einstein flash head slipping on D600 boom arm stud
/forum/topic/1177553/0

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jzucker
Registered: Jan 07, 2002
Total Posts: 2451
Country: United States

I'm using einstein and either a kacey 22" beauty dish or 24x36 softbox on a boom set at 90 degrees. What seems to happen is that the einstein set screw doesn't grab even when torqued down (by hand) as tight as I can get it.

I have found this product which seems to improve things quite a bit but wondering if anyone has any other solutions?

http://www.adorama.com/1/1/43121-kupo-g005912-baby-5-8-16mm-receiver-kg005912.html



PeterBerressem
Registered: Sep 05, 2007
Total Posts: 729
Country: Germany

What' s ending the boom? A standard spigot 5/8 stud? I suppose that your problem is not slipping off of the head but it's rotating around the stud... well, in such a case I use a file to make a "flat" in the stud and let the set screw rest there.



tedwca
Registered: Dec 31, 2002
Total Posts: 306
Country: United States

The baby drop down solution is the best way to go. Ever since I found them I use them for anything that has to be boomed. It allows much more control and the ability to angle the light more reliably than just attaching to the boom with a flat spot filed into the stud. It also keeps the angle of the light consistent as you change the angle of the boom as it swings with gravity.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/153413-REG/Avenger_E700_E700_Baby_Drop.html



Waki
Registered: Jan 02, 2012
Total Posts: 187
Country: United States

That baby drop is slick. Thanks.



Steve Wylie
Registered: Feb 13, 2007
Total Posts: 1153
Country: United States

The baby drop down solution is the best way to go. Ever since I found them I use them for anything that has to be boomed. It allows much more control and the ability to angle the light more reliably than just attaching to the boom with a flat spot filed into the stud. It also keeps the angle of the light consistent as you change the angle of the boom as it swings with gravity.

I'm confused. I've seen this recommendation before, but I don't understand how this works. Can you explain a bit more how to use it effectively?

Thanks.



jzucker
Registered: Jan 07, 2002
Total Posts: 2451
Country: United States

Yes Peter, I standard 5/8 stud and filing flat would be a good solution



jzucker
Registered: Jan 07, 2002
Total Posts: 2451
Country: United States

I don't see how baby drop would work better than the device I mentioned



erichard
Registered: Nov 27, 2005
Total Posts: 645
Country: United States

If you want to buy the stud with the flat area already done for you, I bought this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-4-and-3-8-Spigot-Stud-Adapter-Male-Screw-Threaded-/220703778711?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3362f86797

That's the cheapest deal, coming on a slow boat from China of course (bought a couple at that price, $4).

Those aren't bad when you don't want to add a lot of weight on the boom due to weight limits. The lightweight boom setups, like the Manfrotto 420 combo boom/stand (which would be great for location shots with that Kacey dish), probably aren't where those drop down pins are being used, as they add just under a pound and a half to the end. With these flattened studs, one issue is that in order to turn the head/softbox, you need to loosen the boom extension and twist that, since the stud is more or less fixed (that double ended stud is flattened for both ends). That can be problematic if you have a lot of weight on the end, though the Kacey/Einstein set up is pretty light, relatively speaking.

The reviews for that Avenger drop pin also suggest you need a longish stud on the boom in order for it to clamp down properly. People were saying they had to add another stud to get it to work, though I suspect it works with the D600 boom (I'm sure someone here knows right off). I'm looking to get a drop down pin myself for my D600 boom.

The other choice seems to be one by Matthews, which costs more but is a smidgeon lighter (1.25lbs) and may or may not clamp on to standard 5/8" studs (dunno):

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/33152-REG/Matthews_427804_Baby_Drop_Down.html

For studio booms, the drop down pin sounds like a must have to me, bottom line.



jzucker
Registered: Jan 07, 2002
Total Posts: 2451
Country: United States

ERichard, are you sure the stud/spigot adapter comes off the D600 boom? I think the stud my be machined out of the tubing or welded on.



erichard
Registered: Nov 27, 2005
Total Posts: 645
Country: United States

Right, the D600 spigot is fixed and I do think the drop down pin will work with it, but someone else needs to verify that as I can't say with certainty. I think for other, smaller booms, it might be a different story (ie, not fixed and too short, and these are the ones people got a new spigot in order to use the drop down pin). That spigot on the D600 looks long to me, long enough. I think the main issue is getting that end deep enough into the drop down pin's hole, where the screw clamp can grasp it. I looked at the D600 before posting earlier, and to my imagination, it looks like it will work. Just read the reviews on B&H for the Avenger and the Matthews.

