D3s vs D600 for dance and gymnastics
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spineguy
Registered: May 25, 2012
Total Posts: 27
Country: United States

Hello all...

Currently have the D7000 with 85 1.8d and the 70-200 vrII and I mostly take my kids sporting activities...

The D7000 fair pretty well outside as it has enough light to get speeds up and ISO below 3200 (most usable I feel for D7000)

my other kids are doing more gymnastics and dance which is quite frankly too much for the D7000 to handle. I just cant get speeds up and find myself missing many killer shots because of blur...

Have the means to invest in the D600 and could possibly stretch to get a used D3s with mid shutter count... thinking $3000-3250.

I would like to hear from others on can the D600 handle such a tough assignment? worried about focus speed, burst rate.

Is the D3s approx $1100 better?

any thoughts?



Avi B
Registered: Dec 07, 2006
Total Posts: 6942
Country: Canada

D3s focus engine ought to be a big enough advantage for this type of shooting.



spineguy
Registered: May 25, 2012
Total Posts: 27
Country: United States

Im curious, does the D3x have the same focus engine?



spineguy
Registered: May 25, 2012
Total Posts: 27
Country: United States

nevermind, completely different cameras

just trying to save some money...



M635_Guy
Registered: Dec 22, 2010
Total Posts: 2383
Country: United States

The D3s is better for ISO, but the D600 is pretty close and it handles like your D7000. The $1100 would probably be better invested in 1.4 glass IMHO (i.e. sell the 85 1.8 and get the 85 1.4 with that $$$ and the $1100).

Check out the DxO scores here (http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Publications/DxOMark-Reviews/Nikon-D600-sets-high-bar-for-sensor-image-quality/Comparisons) - you can compare your D7000 to both the D3s and D600. They are both well beyond the D7000 for ISO, but the D600 is going to have 2 stops more dynamic range.



mshi
Registered: Dec 13, 2010
Total Posts: 3601
Country: United States

D600 uses the same autofocus module that D7000 uses. In other words, it uses a DX AF module.



Avi B
Registered: Dec 07, 2006
Total Posts: 6942
Country: Canada

Michael, so the AF is pretty much gimped for a FX body?



dj dunzie
Registered: Aug 14, 2006
Total Posts: 7020
Country: Canada

Tough call honestly. I own both, and the D3S will win out for sheer high ISO IQ, autofocus acquisition speed, build, burst rate and control. The D600 though seems to be great at focussing in low-light if not quite as advanced an AF system, and low light results are not anything to sneeze at, again if not quite up to the D3S level. If $1100 in savings is important, it will still be an upgrade on your current body.

The extra resolution of the D600 might be more of a concern than a bonus IMHO for what you're talking about. The files definitely process slower. But, instead of getting a used body that you aren't sure how it's been taken care of, you're getting brand new. That's kind of nice too.

One is a highly capable small body, the other is the ultimate low-light weapon. Either can do the job. David vs Goliath, but David has some tricks up his sleeve....



mshi
Registered: Dec 13, 2010
Total Posts: 3601
Country: United States

Avi B wrote:
Michael, so the AF is pretty much gimped for a FX body?


As long as the subject is in the center of the frame, the AF module should work just fine.



Sarlacc
Registered: Jun 21, 2010
Total Posts: 49
Country: United States

While DR, high ISO, and AF are definitely things to consider...we are talking about dance and gymnastics so speed would be an important factor.

In that category, the D3s wins. If you're trying to catch that oh so important moment in a split second. The D3s is right choice.



DTOB
Registered: Oct 07, 2010
Total Posts: 1359
Country: Canada

mshi wrote:
D600 uses the same autofocus module that D7000 uses. In other words, it uses a DX AF module.



AFAIK, the D600 and D7000 do not share the same autofocus. People have grown accustomed to saying that because they both have 39 pts.

The D600 does not use a "gimped" DX af system, it will allow autofocus with f8 lenses, the D7000 will not. Also, I believe it works in lower light conditions.



mshi
Registered: Dec 13, 2010
Total Posts: 3601
Country: United States

DTOB wrote:

AFAIK, the D600 and D7000 do not share the same autofocus. People have grown accustomed to saying that because they both have 39 pts.

The D600 does not use a "gimped" DX af system, it will allow autofocus with f8 lenses, the D7000 will not. Also, I believe it works in lower light conditions.


Please go visit Nikon's website and read the respective autofocus module for each.



M635_Guy
Registered: Dec 22, 2010
Total Posts: 2383
Country: United States

mshi wrote:
D600 uses the same autofocus module that D7000 uses. In other words, it uses a DX AF module.


