of the lens.

i also have the 50 1.4 and keep a good hoya mrc on it. i used to keep a cheap filter on it, but i got tons of ghosting at night. a good filter got rid of that. in the 2% of the time i'm shooting
...Show more

Did you use a hood?



Jan 01, 2012 at 11:46 AM
dortizphoto
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p.5 #18 · Time to ask the pros for advice ...


If it was a projectile that did this, I doubt a hood would have saved him. He's right though, I'd rather my filter look that way than the front element of my $1,500 lens.


Jan 01, 2012 at 11:54 AM
goosemang
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p.5 #19 · Time to ask the pros for advice ...


hi

yes, had the hood on. i was shooting in a manufacturing facility, had it hanging on my shoulder and was backing up to get out of the way of a worker. backed it right into this thin protruding metal bar. almost had a heart attack when i first saw it

i mean i can understand shooting without it, and that's cool if people want to. i guess it depends what your priorities are w/r/t your photographs. for me, whatever IQ trade off may exist is worth it for the protection. i mean if i was shooting on a tripod at night with minimal chance of issues, yeah, i'd probably leave it off. but i've got my camera hanging on my shoulder a lot of the time, and while i love hoods for protection against most "bump and grind", i stick with the filter too



Jan 01, 2012 at 12:06 PM
goosemang
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p.5 #20 · Time to ask the pros for advice ...


also, they're good for keeping beer off your front element

trust me



Jan 01, 2012 at 12:07 PM
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