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Archive 2022 · Buying an X100V - Used "zero shutter count" vs refurbished

  
 
71sbeetle
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p.1 #1 · Buying an X100V - Used "zero shutter count" vs refurbished


So, I was tasked by a friend overseas to look for a gently used X100V for him since new they are several months wait.
I went thru the FM B&S and told him it looks like they are around $1400-1700 used and about $1100-1200 refurbished second hand, he said he'd much rather get a low shutter count non refurbished to take advantage of the 12 months warranty vs 90 days.
Looking at the B&S forum there were a few for sale, I was close to getting one when he decided he wasn't sure anymore, and when he finally made his mind that one was gone but another had been posted, a silver one (what he wanted, the others were black) with "zero shutter count - mint - 1 year Fuji warranty".
I contacted the seller and we spoke on the phone, he seemed like a nice guy and we made a deal, I sent him the money right away as we were on the phone and he shipped it out later that day. I was out of town at the time but my wife was home to receive the package.
She called me to say it had arrived and I asked her to open the box to check that the camera was all good, the first thing she said was "did you know it was a refurbished camera?" ...... no, I didn't! The seller never mentioned it, he even said it came with a 12 months Fuji warranty, and the price was more in line with a non refurbished unit ($1650, no accessories included).
Once I got home I also noticed the hot shoe cover was not the silver Fuji one shown in his pictures but a generic black plastic one, and I am actually starting to believe the camera in his pictures is not the one he sold me.
I've been trying to call the seller but of course no replies, he finally responded one of my texts (I texted him to let him know he never mentioned anywhere the camera was a refurb, to tell him about hot shoe cover and to get date/place of purchase and copy of receipt so I can register warranty) his response was the camera was purchased on xx/xx/xxxx and that's it. No more communication.
Of course now my friend I bought the camera for is asking if I can resell (at a loss) and look for another, he's not too happy about it and neither am I.
I feel like I got scammed by this seller on here, what do you think? Am I over-reacting?



Aug 22, 2022 at 04:11 PM
RoamingScott
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p.1 #2 · Buying an X100V - Used "zero shutter count" vs refurbished


I hope you paid with Paypal and got buyer protection.

I recently got hoodwinked on a deal here on FM where the camera wasn't close to the description. I demanded a full refund to my Paypal, fully intent on engaging Paypal if the seller wasn't helpful (he was). I ended up losing the return shipping cost, but whatever, I wasn't stuck with a lemon of a camera.

If you don't have buyer protection, then yes, you're out of luck here if the seller won't refund. The tricky part is you have to place some trust in the seller that they will actually refund if they say so, because otherwise you're out the camera AND the money.

It might be worth talking to Paypal if you're covered on this purchase.



Aug 22, 2022 at 04:22 PM
agvogel
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p.1 #3 · Buying an X100V - Used "zero shutter count" vs refurbished


I just had a look at the posting described. I'll admit, I would have thought it was new as well, certain things are certainly misleading:

"MINT BOX" vs "MINT"

"Zero shutter count" - could mean a replaced shutter. Not sure what Fuji's policy is on that.

The big question is the warranty. He claims it has a factory warranty, but does it include the warranty card? Could you contact Fuji and validate the warranty?

You're well within your rights to ask for a refund, or open a PayPal claim, if you feel the item is not as described, and that point above about the warranty will be the most concrete measure of if the item is as described in the posting or not. If it does have the one year warranty, I personally don't see a big difference between this one and a brand new one, but that's your call.







Aug 22, 2022 at 04:24 PM
RoamingScott
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p.1 #4 · Buying an X100V - Used "zero shutter count" vs refurbished


I'm also curious why you suspect it's a refurb...did the box it came in say as much? All you mentioned was your wife said it was.

Are you basing your thought that this isn't the same camera solely by the mismatched hotshoe cover?

My personal theory is that if it's a refurb, it's one that was recently available on a deal from fuji and he just flipped it for a higher price.

Also, you know your friend won't get a 12 month warranty if he lives overseas, right? A US camera warranty is not applicable overseas. Not only that, the used unit you buy may very well already be completely out of warranty regardless.



Aug 22, 2022 at 04:31 PM
71sbeetle
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p.1 #5 · Buying an X100V - Used "zero shutter count" vs refurbished


RoamingScott wrote:
I hope you paid with Paypal and got buyer protection.

