Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)
/forum/topic/1147292/167

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Tariq Gibran
Registered: Oct 01, 2006
Total Posts: 10397
Country: United States

sebboh wrote:
Tariq Gibran wrote:
sebboh wrote:

2) see outside of the boundaries of what the lens will capture (helpful for seeing the scene develop before the subject arrives in the desired framing). i honestly don't understand this one myself, why not just open both eyes when you look through the viewfinder?



That technique of using both eyes with one looking through the optical finder will only work if the finder is a 1:1 finder. These are rare under 50mm. Otherwise, if you use one eye to look through a reduced magnification finder and the other to look at reality, you end up seeing two pseudo superimposed images with one smaller than the other. There is no way someone could do this in practice. Have you tried this?


i do this all the time because i can't wink. i do it with super-telephotos (great for tracking birds) down to wide angle lenses.



Hmm, I'm not following. You do this with a direct view optical finder OR using your DSLR finder? I doubt you are doing this with a direct view optical finder with a wide lens as on the RX1. There is literally no way you could shoot with one eye looking through the direct view, reduced magnification optical finder designed for say a typical 28 to 35mm lens with the other eye open without running into the double vision/ different size issue. You should try it sometime if you feel like getting dizzy. Or maybe your wink/ eye issue is somehow correcting for it - though I don't see how. When you do this, do you not see a superimposed double image that is slightly off/ out of registration with one side smaller than the other?



sebboh
Registered: Nov 02, 2009
Total Posts: 10187
Country: United States

Tariq Gibran wrote:
sebboh wrote:
Tariq Gibran wrote:
sebboh wrote:

2) see outside of the boundaries of what the lens will capture (helpful for seeing the scene develop before the subject arrives in the desired framing). i honestly don't understand this one myself, why not just open both eyes when you look through the viewfinder?



That technique of using both eyes with one looking through the optical finder will only work if the finder is a 1:1 finder. These are rare under 50mm. Otherwise, if you use one eye to look through a reduced magnification finder and the other to look at reality, you end up seeing two pseudo superimposed images with one smaller than the other. There is no way someone could do this in practice. Have you tried this?


i do this all the time because i can't wink. i do it with super-telephotos (great for tracking birds) down to wide angle lenses.



Hmm, I'm not following. You do this with a direct view optical finder OR using your DSLR finder? I doubt you are doing this with a direct view optical finder with a wide lens as on the RX1. There is literally no way you could shoot with one eye looking through the direct view, reduced magnification optical finder designed for say a typical 28 to 35mm lens with the other eye open without running into the double vision/ different size issue. You should try it sometime if you feel like getting dizzy. Or maybe your wink/ eye issue is somehow correcting for it - though I don't see how. When you do this, do you not see a superimposed double image that is slightly off/ out of registration with one side smaller than the other?


dslr finder or evf. i don't like direct view finders because they don't give me any useful information. i do see two images of different magnification, but it's not any more problematic than watching two tv screens next to each other showing different images. perhaps i've just learned to deal with it since i can't close just my left eye.



Tariq Gibran
Registered: Oct 01, 2006
Total Posts: 10397
Country: United States

sebboh wrote:
Tariq Gibran wrote:
sebboh wrote:
Tariq Gibran wrote:
sebboh wrote:

2) see outside of the boundaries of what the lens will capture (helpful for seeing the scene develop before the subject arrives in the desired framing). i honestly don't understand this one myself, why not just open both eyes when you look through the viewfinder?



That technique of using both eyes with one looking through the optical finder will only work if the finder is a 1:1 finder. These are rare under 50mm. Otherwise, if you use one eye to look through a reduced magnification finder and the other to look at reality, you end up seeing two pseudo superimposed images with one smaller than the other. There is no way someone could do this in practice. Have you tried this?


i do this all the time because i can't wink. i do it with super-telephotos (great for tracking birds) down to wide angle lenses.



Hmm, I'm not following. You do this with a direct view optical finder OR using your DSLR finder? I doubt you are doing this with a direct view optical finder with a wide lens as on the RX1. There is literally no way you could shoot with one eye looking through the direct view, reduced magnification optical finder designed for say a typical 28 to 35mm lens with the other eye open without running into the double vision/ different size issue. You should try it sometime if you feel like getting dizzy. Or maybe your wink/ eye issue is somehow correcting for it - though I don't see how. When you do this, do you not see a superimposed double image that is slightly off/ out of registration with one side smaller than the other?


dslr finder or evf. i don't like direct view finders because they don't give me any useful information. i do see two images of different magnification, but it's not any more problematic than watching two tv screens next to each other showing different images. perhaps i've just learned to deal with it since i can't close just my left eye.



