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Archive 2011 · New 5D Mark 3 Rumors

Don Clary
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p.5 #1 · New 5D Mark 3 Rumors

There's nothing written in stone that when Canon introduces a 5D or 5DII model, that they can't do SIMPLE changes during the 3+ years of a model run They could have taken the same 8 outer focus points of the AF hardware module, and made them cross sensors. Charge $10 more and solve this problem. Canon could fix it easily and cheaply, but doesn't want to!

And with the slow frame rate of 5DII and 1DsIII, one could argue that full frame sensors have larger, heavier mirrors, and can't go fast. The 14 fps rate of the 1DX proves that argument is a lie.

Dec 06, 2011 at 08:22 PM

Trevor Sowers
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p.5 #2 · New 5D Mark 3 Rumors

I think you have all misunderstood me. I am simply saying that I would rather see a 9 point system rather than a more complex system like the 7D. I would like to see all the points work as well as the centre point though!

I find the centre point to be excellent even in low light and I mostly use centre point with any camera but when I do want the other points I wish they were better.

Dec 07, 2011 at 01:40 AM

David Baldwin
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p.5 #3 · New 5D Mark 3 Rumors

"I like that step back in 1D X to 18MP"

I suspect that the reduction in resolution to 18 MP was to allow the camera's other more exotic specifications to be realised. The 1D X will be a super Olympics camera, but lots of us out here would view a reduction in the 5D3 sensor resolution as a step back.

It wasn't so long ago on FM that I said I didn't need more resolution than my 40D could provide, now I am used to the 20+ mpx of the 5D2 I see a world of improvement. Yes, empty megapixel increase races between brands at the expence of quality are to be discouraged, but sensible and incremental resolution improvements can only be beneficial.

To me a 5D3 without a reasonable resolution and AF upgrade would make no sense. The 1D X will no doubt appeal to serious sports/pj photographers, but that shouldn't mean that studio/location photographers are expected to be happy with fewer pixels in the 5D3.

Dec 07, 2011 at 01:57 AM

skibum5
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p.5 #4 · New 5D Mark 3 Rumors

Dec 07, 2011 at 02:00 AM

Trevor Sowers
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p.5 #5 · New 5D Mark 3 Rumors

skibum5 wrote:
why? if you don't want to use the assists for the outer points or spot focus for any who says you have to?
if you don't want to adjust tracking, then why not just leave it be? nobody says you have to use all the options and what does it hurt to have more options for others? you don't want to bother with them then don't.

I really like how I can select a point with one click of the joystick, so as long as that simplicity was preserved then I'd be happy.

Dec 07, 2011 at 02:35 AM

Trevor Sowers
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p.5 #6 · New 5D Mark 3 Rumors

Dec 07, 2011 at 02:38 AM

Bones74
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p.5 #7 · New 5D Mark 3 Rumors

Trevor Sowers wrote:
Having more than one usable/reliable AF point doesn't exactly constitiute an action camera! I'm sure there are many portrait photographers who are sick of focusing and re-composing, for obvious reasons. A friend of mine has a 5Dmk2 and shoots a lot of children portraits. She's constantly bemoaning the fact she has to focus and recompose for many shots, granted it's partly because the little rugrats don't sit still for very long and she has to refocus constantly!

Nikon didnt seem to have a problem putting an excellent (51 point IIFC) AF system in the D700, so if Canon fail...Show more →

Edited on Dec 07, 2011 at 09:25 AM · View previous versions

Dec 07, 2011 at 04:04 AM

Jim Levitt
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p.5 #8 · New 5D Mark 3 Rumors

Trevor Sowers wrote:
Not everyone wants what you want. I think a simple AF system like they have now is best for portrait photographers and would rather see the AF improvements be applied to more cross type sensors and to speed up the AF response. I find the accuracy and simplicity of the existing system perfect. If you want an action camera buy one designed for that purpose.

