Mustang Air to Air: The Sequel
/forum/topic/600984/3812

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Aero_70
Registered: Sep 24, 2011
Total Posts: 90
Country: United States

Glen those are crazy!



Jeff W.
Registered: Feb 09, 2008
Total Posts: 2444
Country: United States

FlyingPhotog wrote:
stevez wrote:
A sad but necessary end to an inglorious chapter in Blue Angels and U.S. Navy history. I guess the lessons of the Tailhook scandal were lost on Capt. McWherter.

http://wapo.st/1hbxqaH


I think you have to file this unfortunate situation under the heading "You Can't Go Home Again"

Personally, I can't imagine the stress McWherter was under on his second tour to come in and salvage the season after the previous CO screwed the pooch so badly. I can kind of understand the notion of "wanting to belong" because it was NOT his team anymore.

Maybe he didn't rule with enough iron in his fists, but frankly, I'll take a little "Frat House" over the potential for four or six furrows in the earth.


Jay; are you suggesting that McWherter's failure to lead the BA's ethically and correctly was necessary to avoid a catastrophic crash? The BA's can't fly their routines without members of the unit behaving so unacceptably? This isn't a little "Frat House". This is failure of command - period.



ELinder
Registered: Feb 14, 2010
Total Posts: 1071
Country: United States

stevez wrote:
Weird goings on concerning Amazon and Drobo. I wanted to order another Drobo 5D with 5x4TB hard drives. I could have saved $100 by installing the drives myself, but Amazon would only sell me four of them (they imposed a limit of four drives per customer). So I ordered the 5D with the drives already installed. The package arrived on Monday, but when I opened the box I found a 5D shell with no hard drives in it. I checked the order: yep, I ordered and paid for a Drobo 5D with 5x4TB hard drives. I checked the box it came in: yep, the box said it contained a Drobo 5D with 5x4TB hard drives pre-installed. I checked again: nope, there were no hard drives in the Drobo case, and no hard drives anywhere else in the big shipping box, either.

So I arranged to return this useless Drobo; Amazon claimed they would send me a replacement right away, and wouldn't charge my account again unless my return didn't reach them by July 2. But today, the status of the replacement order went from a delivery estimate of tomorrow to a new window of July 8 - August 11.

I have a bad feeling about this...


I bought my Drobo from B&H Photo/Video http://www.bhphotovideo.com

I've bought a bunch of stuff from them, always gotten excellent service and help.

Erich



msalvetti
Registered: Dec 20, 2003
Total Posts: 3167
Country: United States

Rodolfo Paiz wrote:
@ Wrei, the wireless can be added on at any time. No big deal, it's something like $35 or $40 and just pops in.

@ Mark, I can't tell you about the benefits to those who already know how to do things. I bought mine in order to help me learn how to do better, with less grief and less effort. I spend so little time on photography that I still have trouble using it, but I definitely prefer retouching with a pen to a mouse now.


Thanks Wrei and Rodolfo. I may just give it a try.

BTW Rodolfo, glad to you have you back, even though it sounds temporary. Good luck in all your endeavors, I don't know how manage to do everything. Make sure you take care of yourself.

Mark



FlyingPhotog
Registered: May 09, 2008
Total Posts: 4775
Country: United States

Jeff W. wrote:

Jay; are you suggesting that McWherter's failure to lead the BA's ethically and correctly was necessary to avoid a catastrophic crash? The BA's can't fly their routines without members of the unit behaving so unacceptably? This isn't a little "Frat House". This is failure of command - period.


Not at all...

What I'm saying is that the desire to not upset the apple cart was a large contributing factor.

If you walk in and take over an operation that, on the surface, appears to be operating just fine, but you didn't build it, then the natural instinct is to not mess with it.

Are you saying that risking having pilots in anything but the best possible frame of mind is an ok way to fly tactical jets only 18" apart?