I haven't used one yet, but I get the picture that many people don't appreciate how it works, which is why you posted you don't see why it's better. The key is, you only clamp on to the studs. The hinge is not meant to be fixed or tightened down fully. The pin is basically meant to hang straight down (about) at all times, no matter what angle you have the boom relative to the ground (at least that is how I am picturing it). It's a completely different approach than the piece you mentioned in your original post, just to clarify.



jzucker
Registered: Jan 07, 2002
Total Posts: 2451
Country: United States

i'm not talking about the drop down. I'm talking about using the chinese spigot/stud your referenced in the first link. Unless I'm mistaken, I cannot remove the stud on the D600.

It seems to me that any approach that relies on a single screw to hold onto the stud without the stud being filed flat is going to have the same issue. Putting an additional mechanism onto the end of the existing stud won't solve the problem unless the female mount on the adapter has an additional screw or something to keep it from rotating.



erichard
Registered: Nov 27, 2005
Total Posts: 645
Country: United States

The Chinese one is used on my 420 combo boom. The drop down pin on the D600 should solve your problems as much as they can be solved I'm guessing, as it doesn't matter if the clamp twists around that spigot on the D600, since the drop pin will be vertical regardless (ie. 90 degrees to the floor in all directions). The connection at the D600 spigot becomes irrelevant (assuming the drop down pin actually fits the D600, which I guess it will), and there is no need for a flattened spigot there.

Maybe someone else, with actual experience can chime in on this point.



jzucker
Registered: Jan 07, 2002
Total Posts: 2451
Country: United States

so, erichard, I see what you're saying now. I just wonder about the sturdyness of that wingnut...



erichard
Registered: Nov 27, 2005
Total Posts: 645
Country: United States

Yes, some of the reviewers were not using the drop pin as it's meant to be used. They thought the wing nut at the hinge needed to be tightened down, which it doesn't. The wing nut merely is there so the bolt that serves as the hinge doesn't fall out. That hinge is meant to be moderately loose.



jzucker
Registered: Jan 07, 2002
Total Posts: 2451
Country: United States

i still don't think it solves the problem which is that the einstein receiver holds the flash head loose. I don't think i trust it to hold the flash on upside down like that. I think a better solution is to file the stud flat on one side.



BrianO
Registered: Aug 21, 2008
Total Posts: 8527
Country: United States

jzucker wrote: i still don't think it solves the problem which is that the einstein receiver holds the flash head loose. I don't think i trust it to hold the flash on upside down like that.

I think the "lip" on the end of the pin would keep the bolt on the Einstein captured, preventing the Einstein from falling off. Without a flat to bear against, it might still rotate -- were the pin horizontal -- but since it's vertical it should be fine.

Filing a flat is still a good idea, though; lot's of reasons to do it, and only manufacturing ease not to do it.



erichard
Registered: Nov 27, 2005
Total Posts: 645
Country: United States

Consider a precautionary safety cable in case it fails, but I imagine many folks are doing it this way.

The main issue with filing flat is, you are stuck in that orientation for that specific joint. If that's OK, then OK. If it needs to rotate around that drop pin, then filing flat may not be productive. I think I'd rather it be able to rotate 360 degrees around that drop pin. Locking it there will not be as difficult as your original issue, by far, since there is no weight forcing rotation. Is anybody filing that drop pin flat (the middle part of the 5/8 spigot)?



tedwca
Registered: Dec 31, 2002
Total Posts: 306
Country: United States

The drop baby is always 90* to the ground no matter what angle the boom is at and you can use the built in tilt to adjust the actual angle of the light. It also gives you more clearance to tilt a large modifier than attaching it directly to the boom. The lip on the pin prevents the light from sliding off unless you have a defective mount.

The way you are mounting it will change the angle of the modifier when you change the angle of the boom. The wing nut should be slightly loose to allow it to swing when the boom is adjusted. If you try it you'll never use the other method again. Really



tetrode
Registered: Apr 02, 2004
Total Posts: 433
Country: United States

Another vote for the drop down pin.



The Avenger E700 works perfectly with the fixed stud on the end of a D600 mini boom.



jzucker
Registered: Jan 07, 2002
Total Posts: 2451
Country: United States

ok, haha. I'll order one.



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