I would buy TWO from Canon, but it doesn't exist! Where is the full-frame, semi-affordable Canon body, something to fill the same niche as the D700? Man, if the next version of the 5D still has the "one-point" AF system, and the long mirror blackout, Nikon won't have to do much to peel away another batch of photographers. At $6700, the 1DX is not the answer. There's got to be something more affordable that isn't so crippled in functionality as the 5D2. 18mp would be fine by me. It's the AF and metering systems that need to step up to contemporary competition.

Dec 07, 2011 at 04:12 AM

digitalbug30d
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p.5 #9 · New 5D Mark 3 Rumors

unless you print...30 mp on your monitor will look the same as 18...since my monitor is 1920x1080 that around 2mp( this is all it can display) am I wrong about this?

Dont hear anything of what a monitor can resolve..in terms if IQ/relation of the resolving power of a lens for example.Yeah dot pitch but the dots are not that small,when you can get them as small as a pixel of a sensor.then you would be able to tell 18mp from 30mp on a monitor. yes/no?

Dec 07, 2011 at 04:18 AM

alundeb
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p.5 #10 · New 5D Mark 3 Rumors

digitalbug30d wrote:
unless you print...30 mp on your monitor will look the same as 18...since my monitor is 1920x1080 that around 2mp( this is all it can display) am I wrong about this?

Dont hear anything of what a monitor can resolve..in terms if IQ/relation of the resolving power of a lens for example.Yeah dot pitch but the dots are not that small,when you can get them as small as a pixel of a sensor.then you would be able to tell 18mp from 30mp on a monitor. yes/no?

For monitor presentation, a resized image will always look nicer than a 1:1 representation from the sensor. This is mainly because of the resolution loss from the de-mosaic of the Bayer color filtered sensor array, but also becase a sharper image with higher resolution will give better micro contrast and less digital artifacts in fine details when resized.

I have found that for the finest quality monitor image possible, I will need to resize from an image with about 2.4 times the linear resolution of the monitor. For 1920 that will be a 12-15 MP sensor.

If we get 4K monitors tomorrow, we can benefit from sensors above 30 MP.

Dec 07, 2011 at 04:57 AM

KiboOst
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p.5 #11 · New 5D Mark 3 Rumors

For those about megapixels, here is a copy/paste of something I wrote on dpreview forum on a talk about low iso high resolution shooting.

There is a lot of users who don't care high iso and fps and want a pro bodie with high resolution, and IQ and DR optimize for slow low iso photography. This is where Canon failed with this merging idea. Merging because 1D become FF ? It doesn't merge two completely different markets, and give sport/PJ shooter an even more expensive tool without offering anything for LISS market (Low Iso Slow Shooters lol).

About resolution and lenses, more pixels will never get lower IQ, period ! Per pixel sharpness may not increase a lot, but per print you will allways win. More uninterpolated aliased pixels are allways better than less, interpolated sharper pixels. Remember we talk about large fine art print here !

Same for diffraction, it is a lense only variable, projecting same image on a more defined grid may not give more details, but on large print it will allways be better due to less or no interpolation and all aliasing/artefacts problems. And we talk about low iso, so no noise problem there. Make base iso at iso 25 or at least iso 50, better for DR, better for studio, etc.

For those saying we should go MF, I'm studying the switch for a few years, but lenses and accessories are just too limitating compared to 35mm offering, specialy from Canon/Nikon.

About bracketing, HDR, stitching etc, these are usefull technics and provide amazing quality yes. But keep in mind it doesn't fit all photography styles, when things are moving, for long exposure, etc. Not allways a solution.

Why a pro bodie ?

- 100% viewfinder. We have time to frame perfectly while shooting. Myself, I never crop my photos, never enough resolution, remember ?
- Integrated grip (don't add vibration with another interface on a tripod !). L brackets are mounted on the grip so each time you put on a tripod, a grip put new vibrations.
- AF, specialy in low light with ND filters.
- Customization, adapt all buttons layout to your style, shooting eyeless in the wild.
- robustness. Our bodies are treated like tools, not jewels !
- Sealing. Rain, dust etc ...
- Feeling ? After using a 1DsII for years, a 5D feel just like a toy...

