Thinking about adding a q-flash for canon
/forum/topic/1145247/0



jzucker
Registered: Jan 07, 2002
Total Posts: 2450
Country: United States

Confused as to all the options. Would like the option of TTL and high speed sync.
What do I need to use it wirelessly/off-camera?
And will the 400ws version do ttl AND HSS ?



BrianO
Registered: Aug 21, 2008
Total Posts: 8526
Country: United States

jzucker wrote: Confused as to all the options. Would like the option of TTL and high speed sync.

You can get QTTL with the big Q-flashes by using the appropriate adapters (Q-Nexus for optical, FreeXWire for radio, etc.), but High Speed Sync can only be had with the Quantum Trio.

The Trio can be controlled wirelessly by another Trio, by a Pilot, or by a Co-Pilot.

If HSS is a critical factor, I'd suggest going for the new Canon 600EX-R instead.



jzucker
Registered: Jan 07, 2002
Total Posts: 2450
Country: United States

don't really like the speedlites due to the fresnel-style lens on the front of them



BrianO
Registered: Aug 21, 2008
Total Posts: 8526
Country: United States

jzucker wrote: don't really like the speedlites due to the fresnel-style lens on the front of them

Looks like the Trio is your best bet, then. It's not as powerful as the T5 and X5 Q-flashes, but it has a removeable reflector and bare-bulb xenon tube, is HSS capable, and has a built-in radio transceiver.

Like the other Q-flash units, you'll also need an external battery pack.



ukphotographer
Registered: Dec 12, 2009
Total Posts: 1270
Country: United Kingdom

It depends on what you want to do with HSS.

HSS is pretty useless in conjunction with its output loss - especially when combined with high brightness levels and the requirement for substantial fill. On a bright day, you'll be hard pushed to get a balanced exposure at 4 feet using HSS and unmodified 50mm zoom.

Although not labelled with 'HSS' the T5d-R and X5d-R both perform extremely well at full output beyond regular x-sync and lose no output in the process.

Set your light ratio at full power for 1/250s f16 and the same ratio will be present with 1/8000s f2.8. On a Nikon you just need to set your camera to FP mode and use any of the Quantum transmitters.. Trio, Pilot, CoPilot, FW9T or FW10W with (or without) a D adapter providing you have an FP mode flash in your hotshoe. With an FP mode flash in your hotshoe you can augment the remote Quantum (FP/HSS) sync with on axis HSS_FP mode - adjustable - fill. The Trio is obviously better for this as it has a built in radio to make life easier, but it also works (with Nikon) with a Speedlight in the hotshoe and separate transmitter connected to a PC socket.

The X5d-R at 400WS performs the best without any noticeable banding or shutter clipping, and the most convenient setup I find, on Nikon, is a CoPilot in the hotshoe and the X5d-R as a remote. The Co-Pilot will control the remote X5d-R in TTL or switch it to Manual and operate at different output levels. Switching to Full output allows syncing at all shutterspeeds.

You'll have to try the same with Canon.



jzucker
Registered: Jan 07, 2002
Total Posts: 2450
Country: United States

I disagree that HSS is pretty useless. It's very effective at close distances. And hyper sync (what you are referring to) is the act of the trigger device attempting to guess at when the shutter curtain is going to be open and firing early in order to achieve higher sync shutter speed values. Unfortunately, my experience is that this doesn't work with the canon 5d MK II.

ukphotographer wrote:
It depends on what you want to do with HSS.

HSS is pretty useless in conjunction with its output loss - especially when combined with high brightness levels and the requirement for substantial fill. On a bright day, you'll be hard pushed to get a balanced exposure at 4 feet using HSS and unmodified 50mm zoom.

Although not labelled with 'HSS' the T5d-R and X5d-R both perform extremely well at full output beyond regular x-sync and lose no output in the process.

Set your light ratio at full power for 1/250s f16 and the same ratio will be present with 1/8000s f2.8. On a Nikon you just need to set your camera to FP mode and use any of the Quantum transmitters.. Trio, Pilot, CoPilot, FW9T or FW10W with (or without) a D adapter providing you have an FP mode flash in your hotshoe. With an FP mode flash in your hotshoe you can augment the remote Quantum (FP/HSS) sync with on axis HSS_FP mode - adjustable - fill. The Trio is obviously better for this as it has a built in radio to make life easier, but it also works (with Nikon) with a Speedlight in the hotshoe and separate transmitter connected to a PC socket.

