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Archive 2011 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?

michaelwatkins
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?

Assuming Sony Canada shortly follows the U.S. operation and finally lets us know they aren't shipping any NEX-7 to pre-order holders, I need to find a camera to host my M lenses for at least the next several months.

A good handling camera sounds like a natural fit for my disposition but I will be a heavy EVF user. Will that frustrate me? I'm a little troubled by the descriptions I've read of the EVF but assume it can't be much worse than the Fujifilm X100's EVF -- if someone has both and can draw a comparison I'd be grateful.

Does anyone have thoughts on what the used market holds for GXR camera and A12-M modules? Is demand regular enough that I can sell off the camera without a huge haircut in, say, three to six months time? Don't misunderstand me, I'm not keen on playing musical cameras... would much prefer that it grow on me and become a keeper, but it is nice to know there are options when one doesn't already have the confidence in a camera you can only get through ownership and use.

Will be looking forward to your image posts later Henrik; believe it or not I'd completely missed that the 28mm A12 module was 28mm effective field of view; that being the case I too would be interested in that module as an alternative to picking up another ZM lens at this point.

Nov 08, 2011 at 03:37 AM

Mitch Alland
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?

kosmoskatten wrote:
Atran; you should honestly consider the A12/28mm module over the ZM18/4 if you choose the GXR. The A12/28 is an 18.3mm lens - a very good one too - and comes cheaper, is a lot smaller. It is faster with f2.5 and has AF too. Also it will focus closer. It does of course not do manual focus as nice, but it works ok. I almost never use MF with it anyway as AF is accurate...

The A12/28 is good, although I've always felt that the A12/50 lens is somewhat better. In any case, I sold both after seeing the results that I was getting from the GXR M-Module. Now, I using the GXR-M mainly with the Elmarit-21 ASPH — developed using RPP the results can be really good, but I have gone on enough about RPP.

—Mitch/Chiang Mai
Days and Nights in the Forest

Nov 08, 2011 at 07:16 AM

wstam
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?

I picked up the GXR + the M module + VF2 over the weekend. Like the feel of the body. However, coming from Sony 5N with it's brilliant EVF and focus assist, I was struggling here with the GXR for a while. More out of focus than in focus photos on the 1st day. Below are some of the OK ones taken on day 1.

First attempt in focusing with this cam. Tried a few times before getting one right:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6103/6315387814_64eedef142_b.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6105/6314873573_fa98f87a7b_b.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6231/6315388300_2433e64764_b.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6112/6315389808_476d0e81d5_b.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6101/6315390486_9dd0a5a2d6_b.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6110/6315391336_760e84221b_b.jpg

All without PP (except one converting to BW). I like the color out of this cam.

Thanks for viewing.

Nov 08, 2011 at 07:20 AM

ocean2059
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?

wstam wrote:
I picked up the GXR + the M module + VF2 over the weekend. Like the feel of the body. However, coming from Sony 5N with it's brilliant EVF and focus assist, I was struggling here with the GXR for a while. More out of focus than in focus photos on the 1st day. Below are some of the OK ones taken on day 1.

Would you please comment on the image quality between GXR+M module and Sony NEX 5N from your experience? Many thanks,

Nov 08, 2011 at 07:26 AM

wstam
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?

ocean2059 wrote:
Would you please comment on the image quality between GXR+M module and Sony NEX 5N from your experience? Many thanks,

I only have the GXR for three days and I have not taken any photo with both on the same scene for comparison. Generally I like the color out of GXR more. The color seems to be "richer". Sony's will be "cleaner", especially for higher ISO. So far I never feel the need to PP the photos from GXR. They look just right to me. For Sony, I tend to tweak the photos a bit during PP. A friend who has 5N also bought the GXR on the same day with me. He likes the skin tones of people more with GXR.

More significantly is the handling of the body. To me GXR feel so much better, especially with the dials/buttons. More flexible. It makes 5N feel like toy. The only thing I miss from 5N is the EVF and it's focus assist implementation.

These are just my opinions. I guess different people have different priorities and will have different preferences.

Did some more shooting on the second day just to practice the focusing. Feel better with it.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6212/6322389082_cb2ae3ca6d_b.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6212/6321864135_b378ae8723_b.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6041/6322390396_03a3155646_b.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6211/6321865117_c383187d24_b.jpg

Thanks.

Nov 08, 2011 at 08:20 AM

jv11
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?