My perfect camera ?

1Dx, 3fps, base ISO 25, 36mp, sensor and electronic optimized for low iso high DR.

I would buy it in a heartbreak to put all my Canon lenses and studio strobes accessories onto !

my 2cent

Dec 07, 2011 at 09:16 AM

M Vers
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p.5 #12 · New 5D Mark 3 Rumors

Trevor Sowers wrote:
I think you have all misunderstood me. I am simply saying that I would rather see a 9 point system rather than a more complex system like the 7D. I would like to see all the points work as well as the centre point though!

I find the centre point to be excellent even in low light and I mostly use centre point with any camera but when I do want the other points I wish they were better.

I agree that the outer points should be better but it would be a lot easier to understand your point if you hadn't of said "I find the accuracy and simplicity of the existing system perfect", which leads me to believe that you find the system, as it is, perfect, which it's so very clearly not...at least not for those who depend on outer focus points. Either way you cut it the point spread, or lack thereof, is another huge shortcoming, again especially for portraiture. All the points, as few as there are, are clustered right smack in the middle of the frame and don't allow the photographer to make good use of the thirds of the frame, particularly the outer portions. Now if the eight outer points were spaced out further and more strategically placed in the frame and if they worked nearly as well as the center point I bet you would hear a lot less complaining. Look how much further the 1DsIII's point spread is compared to the 5DII's (Courtesy of The Digital Picture)
5DII
http://media.the-digital-picture.com/Images/Other/Canon-EOS-1D-X-Digital-SLR-Camera/Focus-Points/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-II-Thirds-Grid.gif
1DsIII
http://media.the-digital-picture.com/Images/Other/Canon-EOS-1D-X-Digital-SLR-Camera/Focus-Points/Canon-EOS-1Ds-Mark-III-Thirds-Grid.gif

If Canon wants to continue their rash product differentiation mantra then they should at least give us a camera with usable outer AF points positioned in more useful portions of the frame.

Dec 07, 2011 at 10:55 AM

Bruce Sawle
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p.5 #13 · New 5D Mark 3 Rumors

KiboOst wrote:
For those about megapixels, here is a copy/paste of something I wrote on dpreview forum on a talk about low iso high resolution shooting.

There is a lot of users who don't care high iso and fps and want a pro bodie with high resolution, and IQ and DR optimize for slow low iso photography. This is where Canon failed with this merging idea. Merging because 1D become FF ? It doesn't merge two completely different markets, and give sport/PJ shooter an even more expensive tool without offering anything for LISS market (Low Iso Slow Shooters lol).

About resolution and lenses, more...Show more →

What's a Pro Bodie?

Dec 07, 2011 at 11:04 AM

Sharona
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p.5 #14 · New 5D Mark 3 Rumors

That particular poster is French. I'm sure if you put on your thinking cap you can figure out what he meant.....

Dec 07, 2011 at 11:20 AM

Ralph Conway
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p.5 #15 · New 5D Mark 3 Rumors

What's a Pro Bodie?

Good question. A pro body is what "pros" use to shoot.
So its nearly everything, that makes pictures.

I saw half a dozend pros switching from 1Ds MK III to 5D/5D MK II the last 5 years.
So 5D/MK II is pro. 1Ds MK III is not any longer. That is why Canon finished it. They where right.
Two dozend of "photographers" crying about it does not match thousends of "pros", purchasing 5D MK IIs.

I know "pros" who (still) do their jobs with D30s, D40s. Pro sports still do it with D1, D1 MKII up to D1 MK IV. And still 30D, 40D, 7D and even 5D (& MKII).
Pro is the shooter, not the body.

Hobby shooters "claim" what a pro body has to be.
The gear today anyway is so much better than we are as photographers ...
The question should be: Why there are still some professionals out, doing great pictures and making their life with it - while the gear is so outstanding painful?