I recently got hoodwinked on a deal here on FM where the camera wasn't close to the description. I demanded a full refund to my Paypal, fully intent on engaging Paypal if the seller wasn't helpful (he was). I ended up losing the return shipping cost, but whatever, I wasn't stuck with a lemon of a camera.

If you don't have buyer protection, then yes, you're out of luck here if the seller won't refund. The tricky part is you have to place some trust in the seller that they will actually
...Show more

Unfortunately I did something I never do because I know it's stupid, but the seller seemed like a genuinely nice person on the phone, knowledgeable about photography in general etc. So I am out of luck on that but my bank did say if I file a police report and bring it in to the branch I can actually get a full refund no questions asked. Not looking for a full refund, only partial to bring it more in line to what refurbished units have been going for (2 listings here $1150 and $1300). But I guess I could file the police report and take all the money back if I really wanted to.

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agvogel wrote:
I just had a look at the posting described. I'll admit, I would have thought it was new as well, certain things are certainly misleading:

"MINT BOX" vs "MINT"

"Zero shutter count" - could mean a replaced shutter. Not sure what Fuji's policy is on that.

The big question is the warranty. He claims it has a factory warranty, but does it include the warranty card? Could you contact Fuji and validate the warranty?

You're well within your rights to ask for a refund, or open a PayPal claim, if you feel the item is not as described, and that point above about the
...Show more

The shutter count was actually 100 on the screen when I got the camera, I think it's at 170ish I don't remember but I can look again. Weird because the picture he sent me said 00
I need to call Fuji since he won't give me the info I can't register online. And yes 1 year warranty would be much better than 90 days.

---------------------------------------------

RoamingScott wrote:
I'm also curious why you suspect it's a refurb...did the box it came in say as much? All you mentioned was your wife said it was.

Are you basing your thought that this isn't the same camera solely by the mismatched hotshoe cover?

My personal theory is that if it's a refurb, it's one that was recently available on a deal from fuji and he just flipped it for a higher price.

Also, you know your friend won't get a 12 month warranty if he lives overseas, right? A US camera warranty is not applicable overseas. Not only that, the used unit you
...Show more

I suspect it's a refurb because of the big refurbished seal sticker on the box and also the inside of the lid is stamped "refurbished" and since the serial on the box matches the one on the body I know it's refurbished. The "flipped" X100V factory refurb have been going for $1150-$1300 and since he never once mentioned it was refurbished I didn't even think twice, the price was not in line with a refurb unit.
He will still get a 12 months warranty even if overseas, he just has to ship it back to me first, we've always done that over the years and it has never been an issue, although I never tried with Fuji since that's his first one. Canon, Sony, Tamron and Sigma had no issues when I asked, and Nikon specifically said if it's a US unit sent into a US repair center it will be covered. It's an extra step and cost for him having to mail it to me and me mail it back but it's much better than him having to have it repaired locally. Also the seller said it was a 12 month warranty and that he had just gotten the camera this month but that he really wanted a black one so he was selling this one, I figured that was at least 11 months of warranty left



Aug 22, 2022 at 05:14 PM
johnvanr
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p.1 #6 · Buying an X100V - Used "zero shutter count" vs refurbished


You're going through a lot of trouble for a friend. You seem to be in the right to get a refund on the camera, but I also think your friend is expecting a bit much from you considering the availability of the X100V right now. Good luck with your case, though.



Aug 22, 2022 at 05:19 PM
agvogel
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p.1 #7 · Buying an X100V - Used "zero shutter count" vs refurbished


71sbeetle wrote:
Unfortunately I did something I never do because I know it's stupid, but the seller seemed like a genuinely nice person on the phone, knowledgeable about photography in general etc. So I am out of luck on that but my bank did say if I file a police report and bring it in to the branch I can actually get a full refund no questions asked. Not looking for a full refund, only partial to bring it more in line to what refurbished units have been going for (2 listings here $1150 and $1300). But I guess I could file
...Show more

I'd return it based on the shutter count alone, in that case.



Aug 22, 2022 at 05:36 PM
71sbeetle
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p.1 #8 · Buying an X100V - Used "zero shutter count" vs refurbished


johnvanr wrote:
You're going through a lot of trouble for a friend. You seem to be in the right to get a refund on the camera, but I also think your friend is expecting a bit much from you considering the availability of the X100V right now. Good luck with your case, though.