I'm not sure what you're suggesting - if what I've read is correct, the AF field coverage isn't larger for a D3s than a D600, it is just 39-point vs. 51-point. Unless you're using superzooms or TC's, I'm yet to hear anything bad about the CAM4800 AF system, and I'm sure it will work well for the D600.



mshi
Registered: Dec 13, 2010
Total Posts: 3601
Country: United States

M635_Guy wrote:
mshi wrote:
D600 uses the same autofocus module that D7000 uses. In other words, it uses a DX AF module.


I'm not sure what you're suggesting - if what I've read is correct, the AF field coverage isn't larger for a D3s than a D600, it is just 39-point vs. 51-point. Unless you're using superzooms or TC's, I'm yet to hear anything bad about the CAM4800 AF system, and I'm sure it will work well for the D600.


Like I said earlier, "As long as the subject is in the center of the frame, the AF module should work just fine."



M635_Guy
Registered: Dec 22, 2010
Total Posts: 2383
Country: United States

DTOB wrote:
mshi wrote:
D600 uses the same autofocus module that D7000 uses. In other words, it uses a DX AF module.



AFAIK, the D600 and D7000 do not share the same autofocus. People have grown accustomed to saying that because they both have 39 pts.

The D600 does not use a "gimped" DX af system, it will allow autofocus with f8 lenses, the D7000 will not. Also, I believe it works in lower light conditions.


They both use the CAM4800 system, just DX and FX versions (I think the difference is mainly proxcessing power and integration into the 24MP FX platform). I agree that it isn't "gimped".

mshi wrote:
D600 uses the same autofocus module that D7000 uses. In other words, it uses a DX AF module.

M635_Guy wrote:
I'm not sure what you're suggesting - if what I've read is correct, the AF field coverage isn't larger for a D3s than a D600, it is just 39-point vs. 51-point. Unless you're using superzooms or TC's, I'm yet to hear anything bad about the CAM4800 AF system, and I'm sure it will work well for the D600.

mshi wrote:
Like I said earlier, "As long as the subject is in the center of the frame, the AF module should work just fine."

How is that different than the D3s?? It also has the AF sensors clustered in the middle...



mshi
Registered: Dec 13, 2010
Total Posts: 3601
Country: United States

M635_Guy wrote:
How is that different than the D3s?? It also has the AF sensors clustered in the middle...


The AF-C 51-Point Dynamic has always been my default. I guess only those Nikon software engineering team that wrote the autofocus module software could answer your question since Nikon has not published the algorithm.



M635_Guy
Registered: Dec 22, 2010
Total Posts: 2383
Country: United States

mshi wrote:
M635_Guy wrote:
How is that different than the D3s?? It also has the AF sensors clustered in the middle...


The AF-C 51-Point Dynamic has always been my default. I guess only those Nikon software engineering team that wrote the autofocus module software could answer your question since Nikon has not published the algorithm.


We're not talking about the algorithm (at least I'm not). They both have their AF field clustered in the center with about the same coverage area, serviced by 39 points for the D600 and 51 fo the D3s. I guess you're trying to say that 51 is better in that limited area?

As far as the algorithm, the D7000/CAM4800 is no slouch, and absolutely got tweaks for the D600.

If you're just being a 51-point elitist, just stop. My guess is he'd do just fine with a D600, especially if he spent the extra $$ on 1.4 glass...

For the record, I'd have a D3s if I could afford one. It is an incredible camera. I don't think it is worth $1100 more to the OP.



mshi
Registered: Dec 13, 2010
Total Posts: 3601
Country: United States

M635_Guy wrote:

We're not talking about the algorithm (at least I'm not). They both have their AF field clustered in the center with about the same coverage area, serviced by 39 points for the D600 and 51 fo the D3s. I guess you're trying to say that 51 is better in that limited area?

As far as the algorithm, the D7000/CAM4800 is no slouch, and absolutely got tweaks for the D600.

If you're just being a 51-point elitist, just stop. My guess is he'd do just fine with a D600, especially if he spent the extra $$ on 1.4 glass...


How exactly any AF module functions in AF-C mode is entirely dependent on how it supposed to function, which is determined by its software algorithm. Back in the film days, for example, F100 has only five-point AF points. How is its AF-C mode different from that of D600? I don't know since Nikon didn't want us to know. I only owned D7000 less than a year but I managed to put more than 50,000 on the shutter. One thing that I have noticed from my own shooting is that each has its own taste in AF-C mode. To answer your question precisely requires in-depth knowledge on how each autofocus module's software algorithm works in AF-C mode.



boshek
Registered: Apr 11, 2011
Total Posts: 948
Country: N/A

Where are you getting a D3s for $3100??



LXShooter
Registered: Mar 07, 2010
Total Posts: 647
Country: United States

boshek wrote:
Where are you getting a D3s for $3100??


+1



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