Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)
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alundeb
Registered: Nov 06, 2005
Total Posts: 4422
Country: Norway

millsart wrote:
I'd certainly like a 21, or a 70mm (50mm is too close to 35mm I and I don't think they'd get many additional sales from RX1 owners)

Problem is though, while buying 2 or 3 Sigma Merrill's is pretty easy to rationalize, those are $800 cameras, instead of $2800 cameras.

I just couldn't really ever see myself wanting to carry 2 or 3 RX's around. Not only would it be close to $9000, but while the smallest FF around, it would still get a bit heavy, and rather defeat any weight savings. Probably lighter to carry a couple lenses instead.

Additionally, while I do like wide angle, how useful is say a 21 or even a 24mm daily ? I do own wides, but I use them for only specific shots and they really don't work too well for general snapshots etc.

Would anyone want to go out with just a 21mm RX style camera ? Be pretty limited for $2800

Likewise, 75 or 85mm, again, great focal length, but a bit limited in what you can shoot other than short portraits and such. Couldn't imagine going away on a weekend trip and wanting to take just a small light camera and being stuck with something so tight. Especially for $2800 again.

Could maybe do a 21 and 75, or 24 and 50 or whatever, but I think carrying 2 bodies rather defeats part of the point of the RX style camera.

Its about having something really minimal, just a single focal length with great IQ. No need for camera bags, lots of weight etc. Just something you can carry around all day, not get tired and still get get images from.


Since it is such an expensive camera and single focal length, the focal length needs to be exactly right for each person's intended usage. It is not intended to make people buy more than one, but to make more people buy one of them. That is the reason why I think the next RX will be close to 35 mm. Most likely a 28 mm or 50 mm, maybe a 24 mm.
Just speculation of course.



sflxn
Registered: Mar 14, 2006
Total Posts: 839
Country: United States

I don't think Sony will chose a focal length that appeals to a small number of people since they want the widest market possible. The only focal lengths I think would have as wide appeal as the 35mm is 50mm and 28mm. 24mm is quite wide. 21mm even more so. Telephoto lengths are great for portraits, but is quite limiting for most people. I'm hoping it's a 50mm. I already have a Ricoh GR, which has a great 28mm. A 50mm would be ok for portraits, in a pinch.

I also think their choice of focal length may hinge on how small they can make the lens. If you look at Sigma's DP3, the lens look out of place on such a tiny body.



millsart
Registered: Apr 29, 2009
Total Posts: 4927
Country: N/A

alundeb wrote:

Since it is such an expensive camera and single focal length, the focal length needs to be exactly right for each person's intended usage. It is not intended to make people buy more than one, but to make more people buy one of them. That is the reason why I think the next RX will be close to 35 mm. Most likely a 28 mm or 50 mm, maybe a 24 mm.
Just speculation of course.



Very possible. I think its a tough proposition any way you look at it, because you have to figure a good number of those who both have the means, as well as the desire for a RX1 style camera, probably have already bought a RX1.

Maybe there are some who are using a Fuji X with the quite good 35mm f1.4 and that may consider upgrading to a true FF 50m but overall, I think it would be bringing a new product to market that has needs many may have already have fulfilled, with the current RX1.

When the RX1 was new, there was nothing else really like it, and while cost did keep many away, the target market largely bought into it. I just got one myself this week lol

Would many people prefer 50mm over 35mm ? Would they prefer it enough so that they would take a loss on their RX1 to buy the "new" version ? Certainly some would, as is always the case, but still a tough market.

I'd say your basically trying to cater to those who really like the 50mm focal length, who require FF, who have the means to afford a nearly $3k camera, and that haven't already bought a RX1.

That rather narrows down the market quite a bit.

On the other hand, if they could make something ICL, with something like a 28 and a 50, then I think that would get a lot of peoples attention. Fuji X owners, current RX1 owners etc. It would again offer something unique, the smallest FF body around, and with great glass if it was along the lines of the current Zeiss lens.

But doing that would mean another totally new mount, and having E, Alpha and then that would be pretty crazy. A company can only diversify itself so much.

Maybe if anything a RX10 would make the most sense. Give it a 50mm equiv to set it apart from the X100, GR's, Nikon A's etc, give it a reasonable price for those that don't want to spend RX1 money.

