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Archive 2011 · Initial NEX 7 impressions from a NEX 5N owner

  
 
Smiert Spionam
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · Initial NEX 7 impressions from a NEX 5N owner


douglasf13 wrote:
Noise is dependent on light level, and you cant compare cameras that aren't in identical light. I could show you multiple shots at Iso 3200 from the same camera in various light levels, and the amount of noise would vary drastically, depending on the scene.


I agree.

I find test shots like those in the official dpreview reviews to be of only marginal utility in assessing how a camera will perform in real use (though they do give you a benchmark point of comparison between different cameras). That's because those shots are done in controlled light, with overall even illumination. That's fairly close to some uses (sports shots in flat daylight, for example, when you might crank the ISO to freeze action with longer lenses), but it's not at all reflective of how I'll actually use the camera. I tend to use high ISOs shooting live music in contrasty, dark spaces with very low color temperatures. In those circumstances, it's not unusual to get noise performance that's up to two stops worse than what you see in typical test shots.

Add to this the issue of how dependent noise is on proper exposure, and comparisons between random high-ISO shots from different cameras quickly become pretty useless.



Dec 28, 2011 at 11:50 AM
ontime
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · Initial NEX 7 impressions from a NEX 5N owner


Smiert Spionam wrote:
I agree.

I find test shots like those in the official dpreview reviews to be of only marginal utility in assessing how a camera will perform in real use (though they do give you a benchmark point of comparison between different cameras). That's because those shots are done in controlled light, with overall even illumination. That's fairly close to some uses (sports shots in flat daylight, for example, when you might crank the ISO to freeze action with longer lenses), but it's not at all reflective of how I'll actually use the camera. I tend to use high ISOs shooting
...Show more

Yeah, but you know the high ISO performance of the camera relative to another camera. Given a situation where camera A is better than camera B in a scene with "controlled light with overall even illumination," shouldn't camera A be similarly better than camera B in a scene with "contrasty, dark spaces with very low color temperatures"? The point of comparison should be enough for assessment given you own one of the cameras in the comparison or own a camera with the same sensor (and the comparison is RAW).

Does noise performance between cameras radically change based on scene properties? I don't think it does. I could be wrong. For example, if I get "1 stop" better performance at ISO 1600 in an evenly illuminated scene, don't I keep that "1 stop" of performance advantage at ISO 1600 in a poorly illuminated, contrasty scene?

Edit: However, I agree that comparisons must be done in the same light, same ISO, etc, in order to extrapolate. My questions are about extrapolation.



Dec 28, 2011 at 03:05 PM
douglasf13
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · Initial NEX 7 impressions from a NEX 5N owner


The problem with dpreview's reviews, among others, is that they don't use the same exposure for every camera. Plus, I'm not sure how consistent their lighting is. Imaging Resource has issues with inconsistent lighting.

Either way, you have to at least shoot both cameras in the same scene. You can't take a pic from dpreview at ISO 3200 and then compare it to your pic at ISO 3200 that you took at home.



Dec 28, 2011 at 07:16 PM
artur5
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · Initial NEX 7 impressions from a NEX 5N owner


philber wrote:
I have a Biogon 21. I tried it on my NEX5, and the results were terrible. But I stuck with it, hoping that they might be better with newer designs. They are indeed better with my 5N, but far from good. As others have shown, if we are to believe it, that the 7 is worse than the 5N, I would expect the Biogon to be far worse than the example shown here. Probably because most of my shots are at infinity. Just my $0.02.


Those samples aren't terrible, but far from good either.
Looking at the corners though, even if the color vigneting is strong, I don't see much detail smear. What do you think ?. Do I need new glasses ?
We don't know at which distance the pictures were taken. Even if it were at the MFD of 0.5 mtr. there shouldn't be much difference with infinity. The Biogon G 21 has a back focal distance of 12mm.. The angle of incidence in the corners of a NEX sensor would change from 42.7 at infinity to 40.5 at 0.5 mtr. Hardly noticeable in real world, I'd say,.



Dec 29, 2011 at 07:33 AM
wfrank
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · Initial NEX 7 impressions from a NEX 5N owner


artur5 wrote:
Those samples aren't terrible, but far from good either.
Looking at the corners though, even if the color vigneting is strong, I don't see much detail smear. What do you think ?. Do I need new glasses ?
We don't know at which distance the pictures were taken. Even if it were at the MFD of 0.5 mtr. there shouldn't be much difference with infinity. The Biogon G 21 has a back focal distance of 12mm.. The angle of incidence in the corners of a NEX sensor would change from 42.7 at infinity to 40.5 at 0.5 mtr. Hardly
...Show more

Sry for my ignorance. What examples are you talking about? I am still looking for G 21 examples as I have not ruled out that lens completely for my 5N. Thanks.