I do not have the 15mm, but everything I have read and seen looks good.

agnius wrote:
Thanks for the info, it is good to know that cv 12mm doesn't need any extra processing by corner fix. How about CV 15mm?

Nov 08, 2011 at 09:52 AM

jv11
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?

Nice pictures! Are you using focus assist mode 2? I found it to be easier and more accurate then sony's implementation. I have one button programmed for magnification and another setup for focus assist mode 2. Works great.

wstam wrote:
I only have the GXR for three days and I have not taken any photo with both on the same scene for comparison. Generally I like the color out of GXR more. The color seems to be "richer". Sony's will be "cleaner", especially for higher ISO. So far I never feel the need to PP the photos from GXR. They look just right to me. For Sony, I tend to tweak the photos a bit during PP. A friend who has 5N also bought the GXR on the same day with me. He likes the skin tones of people more...Show more →

Nov 08, 2011 at 09:57 AM

Mescalamba
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?

Thats some serious amount of resolution.. And colors look very good (I never saw much color photos from Ricoh).

Btw. it should have very similar focus assist to NEX (two or three versions of focus peaking, that high-pass one seemed promising).

Nov 08, 2011 at 10:10 AM

ocean2059
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?

wstam wrote:
I only have the GXR for three days and I have not taken any photo with both on the same scene for comparison. Generally I like the color out of GXR more. The color seems to be "richer". Sony's will be "cleaner", especially for higher ISO. So far I never feel the need to PP the photos from GXR. They look just right to me. For Sony, I tend to tweak the photos a bit during PP. A friend who has 5N also bought the GXR on the same day with me. He likes the skin tones of people more...Show more →

wstam: Thanks very much. From images that I saw on different sites, Ricoh GXR images have rich and deep color with very attractive rendering style. I enjoy your images here in this post.

Nov 08, 2011 at 10:26 AM

atran
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?

wstam wrote:
I only have the GXR for three days and I have not taken any photo with both on the same scene for comparison. Generally I like the color out of GXR more. The color seems to be "richer". Sony's will be "cleaner", especially for higher ISO. So far I never feel the need to PP the photos from GXR. They look just right to me. For Sony, I tend to tweak the photos a bit during PP. A friend who has 5N also bought the GXR on the same day with me. He likes the skin tones of people more...Show more →
Great color and sharpness, what lens you are using ?
Thank you,
An

Nov 08, 2011 at 12:05 PM

kosmoskatten
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?

MichaelW: the EVF on the Ricoh GXR is the weak point of the camera. The Sony EVF is much better. The GXR needs a better EVF, if I were to use it. The existing one is too much of an old "videocam" finder for me. Not useless, but not great. Ricoh are very customer oriented and I know they know their finder is below par. We'll see what happens in the future.

The A12/28mm (equiv) is a great little companion, the strengths are listed in my previous posting. The Zeiss ZM18 is a little sharper overall and for landscape/cityscape a better option, but the A12/28mm does well in that regard too. For short trips I would not take the ZM18.

I also agree with Mitch; the A12/50mm (equiv) is an even better lens. It is a top class lens. Sadly, it is the one I have used the least but when I do I am always pleased with the results. Macro works great too.

Wstam; it is a little learning curve with the rear LCD focusing. At first I thought the Sony was much better - which it is with the LCD sans focus aid. I use the GXR in the same configuration as JV11 does, and this way I actually prefer the GXR over the Sony. Simply put: they both work well. Great images by the way.

The Ricoh GXR is the only digital camera I have that I will not get rid of, it will always have a place with me as it does most things right. Even if I had to strip down to a bare minimum and keep just the A12 modules. Now that I have the A12 M module I see it as a working solution and a future backup.

/ Henrik

Nov 08, 2011 at 02:11 PM

bluetsunami
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?

wstam wrote:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6105/6314873573_fa98f87a7b_b.jpg

Love the fine texture that's being picked up. I also noticed (via browsing Flickr) the wonderful skin tones the GXR represents. It makes my Rebel XT's rendering of skin tones look cartoonish.

Nov 08, 2011 at 02:49 PM

kosmoskatten
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?

Size comparison; ZM18/4 on GXR M mount vs A12/18.3mm (28mm equiv). Got home late and just snapped a few Jpegs for a quick and dirty upload:

This is the focus mode that I find very useful. It picks up even the slightest detail and sharpness transition. Since toggle between focus aid and full unaltered LCD view is by pressing the shutter button I don't find the focus aid image distracting. I hated it the first minute though. Then I found out just how accurate it was with eyelids and eyelashes, even with the wideangle lenses in low light... ...that won me over.

