Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)
/forum/topic/1147292/132

1       2       3              132      
133
       134              192       193       end

Muizen
Registered: Mar 31, 2006
Total Posts: 23
Country: Belgium

No camera exists that is totally perfect. But the purpose of a camera is first of all to enable the best possible photography. My Leica M9 did this for me for over three years, notwithstanding poor ISO performance, an outdated LCD and some other sometimes serious flaws. But the pleasure was in getting the quality images and that is what I got!
I am now enjoying the RX1 for over three months and, as I indicated before I am very pleased with its amazing photographic qualities. I am also getting older and my eyes were having problems with the Leica RF-system.

What surprises me in discussions of new cameras is that some people do the best they can to find the negatives in such cameras.
As you may recall the CZ-lens was weak at infinity which was proven to be total nonsense, but was repeated by hundreds of people on the forums. AF was announced as a serious weakness but the AF of the RX1 is perfect for me and for most users.
Indeed I also dislike that I can not use the Thumb Grip with the (excellent) Sony EVF. This is a serious design flaw! I have locked the EVF tight with a simple small rubber band (which I suggested then as a solution).
What I like the most about the RX1 is that I can have it with me, even with the EVF attached, most of the time! Even my Leica M9 with a Summilux 50mm was more than twice as heavy as the RX1.
Harry



Makten
Registered: Jul 14, 2008
Total Posts: 4044
Country: Sweden

Muizen wrote:
As you may recall the CZ-lens was weak at infinity which was proven to be total nonsense, but was repeated by hundreds of people on the forums.


It's not nonsense. Mine was very mushy at infinity sometimes. And that was the main problem with the RX1; it was unreliable in a way that I have never seen in any other camera or lens before. You just never knew when it was gonna be sharp or not.

AF was announced as a serious weakness but the AF of the RX1 is perfect for me and for most users.

Again; mine was far from perfect. In dim light it would hardly lock on anything, just hunting back and forth. And in good light it often front focused without any reason (which could have caused the mushiness at infinity).

I would not have sold this fantastic camera if it performed consistently. But unfortunately it didn't and when I figured it out I just didn't want to mess with a third copy (my first had a decentered lens).



Tariq Gibran
Registered: Oct 01, 2006
Total Posts: 10812
Country: United States

Muizen wrote:
No camera exists that is totally perfect. But the purpose of a camera is first of all to enable the best possible photography.


Yes, I completely agree. For most photographers, ergonomics and handling play a huge role in a camera's ability to "enable the best possible photography". This is where I find myself "fighting" with the RX1 at the moment and the camera coming between me and the subject. Once I find work-a-rounds for both a comfortable grip and viewing system, I think I will really enjoy using the RX1.

Thus far, the thumb grip seems to give me the best handling ergonomics, providing a secure grip and perfect index finger placement over the shutter button. OVF, which I actually prefer, would seem to be the only solution when using the thumb grip - but, of course, we get zero feedback (and I'm sure Sony could have figured out a better solution). EVF, which I'm about to give another try (though I hated it on the NEX-7), does not allow for the thumb grip so another solution for grip ergonomics is required. I have yet to try the add on grip options - so I would love to hear some feedback - but it appears as though holding the RX1 with a front grip and the thumb on the rear thumb area would place the index finger used for the shutter button in the wrong position (sort of forcing one to uncomfortably bend/ cramp their finger when taking a shot). Can anyone say if this is the case?

Anyway, I'm curious what others are finding to be the best eye-level ergonomic solution.



carstenw
Registered: Dec 26, 2005
Total Posts: 15827
Country: Germany

I don't know about anything else, but I do know that the RX1/NEX-6/A99 EVF is better than the NEX-7 EVF. I didn't like the NEX-7 much, but really liked the NEX-6 I tried.



Tariq Gibran
Registered: Oct 01, 2006
Total Posts: 10812
Country: United States

Makten wrote:
Muizen wrote:
As you may recall the CZ-lens was weak at infinity which was proven to be total nonsense, but was repeated by hundreds of people on the forums.


It's not nonsense. Mine was very mushy at infinity sometimes. And that was the main problem with the RX1; it was unreliable in a way that I have never seen in any other camera or lens before. You just never knew when it was gonna be sharp or not.

AF was announced as a serious weakness but the AF of the RX1 is perfect for me and for most users.

