Here's the 2nd update
This morning I called the lady at the city parks. I told her what happen both days. I did not give her the name of the photographer that approached me. I asked her about posting signs that said that Professional Photographers are required to have permits to use parks. She then asked what time of day seemed to be the biggest problem. I told her to have someone patrol the area between 4:30-7:00. If they do this, and write a few tickets, word will get out. I hate to be this way, but I'm sick of explaining to my brides why they have to pay and the others do not. She said that she would pass on the information and see if they could get someone to watch the parks and try to enforce the permit process for those of us that abide by the rules. Yvette


1st update
So, I had my shoot tonight at the other park. This time, I actually had a pro ask me how much longer I was going to be. She wanted my spot...Can you believe this? I HAVE A PERMIT PEOPLE...I wanted to scream!!! I said to her, I'm not sure, we have a permit for being here!!! I went about my business and just ignored them.
As we were walking away to our other location I had my telephoto and took her picture. I will find out from the lab who she is and then she's reported...
I'm also calling on Monday to ask for them to start busting these people. I can't believe she interupted my shoot because she wanted my spot...
End update


So I had a bridal shoot this afternoon. We were meeting at the studio for the bride to change and go to a location for an outdoor shoot (beautiful and 73 degrees). On the way, I get a call that the bride and mother was in an accident. A motorcycle had run into the back of them. Everyone was ok, but we were facing loosing the light. I drove to the accident location and picked up the bride and everything she needed to get ready. We decided to go straight to the location and let her change. As she is changing another photographer comes up and starts shooting a bride (I had purchased the permit to have the location). I let it go for the time being since we were not ready to shoot.
They moved to the other side of the area and so it didn't interfere with our shooting. Once they were done, I called to the lady photographer and asked if this was a paying client for her. She told me she was the bride's cousin. I told her that we had a permit for the location and that's why I was wondering. I know she was lying because of the way she got defensive with me. That wasn't the first time she had taken pictures because of some of the poses she was doing. She knew she wasn't supposed to be there, but did it anyways.

I went about my shoot and then here comes another photographer. He walks up and asks if I'm Dennis & Yvette (City post signs of who is supposed to be there). He had a 12 year old boy that he was supposed to take portraits of. He wanted to know if we would be willing to share the spot. I told him that it was the bride’s money and he would have to ask her. She agreed, and I told him as long as he was away from us, and he reimbursed the bride for the permit fees. He gave them the cash and again we went about the shoot.

Later once we were done he said that it was a hassle to go down there and get the permits. I said why is that? All I do is make a phone call and she has my credit card on file. She charges the card and then mails me the paper work. It's a 3 minute process to get the permit and make sure you reserve the space. Of course now he's told me that he's never gotten a permit by saying he had to go down there.

I'm really ticked at the guys that think they have the right to just come and go as they please. It's a $500.00 fine if they get busted. It looks like it offends them for me to say something. Gezz, I think I'll just make the phone call and let them pay the fine. My brides spend money for hair, makeup, and they plan getting these pictures taken months in advance. I have another shoot tomorrow at another city park. I’m going to put the city phone number on speed dial and just let them pay the piper. Wouldn’t you Yvette




Edited by dennisyvette on Mar 28, 2008 at 07:17 PM GMT

Edited by dennisyvette on Mar 31, 2008 at 10:19 AM GMT

If it's not your property then it is out of your hands. Continue to do the right thing and pay for the permit, those that don't; well it's up to them to pay the fine if it is brought to them. If they are shooting when you have the permit, call the county/city or whatever it might be. Does your permit only allow the time to you? What location is this?

JLinkowitz wrote:
If it's not your property then it is out of your hands. Continue to do the right thing and pay for the permit, those that don't; well it's up to them to pay the fine if it is brought to them. If they are shooting when you have the permit, call the county/city or whatever it might be. Does your permit only allow the time to you? What location is this?

Yes, the park I was at today can only have one photographer within that time slot. The other park has about 5 locations within the park. You can choose 3 to use within the time lot. Signs are posted and only non-photographers can be in the area because it's a public park.
I'm going to talk to the lady at the recreation park about posting a permanent sign that has to do with professional photographers and permits. Maybe this will get the message out. Anyone that does this professional should already know you are supposed to get the permit. I think they are just lazy or cheap. The guy today must be lazy since he pulled out cash and paid the bride's mother. I'm in Greenville, SC. Y


Edited by dennisyvette on Mar 27, 2008 at 09:53 PM GMT

If you pay for the time and location, it's yours.....can multiple shooters book it at the same day and time ? Or is it reserved for one shooter only ? If one only, then I would not allow others to shoot on my dime.........they can do the right thing and pay just like you did...

hassy501 wrote:
If you pay for the time and location, it's yours.....can multiple shooters book it at the same day and time ? Or is it reserved for one shooter only ? If one only, then I would not allow others to shoot on my dime.........they can do the right thing and pay just like you did...

