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Archive 2011 · Zeiss 35mm F2 vs Samyang 35mm F1.4

wayne seltzer
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Zeiss 35mm F2 vs Samyang 35mm F1.4

edwardkaraa wrote:
Wayne,

From the published MTF, I'm not particularly worried about the corners. There is a resolution dip in zone B but not excessively so.

Also as you know, Zeiss MTF are measured (or in ZA's case, calculated) at infinity. Usually the corner performance is much better at close distance where the field curvature actually enhances the three dimensional rendition.

Anyhow, according to the MTF, the ZA 24/2 has abysmal corners, but I have discovered a trick to obtain perfect corners at infinity and f/5.6, so no, I'm not really worried

Aug 26, 2011 at 04:35 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Zeiss 35mm F2 vs Samyang 35mm F1.4

FlyPenFly wrote:
Yeah I saw that comparison! Thanks Denoir.

I was thinking about that comparison between perhaps the most contrasty modern Zeiss the 100mm Makro and the Nikon 105mm F2.5 where it seems few people guessed correctly. Perhaps that is just a very good Nikon and in web sizes it's not as apparent.

Looking at the Samyang thread, I'm really curious if people could tell the difference between that lens and the Zeiss 35mm F2 if they're shot at the same aperture. The Samyang thread is pretty impressive but part of that I'm sure is the quality of the photography of the posters...Show more →

The Samyang/ Rokinon is not going to have the ultra contrast of the Zeiss but it's also not going to give the typical soft, mushy look many associate with some Canon glass. As I showed in the comparison I did with the Minolta 35/2, the Samyang/ Rokinon offers a look very close to classic Minolta regarding contrast. Color of the Samyang/ Rokinon is a bit warmer than the Minolta 35/2. In that same comparison, I had to warm up the Minolta images during raw processing to give the warmer (to me, more preferable) color of the Rokinon.

I think your choice ultimately comes down to personal preferences and what you plan to be shooting the most. If size is to be considered, the Rokinon 35 1.4 is pretty big and the Minolta is nice and small. Minolta offers AF, auto aperture, etc. and is very quick to shoot with. The Rokinon is all manual and much slower to shoot. The minolta offers exceptional sharpness in the central area wide open - sharper than the Rokinon at F2 in fact. Corner sharpness at any aperture is far superior with the Rokinon. The Rokinon is special in that it can be shot at fast F-stops with gorgeous bokeh and oof transitions -and minolta/ Leica like colors- but behaves like the ideal landscape lens when stopped down - tack sharp all over into the extreme corners on FF a900/850. It's sort of rare for a lens to have that sort of multi-personality.

Aug 26, 2011 at 05:55 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Zeiss 35mm F2 vs Samyang 35mm F1.4

http://www.sony.jp/ichigan/products/SEL24F18Z/images/prod/m/y_SEL24F18Z_MTF.jpg

http://www.sony.jp/ichigan/products/SAL24F20Z/images/prod/m/y_SAL24F20Z_MTF.jpg

PS: in case you're curious about my trick, it's -5 AF...Show more →

I would be very interested to see an example using your trick showing what your getting in the extreme corners and center at infinity. In my testing of the ZA24 at infinity, even playing with micro AF adjustments in both directions as well as manually bracketing distance, I never saw tack sharp extreme corners at any aperture. It is one reason why I eventually sold the lens - the other being that it was really a bit wider than I wanted.

By the way, the MTF's indicate the ZA24 will likely outperform the upcoming 24 1.8 when used on the NEX-7.

Aug 26, 2011 at 06:18 PM

FlyPenFly
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Zeiss 35mm F2 vs Samyang 35mm F1.4

I don't know, would you use a minolta 35mm over a zeiss 35mm f2?

Aug 26, 2011 at 06:22 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Zeiss 35mm F2 vs Samyang 35mm F1.4

RustyBug wrote:
Is there anything in the Leica camp that should be considered for the 35/2 range before Leitaxing your ZF?

Been there and no, nothing in Leica mount if corner performance is a priority as far as fixed lenses.

With regard to extreme corner performance, my bet is that even none of the Zeiss 35's being considered are going to match the Rokinon.

Aug 26, 2011 at 06:26 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Zeiss 35mm F2 vs Samyang 35mm F1.4

FlyPenFly wrote:
I don't know, would you use a minolta 35mm over a zeiss 35mm f2?

I would if I was shooting something that required AF and fast operation but, other than that, likely not. The Rokinon though, probably so if I did not require AF. That's just me.