Slightly different animal because the DSLR and EVF finders are much dimmer than a direct view optical finder. That brightness difference means that one image is darker than the other so it's actually easier to adjust to the idea that you are looking at two different images (the two images don't "fight" or confuse the other as much). The EVF also benefits because it's tonal range, contrast and color are so different than reality that the distinction from reality (the naked eye) and it's view are obvious when looking at the two images. With the direct view optical finder, it's a bit more confusing to discern which image is which since the brightness is almost the same between the two, as is the color, etc. so the eye tries to combine them but sees it can't. I do suspect not being able to close one eye may be helping you as well.



moosehead222
Registered: Oct 20, 2012
Total Posts: 150
Country: United States

sebboh wrote:
moosehead222 wrote:
I have not looked through the electronic VF but if eyeglasses is not an issue, why would folks want the optical VF vs electronic. Is it all about being easier to look through?



some people prefer to:
1) see the real world rather than the image the camera will take.
2) see outside of the boundaries of what the lens will capture (helpful for seeing the scene develop before the subject arrives in the desired framing). i honestly don't understand this one myself, why not just open both eyes when you look through the viewfinder?
3) see a brightly lit scene at it's actual brightness.
4) look through glass because it's what they're used to.
5) avoid evfs because that makes it not a "real" camera.

i'm sure i missed a few reasons...



1) and 3) = "light bulb"...



moosehead222
Registered: Oct 20, 2012
Total Posts: 150
Country: United States

Is the RX1R better than the Nikon D800e for high ISO and low light?
I am in the unique situation for me that I do not have a DSLR body now...

So it is either get the RX1R or the D800e?

Do very similar sensor's = similar low light capabilities or does the fact that the RX1R has
1. better processor capabilities for low light
2. fixed lens that can be aligned "perfect" to the sensor
make it capable of producing higher quality




sebboh
Registered: Nov 02, 2009
Total Posts: 10187
Country: United States

moosehead222 wrote:
Is the RX1R better than the Nikon D800e for high ISO and low light?
I am in the unique situation for me that I do not have a DSLR body now...

So it is either get the RX1R or the D800e?

Do very similar sensor's = similar low light capabilities or does the fact that the RX1R has
1. better processor capabilities for low light
2. fixed lens that can be aligned "perfect" to the sensor
make it capable of producing higher quality




the d800e is better for low light if you put an f/1.4 or faster lens on it. shooting at the same aperture the rx1r has a pretty marginal advantage from what i've been able to glean.



philip_pj
Registered: Apr 03, 2009
Total Posts: 3103
Country: Australia

Would be very similar you would think. For hand held, low light implies low shutter speeds or at least marginal s/speeds, so ergonomics come into it also. What impresses with the RX1 lens is the even performance even at wider apertures. Assuming a great lens on the Nikon, both will not disappoint. Tolerances - who really knows, most of them are probably fine.



moosehead222
Registered: Oct 20, 2012
Total Posts: 150
Country: United States

philip_pj wrote:
Would be very similar you would think. For hand held, low light implies low shutter speeds or at least marginal s/speeds, so ergonomics come into it also. What impresses with the RX1 lens is the even performance even at wider apertures. Assuming a great lens on the Nikon, both will not disappoint. Tolerances - who really knows, most of them are probably fine.


Thanks Philip and Sebboh



ricardovaste
Registered: Jan 25, 2010
Total Posts: 3535
Country: United Kingdom

Q: Do the batteries drain even with the camera turned off?

I picked it up late last night, given that it was so darn, just to give it a quick spin. Only took a couple of frames but worked well, the MF with peak/zoom was quick, accurate, discrete. Anyway, when I first picked it up, the screen flashed once, then it wouldn't respond, on/off, battery out, no response. Changed battery, all fine. I'm guessing the battery just went flat, for some unknown reason - do they do this, just on their own? It was charged the day before. Of course, we can't rule out that I may have simply left it turned on/standby... but just thought I'd ask... perhaps I should store the batteries out of the camera...



Tariq Gibran
Registered: Oct 01, 2006
Total Posts: 10397
Country: United States

The battery will not just go dead overnight or in a few days in the camera if it's not turned on.



douglasf13
Registered: Apr 09, 2008
Total Posts: 5957
Country: United States

I've read that the battery may drain with the camera turned off if the shutter is half-pressed, like in a bag or something, but I haven't confirmed that myself. If true, it may be a reason not to use soft releases that are very big.



Jochenb
Registered: May 25, 2010
Total Posts: 1756
Country: Belgium

douglasf13 wrote:
I've read that the battery may drain with the camera turned off if the shutter is half-pressed, like in a bag or something, but I haven't confirmed that myself. If true, it may be a reason not to use soft releases that are very big.