One photographer at the given location within the permit for the alotted 2 hr. slot. That's it!!! Oh, and the fee is only $25.00 for a week day. They just think they are above getting the permint. Y

Wow. I thought America was a free country? needing a permit to shoot on a public park is a new one 2 me than again I live in Idaho...so what do I know?

Nathan Hobbs wrote:
Wow. I thought America was a free country? needing a permit to shoot on a public park is a new one 2 me than again I live in Idaho...so what do I know?

There is also something called a business license in the state of SC. If you work in the city limits of any town or city within SC, you are required to get a business license. It may be that is one of the reasons these guys don't want to get the permit. They would also have to buy a business license. Y

Nathan Hobbs wrote:
Wow. I thought America was a free country? needing a permit to shoot on a public park is a new one 2 me than again I live in Idaho...so what do I know?

You're a pro, this should be pretty basic knowledge for you. We pay taxes so the city can provide parks and services that improve our property values and quality of living. Not so that photographers have free studios at their beck and call.

-m

Edited by mauriceramirez on Mar 28, 2008 at 06:35 AM GMT

I'm curious about this actually.

I went to a location last weekend.. The Canals at Los Colinas in Texas.. There are NO COMMERCIAL PHOTOGRAPHY signs EVERYWHERE and it pisses me off because this is public property am i right?

Also there is a Photography Studio RIGHT SMACK in the middle of the canals. Salee Photography, some of you may of heard of them.. they are like 10-15k wedding photogs.

Anyways.. Am I not allowed to shoot there then? Or do i say screw it, shoot there, and get good shots or what??

Personally, if I went to a park to shoot, and found out u need a permit to shoot there.. I would shoot there anyways, and say screw it.. but that's me.. free country huh?

And why only a few parks have permits, but others dont? double standard? Just seems like a lot of BS to me.

Commercial photography = making a profit. The city isn't subsidizing your business. It's only fair that you give back something to pay for your nicely manicured lawns, colorfully-painted walls, and cleaning up the cigarette butts out of your "backgrounds".

You want a place to go jogging, that's different.

The Sallee's are extremely successful, professional, and high-end, I'm sure they have no problems getting the right permits to conduct their shoots. Maybe the permitting process wouldn't be such a big f'ing deal if pro photographers would charge the right amount to begin with. ;-)

-m

My concern here is for the honest people who pay the fee and then still have to scrap & fight to use the space they paid for .. if the city charges a fee to use an area then they should ensure that area is available for unobstructed use by those who paid the fee.

Mike Mahoney wrote:
My concern here is for the honest people who pay the fee and then still have to scrap & fight to use the space they paid for .. if the city charges a fee to use an area then they should ensure that area is available for unobstructed use by those who paid the fee.

+1

Yvette, you are always kind, but I know you will always fight for your clients to get their money's worth. Maybe have some cards or notes with the particulars of paying the fee and the ticket they're in danger of getting with the appropriate info of how to do it right, and hand one to anybody you encounter shooting during your time.

figmented wrote:
I'm curious about this actually.

I went to a location last weekend.. The Canals at Los Colinas in Texas.. There are NO COMMERCIAL PHOTOGRAPHY signs EVERYWHERE and it pisses me off because this is public property am i right?

Also there is a Photography Studio RIGHT SMACK in the middle of the canals. Salee Photography, some of you may of heard of them.. they are like 10-15k wedding photogs.

Anyways.. Am I not allowed to shoot there then? Or do i say screw it, shoot there, and get good shots or what??

Personally, if I went to a park to shoot, and found out u need a permit to shoot there.. I would shoot there anyways, and say screw it.. but that's me.. free country huh?

And why only a few parks have permits, but others dont? double standard? Just seems like a lot of BS to me.

If you take my space, I will report you. Do you really want to make an appointment with a bride that spends all that money and take a chance of getting thrown out? Is that professional of you to do that to someone that has entrusted her memories to you? Professional also means obeying the rules rather you like them or not. Why don't you call the city where you are located and ask them why they have no commercial photography. I believe that commercial photography and portrait photography are different. I would call and just ask why...Y

Wow thats a kicker. I think as far as I know my taxes pay for these public areas to be taken care of. If I'm a resident I pay taxes. That should be enough. In Canada we get taxed up the wazzooo. Municiple,provincial,federal tax. Tax when I buy,spend save,earn. Enough with the dang taxes.

Gryphon5 wrote:In Canada we get taxed up the wazzooo. Municiple,provincial,federal tax. Tax when I buy,spend save,earn. Enough with the dang taxes.

Generally not all that much. And, in general Canadians get a lot of bang for the buck.

That permit system Yvette described seems reasonable if it is enforced at all.