I actually went though a lot of wide angle before settling on the Rokinon, including the C/Y 28 2.8. I have not shot the Zeiss 35 F2 but nothing about the C/Y impressed me more than the Rokinon, including micro contrast. More impressive to me was the C/Y 35 - 70 (it's biggest flaw being extreme vignetting at the wide end) but it has been a while since I owned that lens.

Aug 26, 2011 at 06:33 PM

RustyBug
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Zeiss 35mm F2 vs Samyang 35mm F1.4

Tariq Gibran wrote:
Been there and no, nothing in Leica mount if corner performance is a priority as far as fixed lenses.

With regard to extreme corner performance, my bet is that even none of the Zeiss 35's being considered are going to match the Rokinon.

That's a pretty tall order to suggest that the Rokinon is better than both Zeiss & Leica offerings in the 35/2 (or faster) range. Having seen the amount of CA the Rokinon had in the thread that Luka linked in was enough for me to put it out of mind as a front-runner. As an excellent "bang for your buck" contender, that might be a very different matter.

I'm not specifically familiar with the Rokinon, so I have to defer a bit on this one, but one thing I've come to know about optics is that there is no such thing as a "free lunch". IF the corners are sharper, as you say, then how is the distortion or field curvature, CA, bokeh, etc.

It's a tough pill to swallow that it is BOTH cheaper and better than BOTH Leica & Zeiss ...
I'll remain objectively open minded (although having already seen the CA level

) since I'm in the hunt myself (current owner of the C/Y 35-70/3.4 and C/Y 28/2.8) to lighten my bag in a 2-for-1 switchout.

Taking a look at the specs on photozone.de for the Samyang vs. the Zeiss 35/2, the Samyang shows some slight edge over the Zeiss in multiple areas. Too bad that the review was incomplete for the Zeiss. Of course, as always with Zeiss, it's a dicey thing to consider reviews that do not include infinity as telling the whole story.

Edited on Aug 27, 2011 at 09:57 PM · View previous versions

Aug 26, 2011 at 07:19 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Zeiss 35mm F2 vs Samyang 35mm F1.4

RustyBug wrote:
That's a pretty tall order to suggest that the Rokinon is better than both Zeiss & Leica offerings in the 35/2 (or faster) range. Having seen the amount of CA the Rokinon had in the thread that Luka linked in was enough for me to put it out of mind as a front-runner. As an excellent "bang for your buck" contender, that might be a very different matter.

I'm not specifically familiar with the Rokinon, so I have to defer a bit on this one, but one thing I've come to know about optics is that there is no such...Show more →

I don't know if it was just the copy used in the other thread but my copy of the Rokinon is CA free. IMHO, the lens is much more than just a bang for your buck contender. There is moderate distortion which is easily correctable if using the lens for critical applications such as architecture.

The Leica R 35's produce gorgeous color and overall rendering but absolute corner sharpness is not one of their attributes, at least with the Summicrons. The very expensive Summilux may perform better - I have not used it - but the MTF's show it's definitely not going to outperform the Rokinon in the corners, particularly at brighter F-stops.

Do note, I am specifically addressing corner performance on FF. I'm not making some general statement that the Rokinon is just better overall, a sentiment which I think is highly subjective anyway.

Aug 26, 2011 at 08:03 PM

RustyBug
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Zeiss 35mm F2 vs Samyang 35mm F1.4

Tariq Gibran wrote:
Do note, I am specifically addressing corner performance on FF. I'm not making some general statement that the Rokinon is just better overall, a sentiment which I think is highly subjective anyway.

Gotcha.

Aug 26, 2011 at 08:21 PM

edwardkaraa
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Zeiss 35mm F2 vs Samyang 35mm F1.4

Tariq Gibran wrote:
I would be very interested to see an example using your trick showing what your getting in the extreme corners and center at infinity. In my testing of the ZA24 at infinity, even playing with micro AF adjustments in both directions as well as manually bracketing distance, I never saw tack sharp extreme corners at any aperture. It is one reason why I eventually sold the lens - the other being that it was really a bit wider than I wanted.

By the way, the MTF's indicate the ZA24 will likely outperform the upcoming 24 1.8 when used on the...Show more →

That's too bad that you sold your ZA 24. I think it's a wondeful lens.

I don't think we can clearly say that the ZA 24 will outperform the ZA E on APS-C, as I have learned that in real life, these MTF don't seem to mean much. I would rather see some actual shots at infinity and up close to make my own judgement.

