A quick look on Facebook shows that I have untold amounts of pictures that are lifted off of my site by college kids, parents and even coaches. Granted they have my watermark on them, which I figure is at least a plug on my stolen photos, but I haven't received a penny for them. I recently made my watermark extremely obtrusive and ugly, but I'm concerned it will cost me valid sales. I do offer a hi-res download, but nothing super small and cheap for the Facebook crowd. How are you guys handling this?

TIA!

Ryan

I offer a cheap facebook option. It does have my contact info and website on the image, figure if I am basically giving them away I should get something out of it. Just not as obtrusive as my normal watermark. Also if they order a hi-res image I send a facebook one as well so its easier for them to post.

Thanks for the input...

If you don't mind me asking Geoffrey, how much do you charge for a FB pic and what size is it?

Thanks!!!

I also offer the FB option, but most kids will grab them and use them. I will throw up 4-8 shots from a game pointing them to my galleries. If a kid likes to grab the ones on FB I just don't upload anymore of that kid. I do have a watermark on them and when they do lift them I will tag myself on the photo, even tho some of the exif/copyright shows up. I have seen a lot more of my photos lifted from the maxprep sight than from FB, the kids just don't care if there is a huge watermark

Honestly... there is not a thing you can do about it. Even if you offer a FB image for a penny, you'll still have a ton of people lifting the image for free. It takes less time to right click and save than it does to take out a credit card and kids are kids. They right click and save everything. If you don't want your images stolen, then the answer is simple... don't post them online.

I know Paul, I'm just hoping to find the sweet spot between promotion and loss...

rbaker wrote:
I know Paul, I'm just hoping to find the sweet spot between promotion and loss...

I'm not sure such a place exists. As long as there has been the internet and social media people are willing to put pictures -- water marks and all -- on their profiles. I've seen them cropped out, photoshopped out, etc., and I honestly think that the best thing you can do is put your contact information on them and hope for the best (that someone will see that and go buy for you).

I know that they say that any publicity is good publicity and to be honest, I don't know if those would be people that would buy your work anyway, so hopefully the people that do see your contact information and go buy from you.

rbaker wrote:
I know Paul, I'm just hoping to find the sweet spot between promotion and loss...




I'm not sure such a spot exists, either. At the verey least it's going to be different for each person.

I see some photographers post everything from a shoot on a FB gallery and, for me, that doesn't make sense. I'll post 5-10 "teaser" images that are all sized at 600-800px on the longest side, then post the rest to a Photo Shelter gallery where they can be purchased.

In short, you've gotta do what you're most comfortable with, but trying to find a perfect solution is probably an exercise in futility.

Are you really losing anything to people who wouldn't bother getting the pictures if they had to pay for them. Best just to put on a good looking logo with info on them and get the exposure (pun intended). YMMV

Ryan,

I tried something last year and my son told me the kids ( classmates ) hated it.
First, I followed my normal procedure and created files 800x600 with a watermark.
Then I used Photoshop to created a Contact sheet 8x10 200 dpi resolution.
I choose 5 columns and 6 rows. The resultant image is 1600x2000, containing 30
watermarked images. Large enough for parents to see and choose but the kids
have to work a little harder to scroll around , crop and edit to lift the photos.
I figure I might as well make them work a little for it!!!

Joemt.

Joe Tompkins wrote:
the kids have to work a little harder to scroll around , crop and edit to lift the photos.
I figure I might as well make them work a little for it!!!


Seemed like a good idea at first, but then you end up with the kid's re-crop, plus them saving a jpg as another jpg. Double compression at unknown settings can wreck your image.

But whatever works for you.

I post a handful of my favorites with my URL and consider it free advertising if they're copied to facebook. The images will be seen by their family and other teammates, so you're reaching your target market.

Everyone does realize that whatever you post to FB with "Public" privacy settings is, according to FB's Legal Terms, granting FB a non-exclusive license to use the image for free however they like, including sub-license it and sell it forever or for as long as the image is anywhere on FB. Even if you delete the image or your FB account, if a client posts your image to their FB pages, and those aren't "Private", then the image is still licensed to FB. Do your clients know this and is that ok with them? (I'm assuming FB would need a model release for any pics showing a face; and a property release for a recognizable structure; but all else is fair game.) FB could be the biggest microstock agency if they decide to exercise their rights (if they haven't already).