He's like brother to me, I help him he helps me, so I have no problem helping him out actually.
I do feel bad for him though because now he bought a $1200 camera for $1600 and he's gonna eat the loss on it by reselling it for less, and then will still have to pay for another



Aug 22, 2022 at 05:46 PM
71sbeetle
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p.1 #9 · Buying an X100V - Used "zero shutter count" vs refurbished


agvogel wrote:
I'd return it based on the shutter count alone, in that case.


I wish I could but I was stupid enough to trust the guy and used a non protected method of payment, don't do it guys and gals, it's not worth it!



Aug 22, 2022 at 05:47 PM
agvogel
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p.1 #10 · Buying an X100V - Used "zero shutter count" vs refurbished


71sbeetle wrote:
He's like brother to me, I help him he helps me, so I have no problem helping him out actually.
I do feel bad for him though because now he bought a $1200 camera for $1600 and he's gonna eat the loss on it by reselling it for less, and then will still have to pay for another


Who says you have to sell it for a huge loss? Be fully transparent about what you're selling, and you can list whatever price you want. It's a free market, no one is being forced to buy at whatever price you list it at. I've seen these things sell at $1800+ on this forum. Sure, you may not get many/any takers, but you can readjust pricing at that point rather than taking a loss for no reason.



Aug 22, 2022 at 06:05 PM
71sbeetle
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p.1 #11 · Buying an X100V - Used "zero shutter count" vs refurbished


agvogel wrote:
Who says you have to sell it for a huge loss? Be fully transparent about what you're selling, and you can list whatever price you want. It's a free market, no one is being forced to buy at whatever price you list it at. I've seen these things sell at $1800+ on this forum. Sure, you may not get many/any takers, but you can readjust pricing at that point rather than taking a loss for no reason.


That is true, I will ask him what he wants to do I'm thinking selling this one at a higher price will take longer and I can't buy another before I sell that one as he doesn't have enough $ to send me to cover that. But then maybe by then new ones will start to trickle back in too lol



Aug 22, 2022 at 06:15 PM
RoamingScott
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p.1 #12 · Buying an X100V - Used "zero shutter count" vs refurbished


Welp, that seals it. It’s your camera now. The good news, despite the string of assumptions of poor judgement that got you here, is that the camera does appear mint. Ultimately, if I were in your shoes, I’d eat the $400 difference between the purchase price and the refurb price to let your buddy get a clean refurb at the refurb price if he wants it.

71sbeetle wrote:
I wish I could but I was stupid enough to trust the guy and used a non protected method of payment, don't do it guys and gals, it's not worth it!




Aug 22, 2022 at 06:25 PM
71sbeetle
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p.1 #13 · Buying an X100V - Used "zero shutter count" vs refurbished


RoamingScott wrote:
Welp, that seals it. It’s your camera now. The good news, despite the string of assumptions of poor judgement that got you here, is that the camera does appear mint. Ultimately, if I were in your shoes, I’d eat the $400 difference between the purchase price and the refurb price to let your buddy get a clean refurb at the refurb price if he wants it.



I actually told him I would keep that one for myself and find him another for him, he refused. I never charge him anything when he buys stuff that I ship to him, he said over the years I've spent more time and money on fuel than what the camera itself is worth, he doesn't want me to have even more in negative, I actually just spoke to him and he said to list it locally to me for 1 week if no bites try online for a couple of days and if nothing he said if I really want it he'd sell it to me at a reduced price. But first I will call Fuji and see if the warranty is 12 months since I see some people that bought refurb got 12 months, and if so then he will take it.

I'm assuming that transaction warrants a "poor" feedback to the seller? I've never left anything other than "great" in the past but I've never had an issue like this before, and the one time I had an issue (only received part of what was advertised in a package) the seller overnighted me the missing items and apologized



Aug 22, 2022 at 06:34 PM
agvogel
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p.1 #14 · Buying an X100V - Used "zero shutter count" vs refurbished


71sbeetle wrote:
I actually told him I would keep that one for myself and find him another for him, he refused. I never charge him anything when he buys stuff that I ship to him, he said over the years I've spent more time and money on fuel than what the camera itself is worth, he doesn't want me to have even more in negative, I actually just spoke to him and he said to list it locally to me for 1 week if no bites try online for a couple of days and if nothing he said if I really want
...Show more

If everything happened as you described, that:
- the listing was not clear on it being refurbished;
- the shutter count was inaccurate;
- the seller blew you off when you raised questions;

then I think you can feel pretty confident in whatever rating you choose.