Again; mine was far from perfect. In dim light it would hardly lock on anything, just hunting back and forth. And in good light it often front focused without any reason (which could have caused the mushiness at infinity).

I would not have sold this fantastic camera if it performed consistently. But unfortunately it didn't and when I figured it out I just didn't want to mess with a third copy (my first had a decentered lens).


I think there must be both sample variation (which would explain some of the earlier poor infinity claims) and outright defective RX1's that are getting past Sony's quality control. You seem to have been particularly unlucky. As such, I don't think anyone can dismiss another users experience as "nonsense".



Tariq Gibran
Registered: Oct 01, 2006
Total Posts: 10812
Country: United States

carstenw wrote:
I don't know about anything else, but I do know that the RX1/NEX-6/A99 EVF is better than the NEX-7 EVF. I didn't like the NEX-7 much, but really liked the NEX-6 I tried.


Great! That gives me a little hope in this EVF.



joe88
Registered: Oct 23, 2009
Total Posts: 2240
Country: United States

Tariq Gibran wrote:

.... I have yet to try the add on grip options - so I would love to hear some feedback - but it appears as though holding the RX1 with a front grip and the thumb on the rear thumb area would place the index finger used for the shutter button in the wrong position (sort of forcing one to uncomfortably bend/ cramp their finger when taking a shot). Can anyone say if this is the case?

Anyway, I'm curious what others are finding to be the best eye-level ergonomic solution.


I use a Flipbac grip on the front without the thumbs up. My EVF stays on the camera 90% of the time except when I need the hotshoe for wireless flash. My hands are small so the flipbac works for me, although it will probably feel quite cramped for larger hands. But its worth a try as the grip is only $12? Mine is a G2 version and it doesn't sit flush to the RX1 body, so might be a concern for some fashionistas. The Flipbac helps me grip the camera securely and also allows me to use my right thumb to trigger AF "On" on the AEL button.



Tariq Gibran
Registered: Oct 01, 2006
Total Posts: 10812
Country: United States

joe88 wrote:
Tariq Gibran wrote:

.... I have yet to try the add on grip options - so I would love to hear some feedback - but it appears as though holding the RX1 with a front grip and the thumb on the rear thumb area would place the index finger used for the shutter button in the wrong position (sort of forcing one to uncomfortably bend/ cramp their finger when taking a shot). Can anyone say if this is the case?

Anyway, I'm curious what others are finding to be the best eye-level ergonomic solution.


I use a Flipbac grip on the front without the thumbs up. My EVF stays on the camera 90% of the time except when I need the hotshoe for wireless flash. My hands are small so the flipbac works for me, although it will probably feel quite cramped for larger hands. But its worth a try as the grip is only $12? Mine is a G2 version and it doesn't sit flush to the RX1 body, so might be a concern for some fashionistas. The Flipbac helps me grip the camera securely and also allows me to use my right thumb to trigger AF "On" on the AEL button.


Thanks. I have something similar on my DP Merrills, the Richard Franiec stick on grips. In fact, I have one that has yet to be attached. Looking at the RX1, it seems like there would be an issue attaching something like this as the grippy rubber looks like it's in the area one would attach to. Did you stick your grip directly on the rubber of the RX1?



mortyb
Registered: Feb 15, 2009
Total Posts: 1364
Country: Norway

Anyone know if the RX1 is more towards 30mm or 40mm?



joe88
Registered: Oct 23, 2009
Total Posts: 2240
Country: United States

Tariq Gibran wrote:Looking at the RX1, it seems like there would be an issue attaching something like this as the grippy rubber looks like it's in the area one would attach to. Did you stick your grip directly on the rubber of the RX1?


Tariq, I stuck it directly to the rubber with the adhesive strip that came with it, haven't fallen off in over 6 months. You might want to check on the Flipbac site as there is a thinner version than the G2 which I have and that might sit flush with the rubber. The G2 protrudes across the rubber. Its somewhat ugly, but works for me.



HelenaN
Registered: Jul 18, 2008
Total Posts: 1196
Country: Norway

mortyb wrote:
Anyone know if the RX1 is more towards 30mm or 40mm?