The X5d-R at 400WS performs the best without any noticeable banding or shutter clipping, and the most convenient setup I find, on Nikon, is a CoPilot in the hotshoe and the X5d-R as a remote. The Co-Pilot will control the remote X5d-R in TTL or switch it to Manual and operate at different output levels. Switching to Full output allows syncing at all shutterspeeds.

You'll have to try the same with Canon.



ukphotographer
Registered: Dec 12, 2009
Total Posts: 1270
Country: United Kingdom

jzucker wrote:
I disagree that HSS is pretty useless. It's very effective at close distances. And hyper sync (what you are referring to) is the act of the trigger device attempting to guess at when the shutter curtain is going to be open and firing early in order to achieve higher sync shutter speed values.


HSS is pretty useless beyond 4 feet. Working to balance any bright light situation using HSS and a 50mm coverage beyond this distance will be underexposed. You can zoom your flash head or move it closer, or add multiple HSS devices.. but the fact remains.

Hypersync is Pocket Wizard technology. This isn't. There is no guessing at when the shutter will be open, the shutter action provides a sync in the same place at the same time -- every time -- the only thing you need to do is use whatever process gets your camera into the correct timing mode and use the right flash equipment to reap the benefit. Every Nikon I've tried works fine, and theres results from Canon users that show Canon equipment is capable too.

The 5D MK II is seemingly renowned for having a useless shutter in this respect and users complain that it doesn't work very well at all with any triggering system(!?). If you want to use faster shutter speeds to any benefit beyond x-sync, you might need to get a different camera.

Having said that.. FYI, Heres some 5D II Hypersync results:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/allgoodshots/4161304103/in/pool-1093343@N23
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thecanon1d/6705589017/in/pool-1093343@N23/
and heres a 1D III:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/carrillophoto/3478375443/in/pool-1093343@N23/

They all look fine, and theres loads more around, so you must be doing something wrong.



jzucker
Registered: Jan 07, 2002
Total Posts: 2450
Country: United States

ukphotographer wrote:

They all look fine, and theres loads more around, so you must be doing something wrong.


Not with the triggers I used. It ain't rocket science.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet either.



ukphotographer
Registered: Dec 12, 2009
Total Posts: 1270
Country: United Kingdom

jzucker wrote:
ukphotographer wrote:

They all look fine, and theres loads more around, so you must be doing something wrong.


Not with the triggers I used. It ain't rocket science.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet either.


You must be using the wrong triggers and-or the wrong method... and besides.. I agree.. I don't believe you.

Even the Cactus ebay triggers are capable, so too are slave cells.

Heres another Canon (7D) doing it with a slave cell.. (even with a video):
http://lilsamedia.com/blog/wordpress/2012/01/03/high-speed-sync-a-canon-7d-for-15-bucks/



jzucker
Registered: Jan 07, 2002
Total Posts: 2450
Country: United States

According to Galbraith's tests, the PW hypersync on the PW was the only technology that successfully performed hypersync and then, only at a max of 1/250.

Cactus failed according to his tests. In my tests with the Phottix Odin, I could not hypersync above 1/200.

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-9884-9903-9907



ukphotographer
Registered: Dec 12, 2009
Total Posts: 1270
Country: United Kingdom

jzucker wrote:
According to Galbraith's tests, the PW hypersync on the PW was the only technology that successfully performed hypersync and then, only at a max of 1/250.


That test illustrates nothing of the sort.

As already pointed out in post 7: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1145247/0#10931054 PW ARE THE ONLY TRIGGERS THAT 'DO' HYPERSYNC.. and THIS isn't THAT. Nobody is talking about Hypersync apart from you and even then you're comparing some derivative of that and substituting a Phottix Odin instead.

Your link to Galbraith's site bears no relevance to this discussion for obtaining benefit and syncing at shutter speeds in the HSS region. In the first paragraph Rob states:
The HyperSync Offset value was selected to give the best result at 1/250 and then he goes on to list the test parameters -- transmitting to a Multimax(??!!).. using a sports_action pack.. and including a bi-tube head! That doesn't lend itself to any kind of HSS shutter speed performance and doesn't even use the changed (HSS) sync point.

How is optimally set and 'selected to give the best result at 1/250' supposed to help in any way with:
1. Shutter speeds in the HSS region of 1/320-1/8000s when not even the same sync point is being used?
2. Any shutter speed OTHER THAN 1/250s?



jzucker
Registered: Jan 07, 2002
Total Posts: 2450
Country: United States

ok, thanks for the clarification. My mistake on that link.