Einstein's color temp seems to be off
/forum/topic/1170456/0

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jzucker
Registered: Jan 07, 2002
Total Posts: 2515
Country: United States

I have it set for constant color mode and it says it's shooting at 5600 but when I use a expodisc or grey card, it white balances at ~5050.

I have several heads and I tried it with multiple heads and they're all about the same.

Anyone else experience this?

BTW, I'm shooting with a Buff 24x36 softbox with both diffusers. Softbox is new so it shouldn't be doing anything funny to the temp....



tedwca
Registered: Dec 31, 2002
Total Posts: 309
Country: United States

Softboxes always change the color temp in some way.



ravisrajan
Registered: May 04, 2012
Total Posts: 175
Country: United States

Zucker, Can you try with out softbox and test the color temp. I will test the same tonight and post what will be color temp with expo disc with out soft box



jzucker
Registered: Jan 07, 2002
Total Posts: 2515
Country: United States

It's not the softbox. I'm getting the same temp with my westcott softbox and color temp is perfect with using the westcott with my Elinchrom BXRI-500.

I agree that softbox changes the temp slightly but 500 degrees is off the charts



hondageek
Registered: Aug 16, 2004
Total Posts: 895
Country: United States

It's never going to be exactly 5600. The light hitting your expodisk is bouncing off everything in sight before it hits it. You aren't only getting light straight from the strobe. Who's to say that the expodisk is even perfectly neutral? Or your gray card? Modifiers will change your temps by a mile. Just look at the color of the diffuser fabric. It's not even close to white.

This whole issue doesn't matter anyway unless you want to be able to shoot everything you ever need to with your camera's wb set to daylight and never have to color correct anything. You're not actually trying to do that are you?



jzucker
Registered: Jan 07, 2002
Total Posts: 2515
Country: United States

hondageek wrote:
It's never going to be exactly 5600. The light hitting your expodisk is bouncing off everything in sight before it hits it. You aren't only getting light straight from the strobe. Who's to say that the expodisk is even perfectly neutral? Or your gray card? Modifiers will change your temps by a mile.


...Maybe you missed the fact that the elinchrom clocks in 500 points cooler with the same modifiers



ElliotD
Registered: Mar 05, 2012
Total Posts: 6
Country: N/A

jzucker wrote:
...Maybe you missed the fact that the elinchrom clocks in 500 points cooler with the same modifiers

At what power level? Change the level change the temp? Right?
Einstein will be way more consistent over the whole power range. Kinda important don't you think? Do you see a benefit?



jzucker
Registered: Jan 07, 2002
Total Posts: 2515
Country: United States

ElliotD wrote:
jzucker wrote:
...Maybe you missed the fact that the elinchrom clocks in 500 points cooler with the same modifiers

At what power level? Change the level change the temp? Right?
Einstein will be way more consistent over the whole power range. Kinda important don't you think? Do you see a benefit?


Except I haven't had any inconsistency issues with the Elinchrom stuff. i'm sure it varies over the power range but I've had very good luck with it balancing very close to 5600k.

I was hoping we could have a conversation without chest pounding ...



ravisrajan
Registered: May 04, 2012
Total Posts: 175
Country: United States

Here is what I found after my testing. Since I do not have soft box, I could not test soft box color shift.
I set my WB as flash for all this test to start with, picture are taken in Raw mode, imported into light room 4. No other setting/adjustment ware done, other then adjust WB as auto in light room, here are my finding.
Einstein kept about 8 foot in constant color mode for various power level.
Here are WB values displayed in light room after changing to auto from flash mode
Bare bulb - Color temp:5100 tint:0
Bare bulb with expo disc - 5500 tint:+5
8.5 inch high output reflector - 5300, tint 0
8.5 inch high out reflector with expo disc - 5650, tint - +7
Shot through umbrella - 6050, tint -0
Shot through umbrella with expo disc - 5700, tint -0
reflective umbrella - 6100, tint - 0
reflective umbrella with expo disc - 6050, tint -0
PLM with silver umbrella - 5500, tint -0
PLM with silver umbrella with expo disc - 5550, tint -0



ElliotD
Registered: Mar 05, 2012
Total Posts: 6
Country: N/A

Not chest ponding at all
Your saying when you tested your Elinchrom's there was not a 300 - 400 color shift from full to minimum power levels? You say it tested at 5600K at every setting? Is this the same method you used to test the Einstein?



jzucker
Registered: Jan 07, 2002
Total Posts: 2515
Country: United States

Thanks dude. Basically you corroborated what I'm seeing. 5100 for the bare bulb is within 1% of what I'm seeing. Good to know that my lights are not defective.



jzucker
Registered: Jan 07, 2002
Total Posts: 2515
Country: United States

ElliotD wrote:
Not chest ponding at all
Your saying when you tested your Elinchrom's there was not a 300 - 400 color shift from full to minimum power levels? You say it tested at 5600K at every setting? Is this the same method you used to test the Einstein?