Btw, here are the requested shots from the center and the extreme lower right and left corners at f/5.6. They are not "tack sharp" but quite good imho. Beyond the corner the sharpness is exemplary. Converted from raw with ACR default settings.

http://i.pbase.com/o2/00/471900/1/137559497.kIyotG2V.DSC07574.jpg

http://i.pbase.com/o2/00/471900/1/137559598.r0sydjvE.DSC075743.jpg

http://i.pbase.com/o2/00/471900/1/137559498.kPCBHjkp.DSC075741.jpg

http://i.pbase.com/o2/00/471900/1/137559499.ASWwnWTM.DSC075742.jpg

Aug 27, 2011 at 12:31 AM

Tariq Gibran
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Zeiss 35mm F2 vs Samyang 35mm F1.4

edwardkaraa wrote:
That's too bad that you sold your ZA 24. I think it's a wondeful lens.

I don't think we can clearly say that the ZA 24 will outperform the ZA E on APS-C, as I have learned that in real life, these MTF don't seem to mean much. I would rather see some actual shots at infinity and up close to make my own judgement.

Btw, here are the requested shots from the extreme lower right and left corners at f/5.6. They are not "tack sharp" but quite good imho. Beyond the corner the sharpness is exemplary. Converted from raw with ACR...Show more →

Thanks for posting those. The corners still look pretty soft to me and that's pretty much what I saw with my second copy of the lens (the first one was even worse if you recall). For the money, I could not justify the lens for critical landscape use but for the uses and examples you often post with the lens, it seems ideal. Again though, the ZA24 was wider than the 28 to 35 FL I originally was shopping for so that did come into play as well. I already owned a much cheaper 24mm which performs fine for editorial/ documentary type uses.

Yes, on paper may not reflect actual results so there could be cases where either one performs better lens to lens! The quality control issue I saw with the ZA24 was a little worrisome.

Aug 27, 2011 at 12:47 AM

wayne seltzer
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Zeiss 35mm F2 vs Samyang 35mm F1.4

Will be interesting to soon see how the new Z*25/2 compares to the ZA 24/2.

Aug 27, 2011 at 03:00 AM

Sp12
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Zeiss 35mm F2 vs Samyang 35mm F1.4

denoir wrote:
It's not. About 90% of people here can tell a Zeiss lens from a Canon lens in a blind test. In a forum (POTN) frequented by people new to photography the accuracy was about 80%.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/983404

I was one of the people with 100% on that test, but I only preferred the Zeiss image 1/5th of the time.

Honestly none of the Zeiss primes can compare to the 35-70 for landscape and slow-aperture work (anything F4 or slower).

IMO the Samyang is about as good optically as the 35/2 Zeiss. They both are better at specific areas (Samyang has CA and corner performance, Zeiss has SA correction at MFD, bokeh, Zeiss rendering if you like it and probably vignetting/distortion). Both of them perform better than 90% of people need, but IMO the ability of the Samyang to switch between F/1.4 portraits to F/5.6 landscapes and still be in the top 5 35mm reflex lenses in that area is astounding -- and not only for the price.

Aug 27, 2011 at 09:09 AM

FlyPenFly
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Zeiss 35mm F2 vs Samyang 35mm F1.4

Just in case anyone is interested, I've found some test results on Photozone that is helpful.

All tests were done on a D3X.

Observations:

1. The Zeiss 35mm F2 is significantly smaller than the Samyang 35mm F1.4.

2. The Zeiss is almost 1 EV more vignetting at F2.0

3. In resolution tests, they're essentially the same for practical purposes.

4. The Samyang has significantly better CA correction.

5. The Samyang has better LOCA control.

So finally, the comparison comes down to that the size matters a lot, it takes up a lot less room in the bag which is going to be important in my travels. It has Zeiss style high micro contrast. What I lose is better aberration control and the capabilities of F1.4.

Aug 27, 2011 at 09:44 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Zeiss 35mm F2 vs Samyang 35mm F1.4

FlyPenFly wrote:
Just in case anyone is interested, I've found some test results on Photozone that is helpful.

All tests were done on a D3X.

Observations:

1. The Zeiss 35mm F2 is significantly smaller than the Samyang 35mm F1.4.

2. The Zeiss is almost 1 EV more vignetting at F2.0

3. In resolution tests, they're essentially the same for practical purposes.

4. The Samyang has significantly better CA correction.

5. The Samyang has better LOCA control.

So finally, the comparison comes down to that the size matters a lot, it takes up a lot less room in the bag which is going to be important in my travels. It has...Show more →

The Zeiss appears to be about an inch longer though the Rokinon is certainly greater in diameter. That Zeiss is a pretty large lens for it's speed and focal length actually. Compare it's size to say the Minolta 35 F2 AF. Then there is the difference in bokeh rendering if that matters to you. Finally, there is the matter of a $600 price difference!

Aug 27, 2011 at 10:40 PM

wayne seltzer
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Zeiss 35mm F2 vs Samyang 35mm F1.4

FlyPenFly wrote:
Just in case anyone is interested, I've found some test results on Photozone that is helpful.