Dec 07, 2011 at 11:37 AM

RobertLynn
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p.5 #16 · New 5D Mark 3 Rumors

The new 5d could be 35mp, 10 fps, 4 cf slots, built in wifi, ISO 1,000,000. 100 all f/1.4 cross type ad points, weather sealed to work in a volcano, hurricane or 100 leagues under the sea, and $2000 bundled with a 20-120 f/2.0 is lens, and you guys would find a reason to bitch.

Dec 07, 2011 at 11:41 AM

Ralph Conway
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p.5 #17 · New 5D Mark 3 Rumors

No Robert. THAT would amaze anybody here.
It would just be that 50 posters would say, the D800 handling feels much better and its more worthy to spend the money, even it is more expensive.

I do not know why Canon buyers always complain about their gear, while Nikonians ask what for they cry and buy the old stuff that is offered at horrible prices.

"Pros" do not mention. They shoot with what they have. r buy what they think they need.

Edited on Dec 07, 2011 at 11:54 AM · View previous versions

Dec 07, 2011 at 11:52 AM

M Vers
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p.5 #18 · New 5D Mark 3 Rumors

RobertLynn wrote:
The new 5d could be 35mp, 10 fps, 4 cf slots, built in wifi, ISO 1,000,000. 100 all f/1.4 cross type ad points, weather sealed to work in a volcano, hurricane or 100 leagues under the sea, and $2000 bundled with a 20-120 f/2.0 is lens, and you guys would find a reason to bitch.

Which is really a poor point to try to make considering the fact that 5DII is underspec'd in regards to AF. It's kind of like getting a burned steak at a restaurant then sending it back only to have the chef say "well even if I cooked it perfectly someone would have complained"--Kind of an asinine thing to say when the steak wasn't up to par in the first place. Point is there are legitimate things to complain about, and the 5DII's AF system is most definitely one of those things for many people.

Dec 07, 2011 at 11:52 AM

Ralph Conway
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p.5 #19 · New 5D Mark 3 Rumors

M Vers wrote:
Which is really a poor point to try to make considering the fact that 5DII is underspec'd in regards to AF. It's kind of like getting a burned steak at a restaurant then sending it back only to have the chef say "well even if I cooked it perfectly someone would have complained"--Kind of an asinine thing to say when the steak wasn't up to par in the first place.

I am shooting the 5D MK II since 2.5 years now. Never ever a camera made me making more money.
Never I could trust any camera more. I do not care about any "Chef". I try to do my business. Next year I have to shoot motorsport. For that 5D MK II is the wrong decision. There is only one choice. 1DS MK IV. 1DX will not be available or if, it will be to expensive. What Nikon does match it? What else camera?
I do not know which. Even there are many "Pros" out, shooting great pictures with different systems.

Dec 07, 2011 at 12:00 PM

M Vers
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p.5 #20 · New 5D Mark 3 Rumors

Ralph Conway wrote:
I am shooting the 5D MK II since 2.5 years now. Never ever a camera made me making more money.

And I'm sure there are other people out there making a whole lot more money than you are using even lesser equipment, but that's not the point of the discussion. The 5DII is a great camera for a lot of people, perhaps even a perfect camera for some, however the majority of the people I've spoken to within my field who use the camera on a day to day basis understand it does have massive shortcomings in regards to AF, more specifically it's outer points. In fact every single 5DII owner I know will not use the outer points in low light or when the shot absolutely needs to count--most of which stick to the center point and focus and recompose if need be. That says a lot. So if you believe it's OK for a company to implement an AF system in a $2600 body that performs on par, for the most part, with a $500 body then be my guest, but if you're using the 5DII as a one focus point body then you're really not qualified to speak for everyone else who depend on the rest. If it works for you, great, but keep in mind what works for you might not work for everyone else...and that doesn't make them complainers or lesser photographers.

Dec 07, 2011 at 12:20 PM

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