Could turn out to be something of a hit, or at least a decent seller



Julio Marcos
Registered: Mar 04, 2010
Total Posts: 110
Country: United States

28mm is just to close to the existing 35mm, and that field-of-view is now very crowded in the APS-C arena. 50mm is not bad, but...
I'm hoping for a 24mm f/2.8 version; that focal length, along with a 35mm Summicron, was my M6 kit for the longest time. There's not many fixed wides around - since this is Zeiss, maybe a legendary 21mm would do wonders.

But what would be really cool is a high quality zoom f/4 zoom with a wide to normal range, say 24mm to 50mm (extra bonus for getting to 75mm ). Maybe some semi-collapsible magic from the RX-100 to keep some of the lens from protruding too much when turned-off...



Jochenb
Registered: May 25, 2010
Total Posts: 1815
Country: Belgium

One with a 21mm distagon would be sweet, because I now mostly use my 6D + 21mm as a "fixed lens" camera.
Other focal lengths wouldn't interest me much.



ricardovaste
Registered: Jan 25, 2010
Total Posts: 3792
Country: United Kingdom

I'd specifically not be interested in 28mm and 50mm, they'd both be 'meh' focal lengths for me paired with 35mm. 24mm would be 'okay', but still not great. 21mm or 85mm would be preferred.



ricardovaste
Registered: Jan 25, 2010
Total Posts: 3792
Country: United Kingdom

millsart wrote:

I just couldn't really ever see myself wanting to carry 2 or 3 RX's around. Not only would it be close to $9000, but while the smallest FF around, it would still get a bit heavy, and rather defeat any weight savings. Probably lighter to carry a couple lenses instead.


It depends on what you use it for (stating the obvious I know). If you're used to carrying around 2 big SLRs with single focal lengths then going down to a RX format camera is quite appealing, and I know many others in this boat. I'm quite happy all day with 35/85, occasionally switching in 16-35 (so something like 21mm would also be useful).



philip_pj
Registered: Apr 03, 2009
Total Posts: 3103
Country: Australia

Depends on how you work. A lot of what I do, I need to do several passes to cover a site...I just cannot change lenses each time I see a new photo, it would take all day and attract a load of dust. I got an RX one so I can just grab it as needed, fast and safe..a backup for a DSLR also. Many users could work this way - leaving money aside for now. With a hexar AF many wanted a longer fl one.



mortyb
Registered: Feb 15, 2009
Total Posts: 1366
Country: Norway

RX1 w/35mm and RX2 w/85mm would be a compelling combo for me.



ricardovaste
Registered: Jan 25, 2010
Total Posts: 3792
Country: United Kingdom

mortyb wrote:
RX1 w/35mm and RX2 w/85mm would be a compelling combo for me.


It could be 'special', my two favourite focal lengths. The only small reservation I would have is on AF, perhaps this makes no sense, but I think the AF on an 85mm lens would be more demanding compared to a 35mm. You can almost be a tiny bit off with the 35mm, stop down a touch and get a perfectly usable photo. If you miss it with 85mm, it's just trash. All IMO of course



geoffreyg
Registered: Jul 30, 2005
Total Posts: 275
Country: United States

either a 50, as a super wide is awfully hard.... or a changeable lens mount makes sense....



rsolti13
Registered: Aug 31, 2009
Total Posts: 3587
Country: United States

mortyb wrote:
RX1 w/35mm and RX2 w/85mm would be a compelling combo for me.


This is what I want.....



tulaev
Registered: Nov 17, 2012
Total Posts: 92
Country: Russia

Another grip for RX1.





http://www.un-ltd.co.jp/products/camera/grip/unx9122/index.html
http://www.un-ltd.co.jp/en/index.html


douglasf13
Registered: Apr 09, 2008
Total Posts: 6084
Country: United States

ricardovaste wrote:
mortyb wrote:
RX1 w/35mm and RX2 w/85mm would be a compelling combo for me.


It could be 'special', my two favourite focal lengths. The only small reservation I would have is on AF, perhaps this makes no sense, but I think the AF on an 85mm lens would be more demanding compared to a 35mm. You can almost be a tiny bit off with the 35mm, stop down a touch and get a perfectly usable photo. If you miss it with 85mm, it's just trash. All IMO of course


Good point about the AF. If it were to be an 85mm, it would likely be a f2.8, so that should help a bit, but it would still be pretty shallow DOF.