This is true. The battery will drain when the shutterbutton gets pressed down in a bag.



douglasf13
Registered: Apr 09, 2008
Total Posts: 5957
Country: United States

Jochenb wrote:
douglasf13 wrote:
I've read that the battery may drain with the camera turned off if the shutter is half-pressed, like in a bag or something, but I haven't confirmed that myself. If true, it may be a reason not to use soft releases that are very big.


This is true. The battery will drain when the shutterbutton gets pressed down in a bag.


Interesting. I use a super-tiny soft release, and my OVF creates a little clearance that keeps my bag from touching the release, so I haven't noticed the issue.



Jochenb
Registered: May 25, 2010
Total Posts: 1756
Country: Belgium

douglasf13 wrote:
Interesting. I use a super-tiny soft release, and my OVF creates a little clearance that keeps my bag from touching the release, so I haven't noticed the issue.


I also never noticed it, until I started using a tiny bag for those times I just want the smallest kit. It touches the button and completely drains the battery then.



Tariq Gibran
Registered: Oct 01, 2006
Total Posts: 10397
Country: United States

Very interesting about the battery drain via shutter press when camera is off. I also have a relatively small soft release but the bag I keep my RX1 in (ThinkTank Mirrorless Mover 10) does not cause pressure to be put on the shutter button when stored with EVF attached so I have never experienced the problem.



philip_pj
Registered: Apr 03, 2009
Total Posts: 3103
Country: Australia

It is a well known and oft lamented 'bug'. I have got used to removing the battery in any case, as it nearly always needs charging anyway, but another good reason for a bag with room around the camera top.

And to segue into a short review of the soft release called the 'Bip', it works better than pressing the CR socket masquerading as a shutter release, but is not a vast improvement in handholding at low s/speeds. Small and tidy, has more flexibility and looks good in RX1 black.



ricardovaste
Registered: Jan 25, 2010
Total Posts: 3535
Country: United Kingdom

douglasf13 wrote:
Jochenb wrote:
douglasf13 wrote:
I've read that the battery may drain with the camera turned off if the shutter is half-pressed, like in a bag or something, but I haven't confirmed that myself. If true, it may be a reason not to use soft releases that are very big.


This is true. The battery will drain when the shutterbutton gets pressed down in a bag.


Interesting. I use a super-tiny soft release, and my OVF creates a little clearance that keeps my bag from touching the release, so I haven't noticed the issue.


That IS interesting. Good to know. I'll have to do a real test. Easy enough to unscrew the soft release when storing, thankfully.

Good news. 'Won' a used, pretty beaten up (but optically fine) Voigtlander 35mm finder. Black. Yay!



fredmirandafan
Registered: Aug 07, 2013
Total Posts: 92
Country: Canada

philip_pj wrote:
As we help each other with gear, I am getting hold of a 'Bip' soft release by I think Match Technical Thumbs Up. I'll let you know if I give it the thumbs down or up. The idea is to let you use the finger rather than the finger pad for better control. One guy at DPR reckons up to 'a stop', I guess he means double the shutter speed. I can do with a reliable 1/50s, right now I'm more comfortable at 1/100s.


Is there a reason you went with the "Bip" instead of "Beep" or "Boop"? Is it because of size?

And of course to keep my camera "under-stated" or "low key" I should probably go with plain black or white, but the white "Bip Bug" is just so cute?!



ricardovaste
Registered: Jan 25, 2010
Total Posts: 3535
Country: United Kingdom


philip_pj wrote: I can do with a reliable 1/50s, right now I'm more comfortable at 1/100s.

Yes, do let us know how you get on with it :-)

Re: minimum hand-holdable shutter speed, I think it can depend upon what you want to get out of it as well. With my other leaf shutter camera (40mm), I was very happy going down to 1/8th and bracing myself. It was with film, so overall a 'softer beast' to deal with, but it was one of the first things I tired when I opened the box and its more than capable IMO.

The actual release is harder than my other camera though, so if you can tweak anything to help that its only a good thing. I use a simple concave release, I've always liked it.



Michaelparris
Registered: Sep 15, 2008
Total Posts: 2294
Country: United States

ricardovaste wrote:

philip_pj wrote: I can do with a reliable 1/50s, right now I'm more comfortable at 1/100s.

Yes, do let us know how you get on with it :-)

Re: minimum hand-holdable shutter speed, I think it can depend upon what you want to get out of it as well. With my other leaf shutter camera (40mm), I was very happy going down to 1/8th and bracing myself. It was with film, so overall a 'softer beast' to deal with, but it was one of the first things I tired when I opened the box and its more than capable IMO.

The actual release is harder than my other camera though, so if you can tweak anything to help that its only a good thing. I use a simple concave release, I've always liked it.


Did you get the PM I sent you?



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