Sorry for the long post, but I could use some advice.

I'm an amateur (meaning I don't get paid to take photos), but I enjoy photography immensely.

My current gear is: 50d body; 24-70 L lens; 70-200 2.8 IS L lens; 50 1.8.; 580 ex flash

The 24-70 is on my camera most of the time and I mostly shoot candids and portraits of my kids (ages 8 and 10), my family, and our friends. During soccer season and tae kwon do belt testing, I do shoot some action shots. Also, at different events, piano recitals, school plays, etc., the lighting is very dark and I do shoot some with the help of a monopod.

I love shooting portraits, and I love making my pictures interesting. I take advantage of the rule of thirds, and I like candid moments. I also have been known to shoot at like 45 degree angles to make the shot more interesting, or to help tell the story (like convey motion, etc). When I shoot, I play with the focus points a lot. I will often shift and have the focus point on the left outermost focus, or if I'm composing a shot and the subject is on the right side, I will then have the focus point on the right outermost focus. I sometimes will have the focus point be on the top or sometimes on the center.

I used to center-focus and re-compose, but then I found it faster to just make the focus point on the one I wanted and then shoot away, so I have gotten away from focusing and re-composing as the center of the frame not often the part I want to emphasize being in focus (the face, for example).

I'm interested in upgrading to full frame. I almost pulled the trigger on the 5d mark iii a number of times (always seem to miss those ebay sales from authorized retailers), and I'm intrigued by the 6d. Here are some of the things I'm considering in no particular order:

1. Autofocus points: I don't really know what cross-type auto focus points are and whether I need 1 or 11. I don't know if I need all the autofocus points of the 5d mark iii. Is the autofocusing system on the 5dm3 really confusing?
2. FPS: The faster fps of the 5dm3 is interesting, but for soccer and tae kwon do, I may revert to the 50d for the longer reach the crop sensor provides (although if I get more keepers and better lower light performance on the 6d or 5dm3, who knows).
3. Video: I'm really interested in being able to shoot video with my SLR as there have been many times I wished I could do so.
4. Weight: the 24-70 is a brick and I off-set it with a sling harness that takes a bit of the weight off. However, after a long-day at Disneyland, I definitely feel it the next day.
5. Wifi: The idea of wifi in the 6d sounds great. There are many times, I shoot a great pic of friends or my kids and I would like to share them. That's one of the advantages of taking pictures with the iPhone, is that I can immediately message them to the intended recipient and share the love. This sounds like a neat function. Of course, I can do it the old fashioned way, which is transfer to computer and then e-mail them out, but I lose the instant gratification.
6. Price: Of course the 6d is about a grand cheaper and I could use the money to either buy the 24-105 lens which is a lot lighter or for other things. A grand is a lot of money, even today.
7. Low-light: I wish (maybe because i don't know), that either camera had an on-board flash. The pictures are never as nice as when I bounce the flash from an external, but there are times, I would rather be able to capture the moment with a less than ideal flash, then not have it. Maybe the low-light performance of both cameras is so great I don't need it, but I'm a bit skeptical. Kids move fast and I don't often have time to dig out the external flash, put it on, and then shoot before the moment is lost.

As I indicated, I'm also thinking about buying the 24-105 lens especially if I can crank up the ISO and still get great shots without needing the faster glass of the 24-70 due simply to weight issues.

So, if 90% of my shots are of my children, my family, and our friends, is there a clear winner for me? I've been reading the forums for months and I'm only more confused now. Some days I think 5dm3 is the way to go. Others 6d. I'm really confused.

Thanks in advance! Happy New Year!
Rich

Since you shoot action and use the off center points, the 5DIII is a better choice (superior AF/tracking and higher FPS). I doubt you will need the reach of your 50D once you start looking at your 5DIII shots. You can crop and get somewhat close to the reach and high ISO is superior. I was on 5DII and doing tons of focus recompose, so happy now with this new AF system on the 5DIII.

The 6D is great overall, but I see it catering especially to videographers and people who want wifi for viewing on external devices such as iPads while shooting. This is really a landscape/low angle/macro/studio situation that would make the most use of that feature, not field sports, concerts and events.

Buy the 6D with 24-105mm for $2700:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/892354-REG/Canon_8035b009_EOS_6D_Digital_Camera.html

Interesting how people that have probably never used the 6D can claim it has inferior AF/tracking to a 5DIII or that it is not as good for field sports, concerts, and events.

Another vote from amateur hobbyist also, I'm finding the 6D to be quite intriguing. From some of the recent threads with photo's, I'd say go for it, and pick up a nice lens with the other $$.

Imagemaster wrote:
Buy the 6D with 24-105mm for $2700:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/892354-REG/Canon_8035b009_EOS_6D_Digital_Camera.html

Interesting how people that have probably never used the 6D can claim it has inferior AF/tracking to a 5DIII or that it is not as good for field sports, concerts, and events.