Dec 29, 2011 at 05:55 PM
douglasf13
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · Initial NEX 7 impressions from a NEX 5N owner


Well, in that recent Zeiss wide angle paper from Dr. Nasse, they specifically show how the mtfs of the ZM 21/2.8 are negatively affected by non-optimized digital sensor filters. I can only imagine that the Contax G 21 would be worse, since its back focal distance is even shorter than the ZM.

That being said, I've never used either lens, so take that with a grain of salt.



Dec 29, 2011 at 08:12 PM
philber
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · Initial NEX 7 impressions from a NEX 5N owner


wfrank wrote:
If you want samples, I can probably come up with something with G21 on 5N, wfrank. Is that of interest?



Dec 30, 2011 at 05:58 AM
ulrikft2
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · Initial NEX 7 impressions from a NEX 5N owner


Tried the Nex-7 today with my CV 35/1.2 v2

This camera is great. The viewfinder is amazing, the responsiveness is just.. amazing and the ergonomics are such an improvement over the nex-5.

I think I just have to get one..



Dec 30, 2011 at 08:14 AM
wfrank
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · Initial NEX 7 impressions from a NEX 5N owner


philber wrote:
Yes please Philber. I've seen images, but usually on subjects with varying distances within the shot (ie hard to judge corner degradation etc)



Dec 30, 2011 at 08:22 AM
Lotusm50
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · Initial NEX 7 impressions from a NEX 5N owner


ulrikft2 wrote:
Tried the Nex-7 today with my CV 35/1.2 v2

This camera is great. The viewfinder is amazing, the responsiveness is just.. amazing and the ergonomics are such an improvement over the nex-5.

I think I just have to get one..



These seem to keep cropping up everywhere. I really want to get my hands on mine, but Amazon.com is still completely clueless on when they may get them. This is becoming the first real black mark in my book for Amazon.com. I've been quite pleased with them in the past. Maybe Amazon.com just isn't the place for photographic pre-orders. I would assume that this is a lesson Amazon.com doesn't want its customers to learn.




Dec 30, 2011 at 11:47 AM
ulrikft2
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · Initial NEX 7 impressions from a NEX 5N owner


Lotusm50 wrote:
These seem to keep cropping up everywhere. I really want to get my hands on mine, but Amazon.com is still completely clueless on when they may get them. This is becoming the first real black mark in my book for Amazon.com. I've been quite pleased with them in the past. Maybe Amazon.com just isn't the place for photographic pre-orders. I would assume that this is a lesson Amazon.com doesn't want its customers to learn.



I could not hold back and just bought one locally today.



Dec 30, 2011 at 01:53 PM
sebboh
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · Initial NEX 7 impressions from a NEX 5N owner


ulrikft2 wrote:
I could not hold back and just bought one locally today.


sweet! lookin forward to pics.



Dec 30, 2011 at 02:00 PM
h00ligan
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · Initial NEX 7 impressions from a NEX 5N owner


Lotusm50 wrote:
]

These seem to keep cropping up everywhere. I really want to get my hands on mine, but Amazon.com is still completely clueless on when they may get them. This is becoming the first real black mark in my book for Amazon.com. I've been quite pleased with them in the past. Maybe Amazon.com just isn't the place for photographic pre-orders. I would assume that this is a lesson Amazon.com doesn't want its customers to learn.



Tey were the first to ship me a fuji x100 followed by a ny store. I don't think it's amazon, I think it's Sony.



Dec 30, 2011 at 02:02 PM
philber
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · Initial NEX 7 impressions from a NEX 5N owner


Congratulations, Ulrik!


Dec 30, 2011 at 03:33 PM
Nanh
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · Initial NEX 7 impressions from a NEX 5N owner


wfrank wrote:
Sry for my ignorance. What examples are you talking about? I am still looking for G 21 examples as I have not ruled out that lens completely for my 5N. Thanks.


You finally gave me enough motivation to upload my tests comparing G21, Vivitar 24mm f/2, Pen F 20mm f/3.5 and the kit zoom on NEX-5N

Results can be seen here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31134203@N07/sets/72157628638754315/

I won't upload the center crops as they are all very similar and pretty good(Apart from the Vivitar perhaps). G21 is sharp at f/2.8 but a bit less contrasty. From f/4 the center is pretty much perfect.