This is quite a small selection of the image. Full image (downsized Jpeg):

The same position, but not the same shot as I had just one SD card that I swapped between the cameras.
ZM18, f4, snapshot in Jpeg at ISO1600.

Nov 08, 2011 at 04:57 PM

michaelwatkins
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?

That's a helpful size comparison between the ZM 18/4 and the 28mm EFOV module. I see possibilities.

"Predator" focus mode grows on you, does it? I can /almost/ imagine it but believe it possible.

Nov 08, 2011 at 06:25 PM

kosmoskatten
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?

Michael: it works really well and is the best live view focus aid I have come across.

Shooting through a viewfinder would make it quite annoying but shooting with the LCD it does not bother me at all. You can glance over the LCD at the subject intermittently while working the focus aid and pressing the shutter button snaps it back into normal view. Easy peasy.

It went from gimmicky to awesome in two minutes for me.
With the GXR you can choose two (or is it three?) magnifications and the basic one works fine for me.

For the NEX5N I will say the same with the touch screen zoom in for focusing - it went from gimmicky to awesome in five minutes. I thought of switching it off first, but then I noticed how handy it was - much easier than toggling a cursor. After tapping the screen you can toggle the cursor to the exact point faster than using the cursor alone. This works faster on the NEX5N as I have to press one extra button on the GXR to activate the cursor. At least the way I have configured it.

As I will bring the camera climbing I will pick up a used 28mm module tomorrow, one popped up the other day. Well worth the asking price, I can't even find an equivalent lens alone for that price. Then I won't have to care that it has a sensor stuck to it.

The whole camera with the A12/28mm mounted fits in a padded double zippered Lowe Pro lens bag, size #1. Perfect for climbing.

For normal use I can squeeze it in a small Case Logic hard case that is no bigger than a normal point&shoot case and I use a small biner to clip it in if necessary.

Nov 08, 2011 at 06:35 PM

bluetsunami
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?

I played around with some DNG files from the GXR hosted online and it seems like the per pixel sharpness isn't represented well with the JPEG output, even at FINE. With DNG the fine detail is amazing.

Nov 08, 2011 at 08:37 PM

kosmoskatten
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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?

Yes, that is my opinion as well. Jpegs are a bit on the soft side, at least with the 28 and 50mm modules, more noticeably so with the 28. I use Jpeg on the GXR for woodwork documentation and not much else.

However, I think the Jpegs out of the camera with the GXR M mount are pretty good.

A quick and dirty close focus comparison.
First image is with the ZM18 on the GXR M mount at minimum focus distance, 0.5m, Jpeg;

Second image is with NEX5N and the Hawk's adapter with the ZM18 at minimum focus;

Full image - no crop! Handheld at 1/6s so not showing the potential quality here.

Note that the Hawk's adapter is not just a tube, it's a helicoid so you can adjust near focus with the adapter focusing ring from same magnification as GXR down to what the image shows.
This, to me, is a huge benefit for the Sony with Hawk's adapter. A similar solution for GXR M mount is of course possible but at the loss of infinity focus. I would however be satisfied with a sliding macro tube and would be happy to use it for close focus shots only.

BlueTsunami: what lenses were those Jpegs shot with? Also, I think the Jpeg settings on the GXR might be a culprit on the soft samples.

Nov 09, 2011 at 02:11 AM

kosmoskatten
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p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?

Other nitpicks:
When shifting lenses on the Sony, the sensor is exposed. I have three cats. They will be represented on most images in the future.

On Ricoh, the module closes the shutter when the camera is turned off. Switching off the camera when changing lenses will not expose the sensor. Much better.

Nov 09, 2011 at 03:55 AM

wstam
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p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?

Hi, thanks for all the comments. Also thanks for the advises on focusing with GXR. I have not tried mode 2 yet. Will give it a try this weekend. I am using VF2 on GXR. It's not as great as Sony's but I still prefer to use it. I am not used to taking photo via the LCD. Also find that, with the camera close against my face, I can hold it more steady

Thanks.

Nov 09, 2011 at 09:58 AM

wstam
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p.4 #20 · p.4 #20 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?

atran wrote:
Great color and sharpness, what lens you are using ?
Thank you,
An

For these two photos, first one was taken with elmarit-m 90/2.8. Second one was ZM 35/2.8.

Thanks.

Nov 09, 2011 at 10:01 AM

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