That is fair. I have not used a 6D. I am comparing my experience with the 5DII AF to the 5DIII as the 5DII and 6D are similar systems in regards to complexity and number of points. I know the 6D system is better than a 5DII, but the 5DIII system is night and day better than my 5DII was especially for off center points and options for tracking. I never said the 6D can't do field sports etc I was saying wifi teathering is as not much use in those situations. Heck I used my 5DII for crazy stuff for years.

Imagemaster wrote:
Buy the 6D with 24-105mm for $2700:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/892354-REG/Canon_8035b009_EOS_6D_Digital_Camera.html

Interesting how people that have probably never used the 6D can claim it has inferior AF/tracking to a 5DIII or that it is not as good for field sports, concerts, and events.

Have you used the 6D though for sports/tracking?
It goes both ways.

I haven't really seen any comments about how it handles that sort of stuff.

Imagemaster wrote:
Buy the 6D with 24-105mm for $2700:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/892354-REG/Canon_8035b009_EOS_6D_Digital_Camera.html

Interesting how people that have probably never used the 6D can claim it has inferior AF/tracking to a 5DIII or that it is not as good for field sports, concerts, and events.

Or if you're Canadian, get the same kit from Aden Camera for $2490. Add to the cart to see the special price.

http://www.adencamera.com/product-overviewer.asp?ProdID=4167&Category=6

Imagemaster wrote:
Buy the 6D with 24-105mm for $2700:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/892354-REG/Canon_8035b009_EOS_6D_Digital_Camera.html

Interesting how people that have probably never used the 6D can claim it has inferior AF/tracking to a 5DIII or that it is not as good for field sports, concerts, and events.

Absolutely spot on...well...my only thought would be the 24-105 lens choice, it's hands-down a fantastic lens, but if finances are good, you might consider waiting a bit on the lens and look at the new 24-70 f4L IS.

Although it's heavy, you've already got a great 24-70 that will work fine for a few months, I'd wait and look at the new 24-70. It's much smaller and lighter than both older lenses, has the new hibrib 5-stop IS system of the 100L macro; which is really sweet for hand holding. It's small size, I think, would fit well with the smaller/lighter 6D body.

I'm in much the same situation, 40D/50D, a nice but consumer level 24-85, do I get the 6D with the 105 with it's extra mm, or the new 70 with less mm but the newer IS...if lower price and the extra mm's is important then the 6D/24-105 kit is pretty fine gears

I like lighter/smaller lenses; have the 70-200 f4L IS instead of the f2.8. I'm leaning toward using my current lens kit, getting the 6D body only. In the future, adding the new 24-70 f4L IS to my current kit seems the perfect; if there is one, trinity of lenses...17-40, 24-70, 70-200...add the 100 f2.8L IS macro and I'd be a very happy hobbyist
Do enjoy whatever you get, and Happy New Year

Jerry

Oh, as for the 5D3, it looks sweet, the new AF seems amazing, it's without a doubt a complex, kickasre body, has lots of extras and I'm sure it would be fantastic.

skibum5 wrote:Have you used the 6D though for sports/tracking?
It goes both ways.

I never claimed I have used a 6D, nor did I claim it was better, equal, or worse did I

StillFingerz wrote:

Absolutely spot on...well...my only thought would be the 24-105 lens choice, it's hands-down a fantastic lens, but if finances are good, you might consider waiting a bit on the lens and look at the new 24-70 f4L IS.

Although it's heavy, you've already got a great 24-70 that will work fine for a few months, I'd wait and look at the new 24-70. It's much smaller and lighter than both older lenses, has the new hibrib 5-stop IS system of the 100L macro; which is really sweet for hand holding. It's small size, I think, would fit well with the smaller/lighter 6D body.

Except he may not like the FOV of the 24-70 on his crop body as much as on a FF body.

Hah! And here I thought posting this might "clarify" my decision. After reading the responses, I'm still torn.

I do use the off-center points for focusing and I do have occasional uses for sports type photography so that seems to tilt in favor of the 5dm3. If I had to guess, I would say the majority of my shots are set with the focus points off-center. Does cross-point focus make that big of a difference?

The 6d is no doubt an upgrade from my 50d in almost every respect. I have no idea if I will like the way full frame looks. I'm hoping I will. The things that seem to favor the 6d are price, simpler controls, and wifi (although that may be a bit gimicky, I bet all future cameras will have this as that seems to be the way the world is going. In a perfect world, I would wait for the second gen wifi, but I'm itching to upgrade the body now).

Aack. Decisions decisions. I guess this is one of those "fun" difficult decisions...

I really liked full frame a lot when I upgraded from crop. It is pretty awesome! Your 24-70 is a perfect all around lens on ff. The heaver bodies can counterweight the 24-70 a bit and make it feel a bit better.