My conclusion is that G21 beats Pen F, Vivitar at all apertures. It has better corner than the kit at F4. At 5.6 and 8 they are pretty even, maybe the kit is a bit better in the extreme corner.
Very remarkable is also the complete absence of CA. The kit has a little CA, Pen and Vivitar a lot more.

All samples are raw processed in lightroom without sharpening. Focus was on the center of the frame at approximately the same distance as the corner(about 500 meters). The tests are not done within a short time frame so the exposure and white balance are quite different.

But(a big but), I noticed after the test that my G21 is decentered. The crops I uploaded are from the best corner, top left. Bottom left is marginally worse, while the right side is much worse, at least wide open. I hope this is not the result of me dropping the lens twice. Ouch!

Today I had the chance to test 3 other G21s(btw. this shop in Shanghai has loads of G21 but was unwilling to sell any below 5000 Yuan/500 GBP):

G21 Decentering by huan..., on Flickr

Wide open crops from left to right:
My lens top right
Test lens top right
My lens top left
Test lens top left

While the test lens has a more even degree of corner smearing, to my surprise my lens is actually much better in the top left corner! The smearing is probably due to astigimatism. I was focusing on the corner and couldn't get it sharper. The other 2 lenses were similar, none could reach the sharpness of my top left corner. I have also tested multiple adapters.

I am not sure anymore whether I prefer a not decentered lens, especially at the current price. With my lens at least I can consciously make 1 corner very sharp, when needed by flipping the camera upside down

Also, the right edge sharpens up nicely at 5.6 and 8. By f11 pretty much everything is sharp.

I have also tested the color cast briefly. I was pointing the lens at a florescent lamp so the illumination is not perfectly even.

First normally exposed:

G21 Vignetting by huan..., on Flickr
And exposure adjusted in lightroom so that the center is just about to clip:

G21 Vignetting Exposure +1 by huan..., on Flickr

Yes, there is color cast, but barely noticable in real pictures:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31134203@N07/sets/72157628639303893/
All JPGs stright from Nex-5N. I never noticed color cast in any of my pics so far so will not bothered to corner fix it. Also, I kind of like the strong vignetting.

Overall, I think it's a great lens with the famous zeiss contrast. Although overall maybe worse in the corners than the kit at 5.6 and 8, it is 1 stop faster. On nex-5n it has became my most used lens. Actually it's the reason I bought the 5n instead of waiting for the 7.



Dec 30, 2011 at 03:42 PM
inglis
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · Initial NEX 7 impressions from a NEX 5N owner


Nanh,
Thanks much for this helpful comparison.
Are the jpgs with the Contax G 21mm better than the raws?
You might want to link this to the Very Best Wides for Nex 5n discussion,
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1063956/13



Dec 30, 2011 at 10:11 PM
wfrank
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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · Initial NEX 7 impressions from a NEX 5N owner


Thanks Nanh, appreciate your post! Any chance for a full scene shot of both the battery (?) and the outdoor scene on Flickr to put it in perspective?

In my case I wont (or seldom) do landscaping and therefor the midframe is the most important part and corner sharpness seem to be the main issue with the lens. I dont worry too much about the color fringing as I find it hard to spot, and when it appears - it would be easy to correct.

Main obstacle for the lens, however, is its price. At least twice that of the excellent G28 that it without any rangefinder degradation (that I can spot at least). 600+ (with clear defects) makes other alternatives look more interesting. But I still have to find an option that suit what I am willing to pay.



Dec 31, 2011 at 05:35 AM
djpapa
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p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · Initial NEX 7 impressions from a NEX 5N owner


anyone can tell NEX 7 is it possible to trigger(wireless) any external flash ?

thanks



Dec 31, 2011 at 05:54 AM
amplexis
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p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · Initial NEX 7 impressions from a NEX 5N owner


djpapa wrote:
anyone can tell NEX 7 is it possible to trigger(wireless) any external flash ?

thanks

acording to the NEX-7 manual: http://richardrook.nl/nex-7/nex-7manual_eng.pdf

wireless flash is supported



Dec 31, 2011 at 08:46 AM
ulrikft2
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p.4 #20 · p.4 #20 · Initial NEX 7 impressions from a NEX 5N owner


Sorry for the big files, no edit straight out of lightroom :

iso 100:

http://unixgen.com/~ulrikft/nex7/nex7.jpg

iso 6400:

http://unixgen.com/~ulrikft/nex7/nex7-3.jpg


iso 12800:

http://unixgen.com/~ulrikft/nex7/nex7-4.jpg



Dec 31, 2011 at 03:24 PM
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