Wow, what a easy way to create a distinctive portfolio - to shoot in the same location as everyone else. I particularly like the cattle call feeling it gives the clients.

tomKphoto wrote:
Wow, what a easy way to create a distinctive portfolio - to shoot in the same location as everyone else. I particularly like the cattle call feeling it gives the clients.

Dah, well where do suppose you go and shoot? There are basically 4 parks and I give the bride the choice. Just because we use the same parks doesn't mean that my work looks like everyone elses. Do you have your own personal outdoor studio with beautiful tress and shrub? Do you have roses blooming in May, and azaleas blooming in April? What about a waterfall? Do you have one? Just curious where you shoot? Do you fly your brides to exotic locations? I think I made my point. Yvette

Folks that complain about the parks being a public place just don't get it. The problem is that it is public and you end up with way too many people trying to play "professional" photographer and use the land. You then have a ton of people taking the space of those who may be on a simple picnic, relaxing, jogging, etc. So yeah, I get the idea of paying for the permit. You should too and not look at it as "my tax dollars and I can do what I want". They are actually protecting your tax dollars by cutting down the number of people taking space from your family time.

Peace,
Cordell

tomKphoto wrote:
Wow, what a easy way to create a distinctive portfolio - to shoot in the same location as everyone else. I particularly like the cattle call feeling it gives the clients.

An element of truth here.

RedWhiteandRed wrote:
tomKphoto wrote:
Wow, what a easy way to create a distinctive portfolio - to shoot in the same location as everyone else. I particularly like the cattle call feeling it gives the clients.

An element of truth here.


Do all studio shots look the same because they're made in a room with white painted walls

figmented wrote:
I'm curious about this actually.

I went to a location last weekend.. The Canals at Los Colinas in Texas.. There are NO COMMERCIAL PHOTOGRAPHY signs EVERYWHERE and it pisses me off because this is public property am i right?

Also there is a Photography Studio RIGHT SMACK in the middle of the canals. Salee Photography, some of you may of heard of them.. they are like 10-15k wedding photogs.

Anyways.. Am I not allowed to shoot there then? Or do i say screw it, shoot there, and get good shots or what??

Personally, if I went to a park to shoot, and found out u need a permit to shoot there.. I would shoot there anyways, and say screw it.. but that's me.. free country huh?

And why only a few parks have permits, but others dont? double standard? Just seems like a lot of BS to me.

Well thats real professional of you........." Permits, regulations, licenses, SCREW IT.....NO ONE can tell ME what to do".............

This is the same attitude that created an uproar in Laguna and Newport Beach with photographers fighting for shooting space......and the public complaining about them......so the cities started enforcing their permit process........and issuing citations for those who failed to purchase a shooting permit........
How cheap can one be ? You are making money yet won't spend beer money on a permit..........

It's always the few who screw things up for everyone else............


Edited by hassy501 on Mar 28, 2008 at 02:18 PM GMT

hassy501 wrote:
Well thats real professional of you........." Permits, regulations, licenses, SCREW IT.....NO ONE can tell ME what to do".............


Even less professional when you get hauled to the station right in front of your client, not the kind of image I'd want my business to have personally, but YMMV

Chris

Chris Beaumont wrote:
hassy501 wrote:
Well thats real professional of you........." Permits, regulations, licenses, SCREW IT.....NO ONE can tell ME what to do".............


Even less professional when you get hauled to the station right in front of your client, not the kind of image I'd want my business to have personally, but YMMV

Chris


Amen to that.....or being issued a cite in front of your clients.......i've seen that happen........

Obviously photographers shoot at a location because it's nice........well it has to be nice for a reason.........because it's well maintained......and that doesn't come free...........

As far as the argument that " My taxes pay for that already"..........partly true........it all depends if it's a "private property" entity open to the public........some beaches are ..........some are state, some are county........some charge parking fees..........are you going to refuse to pay that ?

RedWhiteandRed wrote:
tomKphoto wrote:
Wow, what a easy way to create a distinctive portfolio - to shoot in the same location as everyone else. I particularly like the cattle call feeling it gives the clients.

An element of truth here.



MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !

To the every body shoots here note, true and yet there will be hundreds of weddings @ the Catholic church in town, my images will be and are different from others. Same with reception halls. True finding a little known gem of a location is wonderful.
To me, it is more about being creative w/ in a given location.

And Yvette, these photogs are probably avoiding the state fees. I was amazed a couple of weeks ago, I had two events on a Sat. A two hour corp event @ 10am and a wedding @ 5. The corp event time was changed and I was unable to cover. I told the client that I would do my best to locate another photog. It took 7 calls to find a photog I know that had both a bus lic and liability. Some of these folks are financially successful, however that is not how I roll....

Double your prices and keep being creative whichever park...