I think McWherter was damned if he did and damned if he didn't. If he came in and played the heavy, he risked the overall esprit de corps (which could, in fact, be dangerous) so he played it hands off and the nonsense escalated.

The fact that the BAs are the leading edge of Naval Aviation is a double edged sword. Yes, they should do it better and cleaner than the rest of the Navy, but you're mixing the most capital of Type A personalities where chemistry has to be much more than half the battle.

Even command authority wants to avoid being "that guy" .. It's human nature.



FlyingPhotog
Registered: May 09, 2008
Total Posts: 4775
Country: United States

I know the above is true because I've experienced instances of directors and producers taking over broadcast crews which worked together under other people for a number of years. 99% of the time, the new guy comes in, acknowledges the history they're invading and basically says "You guys and gals know what you need to do, so go do it. I'll lead from the rear."

I'll bet you my 500mm it's exactly the same deal with McWhereter.



Wrei
Registered: Aug 01, 2008
Total Posts: 2939
Country: United States

I cannot understand their obsession with the phallus. We always did say those Navy guys were weird...too much time with each other on ships I guess...not that there is anything wrong with that!



FlyingPhotog
Registered: May 09, 2008
Total Posts: 4775
Country: United States

I got nuthin' for that Wrei...



msalvetti
Registered: Dec 20, 2003
Total Posts: 3167
Country: United States

Don't miss the D-Day Sacrifice shows on National Geographic channel. It's playing now. The first episode is the landings, the second takes you up to the liberation of Paris. Some incredible archival footage. I've never seen most of it.

Mark



Jeff W.
Registered: Feb 09, 2008
Total Posts: 2444
Country: United States

I'm sorry Jay, but I can't agree with your rationale or conclusions. McWhereter was not going to flush his career by by being an ethical leader. He got dumped for a total failure to command as he was trained. This kind of behavior is exactly what gives the military a black eye that lasts a long time. Not only does this smack of the 'Tail Hook' scandal, McWhereter was helping run the Tail Hook org for goodness sakes. Don't these guys learn?

Someone needs to help me understand why aberent behavior is a critical element of flying 18-inches apart?

This behavior will not be tolerated going forward, so McWhereter's tolerance and encouragement didn't accomplish squat. The BA's will have to clean up there act via a delayed heavy hand.



Rodolfo Paiz
Registered: Jan 07, 2007
Total Posts: 9906
Country: United States

msalvetti wrote:
BTW Rodolfo, glad to you have you back, even though it sounds temporary. Good luck in all your endeavors, I don't know how manage to do everything. Make sure you take care of yourself.


A special toast tonight, then, to there being nothing temporary about this group! We few, we very few, we band of brothers, have sworn ourselves to friendship everlasting; and I will not be he who breaks that faith. (With due apologies to the Bard and to the fairer half among us, of course!)

St. Crispin's Day aside, I'm not very good at "getting everything done" at all, which is why I need to disappear sometimes! I'm getting better at doing less as I get older (and hopefully wiser), but doing a better job of each individual task. And I'm getting better at playing to my strengths and teaming up with other people to cover the areas where I'm weak. So in the end, more things are getting done, and done better, but largely because I'm failing less. (Still batting less than .250, of course... but less.)

Rest assured that the blind squirrel and I are very close relatives indeed.



FlyingPhotog
Registered: May 09, 2008
Total Posts: 4775
Country: United States

Jeff W. wrote:
I'm sorry Jay, but I can't agree with your rationale or conclusions. McWhereter was not going to flush his career by by being an ethical leader. He got dumped for a total failure to command as he was trained. This kind of behavior is exactly what gives the military a black eye that lasts a long time. Not only does this smack of the 'Tail Hook' scandal, McWhereter was helping run the Tail Hook org for goodness sakes. Don't these guys learn?

Someone needs to help me understand why aberent behavior is a critical element of flying 18-inches apart?