I have a feeling that it'll be a wider wide.



HelenaN
Registered: Jul 18, 2008
Total Posts: 1205
Country: Norway

While it'd be fun to have a 21mm RX I don't think I'd buy it, because I need a tele too (at least 200mm) and don't want to carry three different cameras.

Speaking of which, those of you who have given up on DSLRs, which camera/system do you combine RX1 with (if any)? I'm currently trying out NEX-6, but can't get friendly with it (mostly the handling, but also colors and and AF lens choices), so I'm thinking about trying Fuji X-E1 too, but I'm so torn.



wayne seltzer
Registered: Dec 22, 2007
Total Posts: 4160
Country: United States

HelenaN wrote:
While it'd be fun to have a 21mm RX I don't think I'd buy it, because I need a tele too (at least 200mm) and don't want to carry three different cameras.

Speaking of which, those of you who have given up on DSLRs, which camera/system do you combine RX1 with (if any)? I'm currently trying out NEX-6, but can't get friendly with it (mostly the handling, but also colors and and AF lens choices), so I'm thinking about trying Fuji X-E1 too, but I'm so torn.


I just did some long hikes in the redwood forests here with my RX1 and a shoulder bag with my D800E and zf 21 and35/2 and leica apo 100 and tripod. I ended up using only the RX1 and D800E with the 100 apo some for both plant macro shots and some panos and scenes which needed a longer FL. For landscape I will always need a wider lens than 35 like the 21 and a 100mm lens to go along with the 35mm lens of the RX1. The sensors in the RX1 and D800E have the same high DR performance which I needed in the forests.



HelenaN
Registered: Jul 18, 2008
Total Posts: 1205
Country: Norway

D800E seems like an awesome camera. Btw. we visited redwood forests in 2002 and loved it. I don't remember the names of the places, except that one was called something like "Tall trees grove". We were lucky to get to spend a few hours there alone and it was wonderful.

The old 5D is still good enough for me, but since I now use RX1 80-90% of the time I'd like to replace the Canon system with something smaller/lighter. It's annoying to carry all that extra weight when traveling just in case I'd need wider or longer. I guess the only way to find out is to try both NEX and X-E1 and see which one I prefer. Which ever I choose will probably just be a temporary solution, but in August we're going on some long hikes, and in November Peru, so I'd really like to have something small but decent to bring then.



Brody LeBlanc
Registered: Oct 04, 2007
Total Posts: 1038
Country: Canada

rsolti13 wrote:
mortyb wrote:
RX1 w/35mm and RX2 w/85mm would be a compelling combo for me.


This is what I want.....


+1



wayne seltzer
Registered: Dec 22, 2007
Total Posts: 4160
Country: United States

Tall trees is a nice hike, did that last year.
I would go with the nex for the similar sony sensors and colors. I still enjoy the IQ of the D800E and although it was slightly drizzling water from the fog off the trees above I did not mind getting the RX1 a little wet but for wetter conditions I would have just used the D800E only.



sebboh
Registered: Nov 02, 2009
Total Posts: 10680
Country: United States

HelenaN wrote:
While it'd be fun to have a 21mm RX I don't think I'd buy it, because I need a tele too (at least 200mm) and don't want to carry three different cameras.

Speaking of which, those of you who have given up on DSLRs, which camera/system do you combine RX1 with (if any)? I'm currently trying out NEX-6, but can't get friendly with it (mostly the handling, but also colors and and AF lens choices), so I'm thinking about trying Fuji X-E1 too, but I'm so torn.


i'm not much interested in other focal lengths. 35mm is my favorite and i don't think i'd buy a fixed lens camera in anything that isn't close to that. with telephotos there's not much size advantage to a fixed lens camera like there is with the 35mm and the recessed elements. a 21mm or 24mm could be useful to some, but not me.

regarding the NEX-6 (and all NEX), the handling is really pretty terrible with AF lenses imho. every time i put an AF lens on my NEX i want to spike the camera. sony lenses also seem kinda weak in color as well. i think the xe-1 with fuji lenses does better in both these areas. the NEX controls are pretty good for manual focus lenses though, which is my reason for using them.



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