I have not done a scientific test of either light.

I have used the einstein for 3 paid clients at a variety of power settings and it's been consistenly warm compared to it's claimed 5600K temp.

I don't know where you came up with 300-400k shift. I did mention 5050 which would be 550 delta

I never measured the elinchrom color temp until today because frankly it never felt was "off" from a standard 5600 camera setting. I do shoot in raw so I will typically "touch up" the WB in lightroom but in the studio, I rarely had to do anything since the camera's "as shot" flash WB setting was fine.



s14brent
Registered: May 09, 2008
Total Posts: 657
Country: United States

post them in b&s someone will happily buy them!



jared_irl
Registered: Dec 18, 2009
Total Posts: 232
Country: United States

s14brent wrote:
post them in b&s someone will happily buy them!


word. You seem to be having tons of problems with them.

I'll take them off of your hands, but since they don't work very well, you'll have to cut me a break on the price.



jzucker
Registered: Jan 07, 2002
Total Posts: 2515
Country: United States

jared_irl wrote:
s14brent wrote:
post them in b&s someone will happily buy them!


word. You seem to be having tons of problems with them.

I'll take them off of your hands, but since they don't work very well, you'll have to cut me a break on the price.


tons of problems? what are you talking about?



jared_irl
Registered: Dec 18, 2009
Total Posts: 232
Country: United States

jzucker wrote:
jared_irl wrote:
s14brent wrote:
post them in b&s someone will happily buy them!


word. You seem to be having tons of problems with them.

I'll take them off of your hands, but since they don't work very well, you'll have to cut me a break on the price.


tons of problems? what are you talking about?


just reading through the forum here, the top handful of threads all end with you complaining about your Einstein's.

In this thread, the color balance isn't as advertised.
In a different one, you aren't happy with the light strips.
In another one, the beauty dish doesn't work right.
In a 4th, you can't get the cyber commander to work.

I'd just give up if I was having this many issues with my lights. At the very least, i'd decide it was time to walk away and give another setup a turn.

I can understand being frustrated. So if you want to go into another direction, hit me up.



Peter Figen
Registered: Apr 28, 2007
Total Posts: 3141
Country: United States

Who really cares what the exact color temp is as long as it's consistent. My ancient Balcars shift about 300K from full power to lowest power. On full power bare bulb, they're about 5200K and drop to around 4700K with a soft box. I've never had a color problem shooting film or digital. If I were you I'd be happy they were coming in around 5100K rather than 5600. But if you're shooting raw, none of it really matters anyway.



jzucker
Registered: Jan 07, 2002
Total Posts: 2515
Country: United States

I don't own buff light strips. The ones I was discussing were fotodiox.
I never said beauty dish didn't work right. And my beauty dish is kacey.
And the CC works beautifully indoors but is hard to see outdoors.
If you have issues with reading comprehension you might want to hold off before making blanket accusations. Seems to be a huge issue around here.

I love the lights, they work beautifully. Just surprised that they are not within 1% of 5600K as claimed.

jared_irl wrote:
jzucker wrote:
jared_irl wrote:
s14brent wrote:
post them in b&s someone will happily buy them!


word. You seem to be having tons of problems with them.

I'll take them off of your hands, but since they don't work very well, you'll have to cut me a break on the price.


tons of problems? what are you talking about?


just reading through the forum here, the top handful of threads all end with you complaining about your Einstein's.

In this thread, the color balance isn't as advertised.
In a different one, you aren't happy with the light strips.
In another one, the beauty dish doesn't work right.
In a 4th, you can't get the cyber commander to work.

I'd just give up if I was having this many issues with my lights. At the very least, i'd decide it was time to walk away and give another setup a turn.

I can understand being frustrated. So if you want to go into another direction, hit me up.



Peter Figen
Registered: Apr 28, 2007
Total Posts: 3141
Country: United States

In addition, the color temperature gets warmer as the flashtubes age, as well. Lot's of variables. Nothing to worry about.



jzucker
Registered: Jan 07, 2002
Total Posts: 2515
Country: United States

Peter Figen wrote:
In addition, the color temperature gets warmer as the flashtubes age, as well. Lot's of variables. Nothing to worry about.


You're probably right about it not being anything to worry about but it's already 550 degrees warmer than normal. When I mentioned 5050, that was the setting in LR needed to achieve neutral grey so it's error is in the opposite direction.



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