This behavior will not be tolerated going forward, so McWhereter's tolerance and encouragement didn't accomplish squat. The BA's will have to clean up there act via a delayed heavy hand.


We'll have to leave it at that then...

You can hang the man, but you can't deny he faced a Hobson's Choice not of his own making. He was tasked with salvaging the season. Maybe they should have just grounded the team for the rest of that year.



Glenn Watson
Registered: Nov 13, 2007
Total Posts: 3835
Country: United States

I've only casually followed the Boss McWhorter stuff - does him taking over have anything to do with the deal that happen mid season a few years ago that caused the Blues to fly 3-ships for the rest of the season?



FlyingPhotog
Registered: May 09, 2008
Total Posts: 4775
Country: United States

Glenn Watson wrote:
I've only casually followed the Boss McWhorter stuff - does him taking over have anything to do with the deal that happen mid season a few years ago that caused the Blues to fly 3-ships for the rest of the season?




I think you're mixing events...

The Blues dismissed the #4 pilot and another team member in 2006 for an "inappropriate relationship" They finished that season with five jets instead of six.

May of 2011, the diamond busted altitude minimums and the CO resigned prompting the Navy to ask McWherter to return as CO.



FlyingPhotog
Registered: May 09, 2008
Total Posts: 4775
Country: United States

Kyle Franklin in the Waco JMF-7 "Mystery Ship"



stevezzzz
Registered: Aug 01, 2010
Total Posts: 4084
Country: United States

FlyingPhotog wrote:
I know the above is true because I've experienced instances of directors and producers taking over broadcast crews which worked together under other people for a number of years. 99% of the time, the new guy comes in, acknowledges the history they're invading and basically says "You guys and gals know what you need to do, so go do it. I'll lead from the rear."

I'll bet you my 500mm it's exactly the same deal with McWhereter.


I understand your point concerning Boss McWherter's dilemma, but there is no way, even leading from the rear, that an effective commander countenances a giant phallus painted on top of a trailer, not in the most publicly visible unit in the Navy. Sure, he would have been unpopular had he cleaned up the Blues' act but, for crying out loud, it's supposed to be lonely at the top.

As it stands, his inability to balance the tactical need to lead with a light hand and the strategic need to rein in inappropriate behavior has brought a likely end to his career and disgrace onto the Navy.



stevezzzz
Registered: Aug 01, 2010
Total Posts: 4084
Country: United States

FlyingPhotog wrote:
Kyle Franklin in the Waco JMF-7 "Mystery Ship"


That earns a 'Wow!' from me, Jay. Hats off, gentlemen: the master is at work...



NightOwl Cat
Registered: Feb 19, 2007
Total Posts: 9318
Country: United States

Having just read the 63 page report --> http://www.cpf.navy.mil/foia/reading-room/2014/06/blue-angels.pdf I'd say he is lucky if they aren't going to make a huge example of him. He was definitely not a leader, but encouraged said behavior. Findings of Fact start on page 24. It sounds like the Ready Room was a cross between Porky's and Animal House.



msalvetti
Registered: Dec 20, 2003
Total Posts: 3167
Country: United States

It didn't take another incident like this or the repeated sexual harassment issues we keep hearing about for me to continue wondering what kind of culture the military has fostered. I have a female friend that works for a defense contractor, and she's often in offsite training sessions with active duty personnel. She's married, they're often married. But they still make advances on her all the time.

When you have top level commanders getting caught with their pants down, it doesn't do much to discourage that behavior from their subordinates.

I know this stuff happens everywhere, but it seems to be far more common with the military than it is in the business world. At least my business world.

Mark



stevezzzz
Registered: Aug 01, 2010
Total Posts: 4084
Country: United States

It's been that way for a long, long time, too, Mark. I met an active-duty female Army captain when we were both in our twenties and had the chance to spend a little time with her. She let me know how foreign to her world it was that I hadn't made sexual advances on her.



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