Go try to find where to change your privacy settings, I dare you. Most folks won't be able to find them easily or at all.

Read the legal terms, especially section 2: http://www.facebook.com/legal/terms
(if you didn't find the page to change your privacy settings, you can click on the link in the legal terms.)

I think rbaker is talking about people taking photos from his sales site without paying for them, then posting them on Facebook. It's easy to have them taken down and send a message to the person who posted them at the same time. Just click on the stolen photo, click options at the bottom and follow the "Is this your intellectual property?" link.

I let it slide most of the time but every now and then I will see a business using my stuff as if they shot it. If they do not respond to my request to remove it or pay me for it I will have FB remove it . Takes two minutes.

Thanks,
Marty

I don't post them to facebook unless they already have paid for them. I'm paid up front, and afterwards I post the kids whose parents already paid. Sometimes other moms see them and ask if I got any shots of their kid. If I do, they will stop by my house and Ill show them, if they wanna buy, they can pay me and Ill put four shots of their kid on a cd for them.

I've been struggling with this myself lately. I am not going to post anything on FB and all my images in my galleries are now watermarked.

If they purchase a print, in any size 8x10 or larger, I am going to give them a low resolution digital copy of that image. Probably 800x600. I will have my name and contact info on it, but not as obtrusive and my watermark.

P Alesse wrote:
Honestly... there is not a thing you can do about it. Even if you offer a FB image for a penny, you'll still have a ton of people lifting the image for free. It takes less time to right click and save than it does to take out a credit card and kids are kids. They right click and save everything. If you don't want your images stolen, then the answer is simple... don't post them online.


This post was the most relevant back in October and it's the most relevant in late December. Chances are it'll still be as relevant a year from now, too!

I guess I'm a little different than some in this thread...I see FB as a good opportunity to get some of my work out there and it's a pretty simple (and free!) way to market my work. I only post smaller size images on FB (800 px on the longest side) and I have my name and copyright info on each image. Sure, they get lifted and used as profile pics, etc., but I am almost certain that I've gained much more business from posting images on FB than I have lost.

But Paul's last point can't be emphasized enough...if you don't want images stolen or used without your permission (whether it's on FB or anywhere else), the answer is simple...don't post them.

Scott Sewell wrote:

I guess I'm a little different than some in this thread...I see FB as a good opportunity to get some of my work out there and it's a pretty simple (and free!) way to market my work. I only post smaller size images on FB (800 px on the longest side) and I have my name and copyright info on each image. Sure, they get lifted and used as profile pics, etc., but I am almost certain that I've gained much more business from posting images on FB than I have lost.

But Paul's last point can't be emphasized enough...if you don't want images stolen or used without your permission (whether it's on FB or anywhere else), the answer is simple...don't post them.


And there it is.

My Facebook following is a fairly close community of racing people. I find tagging top notch personalities and having a great image appear on their page in front of thier friends and fans is good for business and excellent branding and brand recognition.

JT

I don't do it myself because I don't have a website, but why not just put a link from your website instead of the actual pictures? If you have a really good website, you would have the images not be savable. It wont let you right click and then save the photos, so more people will buy the photos maybe?

Am I missing something or are we talking about two different things? The OP, if I'm not mistaken, is talking about people taking photos from his website (other than FB) and posting them on Facebook. Not Facebook to Facebook transfers.

As far as protecting images on a "secure" website sales gallery, it has been explained over and over that it's a losing battle. It would be an interesting challenge to have people post a link to a photo and see how long it would take, with permission, for someone on here to post a copy of it. I'm guessing less than 60 seconds.

Marty

Kinda like what Scott had said, I had started posting a dozen of so photos of the games on FB, in hopes that they would goto the website and view and purchase photos from there.

Of course, people would take photos and use them as they pleased, Even though everything is "right-click" protected, kids still just take a screen shot and then they have your photo.

Basically I just ended up putting my whole album on facebook. Would I lose a few bucks by doing this? In theory, yes, but my sales have not changed since doing this. People that want to the photos are going to buy the photos. People that want to steal them are going to find a way to steal them. Im not going to worry about someone that I lose a handful of "Facebook" size image sales. If you spend to much time worrying about the nickles and dimes, you will end up losing dollars. Just do like everyone has said and just post low-rez photos on FB and just do as many as you feel is right.