One tester (sorry, don't remember who it was) said that it's more like 32mm. I used to have ZE 35/1.4 and it's clearly less wide, so if that lens really is 35mm then I agree that RX1 is closer to 30mm. Which is perfect for me. Btw. Canon 35L is almost exactly as wide as RX1 (I have both, but should sell the Canon).



Tariq Gibran
Registered: Oct 01, 2006
Total Posts: 10812
Country: United States

mortyb wrote:
Anyone know if the RX1 is more towards 30mm or 40mm?


More towards 30, though not as much as I earlier thought. Something one should take into consideration is that the lens has a lot of native distortion (it's actually designed that way), so it is wider than 35mm's without correction. Once corrected, you of course loose some of that image area that made it noticeably wider than 35mm's.



Tariq Gibran
Registered: Oct 01, 2006
Total Posts: 10812
Country: United States

joe88 wrote:
Tariq Gibran wrote:Looking at the RX1, it seems like there would be an issue attaching something like this as the grippy rubber looks like it's in the area one would attach to. Did you stick your grip directly on the rubber of the RX1?


Tariq, I stuck it directly to the rubber with the adhesive strip that came with it, haven't fallen off in over 6 months. You might want to check on the Flipbac site as there is a thinner version than the G2 which I have and that might sit flush with the rubber. The G2 protrudes across the rubber. Its somewhat ugly, but works for me.


Thanks, I appreciate it.



mortyb
Registered: Feb 15, 2009
Total Posts: 1364
Country: Norway

Thanks, Helena and Tariq. That's good to know. I've been trekking lately with my 6D, ZF35/2 and ZF 85/1.4 in my pack. Results are stellar and worth it, but weight is 2,1 kg. I'm considering alternatives, I'd happily spend on the RX1 if it can help save my knees. Not sure how to replicate the 85/1.4 on FF. If I go the RX1 route, I'll end up with another camera and lens anyway (Nex or X-E1), and that's probably gonna add around 0,5 kg. So 1 kg in total. 1 kg saved. Not sure if it's worth it. Need to do some more thinking.



Tariq Gibran
Registered: Oct 01, 2006
Total Posts: 10812
Country: United States

mortyb wrote:
Thanks, Helena and Tariq. That's good to know. I've been trekking lately with my 6D, ZF35/2 and ZF 85/1.4 in my pack. Results are stellar and worth it, but weight is 2,1 kg. I'm considering alternatives, I'd happily spend on the RX1 if it can help save my knees. Not sure how to replicate the 85/1.4 on FF. If I go the RX1 route, I'll end up with another camera and lens anyway (Nex or X-E1), and that's probably gonna add around 0,5 kg. So 1 kg in total. 1 kg saved. Not sure if it's worth it. Need to do some more thinking.


One thing I can definitely confirm after having used the ZF 35/2 with leitax mount adapter on the Sony A900 is that the lens on the RX1 is superior in pretty much every way. Higher resolution right from F2 over more of the frame with less fringing and LoCA. There is some LoCA but it's easily tamed in raw conversion - much easier than on the ZF 35/2. When I first shot the RX1 wide open at F2, I had to check the file info twice because it really looked like what I'm used to seeing at F4 or so...on really good glass.



Muizen
Registered: Mar 31, 2006
Total Posts: 23
Country: Belgium

Tariq Gibran wrote:
Muizen wrote:
No camera exists that is totally perfect. But the purpose of a camera is first of all to enable the best possible photography.


Yes, I completely agree. For most photographers, ergonomics and handling play a huge role in a camera's ability to "enable the best possible photography". This is where I find myself "fighting" with the RX1 at the moment and the camera coming between me and the subject. Once I find work-a-rounds for both a comfortable grip and viewing system, I think I will really enjoy using the RX1.

Thus far, the thumb grip seems to give me the best handling ergonomics, providing a secure grip and perfect index finger placement over the shutter button. OVF, which I actually prefer, would seem to be the only solution when using the thumb grip - but, of course, we get zero feedback (and I'm sure Sony could have figured out a better solution). EVF, which I'm about to give another try (though I hated it on the NEX-7), does not allow for the thumb grip so another solution for grip ergonomics is required. I have yet to try the add on grip options - so I would love to hear some feedback - but it appears as though holding the RX1 with a front grip and the thumb on the rear thumb area would place the index finger used for the shutter button in the wrong position (sort of forcing one to uncomfortably bend/ cramp their finger when taking a shot). Can anyone say if this is the case?