Aug 22, 2022 at 06:46 PM
71sbeetle
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p.1 #15 · Buying an X100V - Used "zero shutter count" vs refurbished


agvogel wrote:
If everything happened as you described, that:
- the listing was not clear on it being refurbished;
- the shutter count was inaccurate;
- the seller blew you off when you raised questions;

then I think you can feel pretty confident in whatever rating you choose.



I can check all 3 boxes so I guess "poor" it is. Kind of ironic considering on the phone he said he was a very stand up guy but he didn't have many feedbacks on here so he specifically asked me to leave him a feedback after the transaction was complete because a few of the people he dealt with did not leave him feedback. I guess I'll be leaving him a feedback but maybe he will wish I didn't. It's my second time getting scammed online, first time was 22 years ago!!



Aug 22, 2022 at 08:15 PM
mdude85
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p.1 #16 · Buying an X100V - Used "zero shutter count" vs refurbished


what do you mean specifically by "refurbished" ? As in factory refurbished?

The B&S forum is almost entirely a secondhand market, and the listing said that it was preowned (which I take to mean preowned by the seller).

One possible explanation for the shutter count is that the camera had fewer than 100 shots when he took the photos, and then he took some photos with it before he packed it up, moving the shutter count over 100 (the shutter count screen only shows accuracy to the nearest 100 actuations, e.g., 100, 200, 300, etc).

The lack of communication is a bit fishy, but I don't know all the circumstances. As a seller, I would politely but concisely explain the discrepancies between the item the buyer received and the item shown in the photo. Assuming it is the same item and accurately represented in the description, I consider the sale final. I want to do the right thing and avoid negative feedback, but I don't want to be jerked around by a buyer who didn't read the listing.






Aug 23, 2022 at 08:50 AM
71sbeetle
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p.1 #17 · Buying an X100V - Used "zero shutter count" vs refurbished


mdude85 wrote:
what do you mean specifically by "refurbished" ? As in factory refurbished?

The B&S forum is almost entirely a secondhand market, and the listing said that it was preowned (which I take to mean preowned by the seller).

One possible explanation for the shutter count is that the camera had fewer than 100 shots when he took the photos, and then he took some photos with it before he packed it up, moving the shutter count over 100 (the shutter count screen only shows accuracy to the nearest 100 actuations, e.g., 100, 200, 300, etc).

The lack of communication is a
...Show more

I believe it's factory refurbished, it's stamped "refurbished" inside the box lid and the box itself was sealed with a "refurbished - Fujifilm" label. The seller never mentioned it was refurbished neither on the ad or on the phone, and since he won't respond I don't have any more information.
I definitely read the listing before buying, it was the most expensive one the others may have been $100 more but they came with a bunch of accessories. The listing even says it comes with a 12 month Fuji warranty. He said he had just received that one but that he wanted a black one so he was selling that one. We thought we were getting an essentially new camera but that wasn't the case. I believe the listing was posted above by one of the first couple of people that replied, you can see for yourself no mention of it being refurbished.



Aug 23, 2022 at 09:43 AM
71sbeetle
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p.1 #18 · Buying an X100V - Used "zero shutter count" vs refurbished


I just got off the phone with Fuji
They confirmed the purchase date, they confirmed it was purchased as a refurbished unit and only carries a 90 day warranty thru November, they said the camera is already registered but could not tell me when I gave them the seller's name if it matched the registration or not, and they said without a receipt I cannot do any work under warranty.



Aug 23, 2022 at 10:08 AM
mdude85
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p.1 #19 · Buying an X100V - Used "zero shutter count" vs refurbished


Well there are two issues here -- whether the item was refurbished and whether you actually got the item shown in the listing.

I guess you need to determine which one it is before proceeding.

As to whether the seller has an obligation to list it as a refurbished unit.... If you follow up with the seller privately to ask, they need to be honest. Being squirrely about the provenance of the item is usually not a good sign. What is the likelihood that your friend will need to use the warranty? Maybe it's just time to enjoy the camera.



Aug 23, 2022 at 10:27 AM





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