All tests were done on a D3X.

Observations:

1. The Zeiss 35mm F2 is significantly smaller than the Samyang 35mm F1.4.

2. The Zeiss is almost 1 EV more vignetting at F2.0

3. In resolution tests, they're essentially the same for practical purposes.

4. The Samyang has significantly better CA correction.

5. The Samyang has better LOCA control.

So finally, the comparison comes down to that the size matters a lot, it takes up a lot less room in the bag which is going to be important in my travels. It has...Show more →

I believe one and two above but doubt 3,4,5 are true. Especially after seeing Cavewalker's comparison shots, the Samyang had plenty of CA.

Aug 27, 2011 at 10:50 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Zeiss 35mm F2 vs Samyang 35mm F1.4

wayne seltzer wrote:
I believe one and two above but doubt 3,4,5 are true. Especially after seeing Cavewalker's comparison shots, the Samyang had plenty of CA.

I think you would be surprised Wayne. I have never ran into strong CA issues with the Rokinon in use, nor when I tested it. Wide open, I'm sure if I shot harshly lit chrome, there might be a hint but it's very well controlled in this lens, particularly given it's speed. LoCA, which tends to bother me more than some, has also not drawn attention to itself in use.

I have not used the Zeiss 35 F2 myself so I can't say how it would compare. The Rokinon is at least the equal of the top three or so lenses at this focal length I have tested and which I consider outstanding - Zeiss Rollei 35 2.8, Zeiss Flektagon 35 2.5 and C/Y 35-70 3.4. Probably the most remarkable thing about the Rokinon is that it is tack sharp into the extreme corners by F4! I have not seen that with any other lens shot on FF previously.

Aug 27, 2011 at 11:04 PM

denoir
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Zeiss 35mm F2 vs Samyang 35mm F1.4

Wayne, yeah, I'm a bit skeptical especially about the LoCA. Cavewalker demonstrated clearly that the Samyang produces a lot more LoCA than the 35/1.4 Distagon. And the 35/1.4 distagon produces more LoCA than the 35/2 Distagon.

In fact after looking through my 35/2 Distagon shots, I think it's the most LoCA free 35mm I've used - including the 35 Lux ASPH.

The LoCA would be visible as green rings around the highlights in the bokeh:

http://peltarion.eu/img/zeiss/zeiss35-94.jpg

http://peltarion.eu/img/zeiss/zeiss35-95.jpg

http://peltarion.eu/img/zeiss/zeiss35-96.jpg

And for comparison the 35/1.4:

http://peltarion.eu/img/zeiss/rz35-241.jpg

---

Hmm, I really ought to use my ZE 35/2 more. It's a really nice lens at close to medium distances at all apertures. I was a bit disappointed by it for landscape use (stopped down & infinity) which made me neglect it for quite a while (and also because the 35/1.4 Distagon Rollei is more special), but I should really start using it again.

Edited on Aug 27, 2011 at 11:12 PM · View previous versions

Aug 27, 2011 at 11:07 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Zeiss 35mm F2 vs Samyang 35mm F1.4

This is the sort of shot I would expect to see major LocA in but to me, it really does not stand out as an issue with the Rokinon:
http://www.gibranstudio.com/rokcolor.jpg

Aug 27, 2011 at 11:11 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Zeiss 35mm F2 vs Samyang 35mm F1.4

denoir wrote:
Wayne, yeah, I'm a bit skeptical especially about the LoCA. Cavewalker demonstrated clearly that the Samyang produces a lot more LoCA than the 35/1.4 Distagon. And the 35/1.4 distagon produces more LoCA than the 35/2 Distagon.

In fact after looking through my 35/2 Distagon shots, I think it's the most LoCA free 35mm I've used - including the 35 Lux ASPH.

The LoCA would be visible as green rings around the highlights in the bokeh:

http://peltarion.eu/img/zeiss/zeiss35-94.jpg

http://peltarion.eu/img/zeiss/zeiss35-95.jpg

http://peltarion.eu/img/zeiss/zeiss35-96.jpg

And for comparison the 35/1.4:

http://peltarion.eu/img/zeiss/rz35-241.jpg

---

Hmm, I really ought to use my ZE 35/2 more. It's a really nice lens at close to medium distances at all apertures. I...Show more →

See, if you had the Samyang/ Rokinon, you could not only enjoy tack sharp corner to corner performance at infinity across the frame stopped down but also nice oof backgrounds at brighter f-stops without that oblong cateye-bokeh I'm seeing in a few of these shots from the Zeiss.

Aug 27, 2011 at 11:16 PM

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