Anyway, I'm curious what others are finding to be the best eye-level ergonomic solution.


I have purchased the Gariz half case which is very well made, not too expensive and adds some "substance" to the RX1 and as a result it improves, in my experience, the handling of the RX1. In my rather large hands it is far more comfortable to handle the RX1. Perhaps offering even more stability than the expensive Sony Grip?
Harry



wayne seltzer
Registered: Dec 22, 2007
Total Posts: 4159
Country: United States

Harry,
Agree with you but it is not worth fighting it. Some people are super picky and never happy. Others are way more into ergonomics than IQ. Some repeat the same wrong dissing internet chatter about the camera as gospel without ever trying the camera for awhile. The high price causes some to have unreal expectations. Others seem to have bad luck and get only bad copies.
Why worry about this? Just post your incredible IQ images in the RX image thread and let the images do the talking.
Easy to see the IQ much better than the croppers and better than all non Sony sensor DSLRs.

Tariq, glad you finally see the performance that us early adopters spoke over 5 months ago.


Muizen wrote:
No camera exists that is totally perfect. But the purpose of a camera is first of all to enable the best possible photography. My Leica M9 did this for me for over three years, notwithstanding poor ISO performance, an outdated LCD and some other sometimes serious flaws. But the pleasure was in getting the quality images and that is what I got!
I am now enjoying the RX1 for over three months and, as I indicated before I am very pleased with its amazing photographic qualities. I am also getting older and my eyes were having problems with the Leica RF-system.

What surprises me in discussions of new cameras is that some people do the best they can to find the negatives in such cameras.
As you may recall the CZ-lens was weak at infinity which was proven to be total nonsense, but was repeated by hundreds of people on the forums. AF was announced as a serious weakness but the AF of the RX1 is perfect for me and for most users.
Indeed I also dislike that I can not use the Thumb Grip with the (excellent) Sony EVF. This is a serious design flaw! I have locked the EVF tight with a simple small rubber band (which I suggested then as a solution).
What I like the most about the RX1 is that I can have it with me, even with the EVF attached, most of the time! Even my Leica M9 with a Summilux 50mm was more than twice as heavy as the RX1.
Harry



Jonas B
Registered: Jun 05, 2005
Total Posts: 2433
Country: Sweden

Tariq Gibran wrote...)
Anyway, I'm curious what others are finding to be the best eye-level ergonomic solution.


My setup (hood, RRS grip w tape, EVF) is described here:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51395760
I don't know who first mentioned a 49-->37mm step down ring for a hood. That was a too short hood so I added an empty 49mm filter ring to that. Some day I may try with another empty filter ring there. Thank you, whoever you are.



Tariq Gibran
Registered: Oct 01, 2006
Total Posts: 10812
Country: United States

wayne seltzer wrote:

Tariq, glad you finally see the performance that us early adopters spoke over 5 months ago.



Ha ha. Once the price was where I felt reasonably comfortable at for a fixed lens camera - and knowing I would have to spend more to make it useable for myself - I thought I would see what all the fuss is about. The review by Tim Ashley really convinced me that a "good" copy of the RX1 was optically capable of anything I would need performance wise. The only thing I feel is not there yet is the handling, and that's something I worried about early on as well, particularly after being spoiled by Fuji's Hybrid finder.



Tariq Gibran
Registered: Oct 01, 2006
Total Posts: 10812
Country: United States

Jonas B wrote:
Tariq Gibran wrote...)
Anyway, I'm curious what others are finding to be the best eye-level ergonomic solution.


My setup (hood, RRS grip w tape, EVF) is described here:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51395760
I don't know who first mentioned a 49-->37mm step down ring for a hood. That was a too short hood so I added an empty 49mm filter ring to that. Some day I may try with another empty filter ring there. Thank you, whoever you are.


Thanks for the link. Pretty clever using the friction tape. I could also see maybe using something like cork tape or similar, like what is used for bicycle handle bars. Also nice to read that the shutter release is comfortable with that grip.

There is a half case coming out in a week or so with a built in grip that I may wait on which looks interesting.
http://ulysses.jp/products/detail_image.php?product_id=294&image=main_large_image



1       2       3              132      
133
       134              192       193       end