Yes cross type sensors matter. The detect contrast changes both vertically and horizontally. In essence they are twice as good I am sure people will argue that point and that is fine.

Imagemaster wrote:
StillFingerz wrote:

Absolutely spot on...well...my only thought would be the 24-105 lens choice, it's hands-down a fantastic lens, but if finances are good, you might consider waiting a bit on the lens and look at the new 24-70 f4L IS.

Although it's heavy, you've already got a great 24-70 that will work fine for a few months, I'd wait and look at the new 24-70. It's much smaller and lighter than both older lenses, has the new hibrib 5-stop IS system of the 100L macro; which is really sweet for hand holding. It's small size, I think, would fit well with the smaller/lighter 6D body.

Except he may not like the FOV of the 24-70 on his crop body as much as on a FF body.

I'm kinda lost IM, do explain, 24-70 vs 24-105...the 105 is what you recommended? That's why I included in another paragraph, if the extra mm 35 in this case were important, then the 24-105 was the best bet...

I'm lost but that's not unusual
Happy NY

StillFingerz wrote:

I'm kinda lost IM, do explain, 24-70 vs 24-105...the 105 is what you recommended? That's why I included in another paragraph, if the extra mm 35 in this case were important, then the 24-105 was the best bet...



The 24-70 on full-frame is like 38-112 on his 50D.

Imagemaster wrote:
skibum5 wrote:Have you used the 6D though for sports/tracking?
It goes both ways.

I never claimed I have used a 6D, nor did I claim it was better, equal, or worse did I

Not directly but you felt confident enough to tell him to buy the 6D and provided a link so.... How is that any different than someone speculating that it won't be ideal for his rule of thirds portraits and sports action and providing a 5D3 rec and link? That's what I meant.

Imagemaster wrote:
StillFingerz wrote:

I'm kinda lost IM, do explain, 24-70 vs 24-105...the 105 is what you recommended? That's why I included in another paragraph, if the extra mm 35 in this case were important, then the 24-105 was the best bet...



The 24-70 on full-frame is like 38-112 on his 50D.


Ah yes...kinda figured the OP knew that since he has a cropper and was interested in moving to FF...
Good point tho, I forget some didn't shoot in old school film dayz

Ghostrdr wrote:
Hah! And here I thought posting this might "clarify" my decision. After reading the responses, I'm still torn.

I do use the off-center points for focusing and I do have occasional uses for sports type photography so that seems to tilt in favor of the 5dm3. If I had to guess, I would say the majority of my shots are set with the focus points off-center. Does cross-point focus make that big of a difference?

The 6d is no doubt an upgrade from my 50d in almost every respect. I have no idea if I will like the way full frame looks. I'm hoping I will. The things that seem to favor the 6d are price, simpler controls, and wifi (although that may be a bit gimicky, I bet all future cameras will have this as that seems to be the way the world is going. In a perfect world, I would wait for the second gen wifi, but I'm itching to upgrade the body now).

Aack. Decisions decisions. I guess this is one of those "fun" difficult decisions...

5D3 no question when you need the outer points...cross type help a ton, and with the 5D3's 61pnt system, zone and point expansion, I'd think you'd be set... Go to a local camera store 1st, both AF systems are very different. It's REALLY IMPORTANT you try both AF systems before you buy. The 6D is old school red rectangle conform AF, the 5D3 isn't.

The 7D, 5D3 and 1DX use black boxes as AF points, only the 1DX has red rectangle AF confirm kind of like your 50D or the 6D...and it's an add-on/fix via firmware and so far Canon hasn't said if the 5D3 will get or can use the 1Dx fix...

Did the 6D end up having central point AI Servo assists like the 5D2 or not?

skibum5 wrote:
Did the 6D end up having central point AI Servo assists like the 5D2 or not?

I've not seen any info that says it does...
Specs on canon's website list them for the 5D2, but there is no line item for the 6D...so I'd guess not.
I'm good with center point recompose tho, but its a mechanical issue with my paralyzed fingers, just can't switch AF points easily.

Here's a link to the FroKnows guy, Jared Polin's recent 6D review...he's not that thrilled with the 6D's AF, but really likes the rest of it's features.

Jared is a Nikon user/shooter and IMO Nikon has kinda kicked Canon's non-pro body AF arse for a while...a link to his D600 review is below as well...the D600 is kind of goofy also, all AF points are crammed into the center, unlike the 6D's which are a bit more spread out...but if they don't work for shite guess it's a toss up...get the 5D3.

6D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r60yqmkjeNk

D600
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2FGu2WDvJY

Ok, I decided on the 5d Mark III. Hopefully, I won't have any regrets.

Buy Dig (an authorized retailer) is having an ebay sale for a little less than the going rates.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-III-22-3-MP-Digital-SLR-Body-Only-/330851049419

$2899.

Happy New Year everyone.
Rich