Unscientific 1DX vs 5D3 high ISO test
/forum/topic/1129523/0

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stanj
Registered: Aug 05, 2003
Total Posts: 9679
Country: United States

I am really not in a testing mood, neither BIF nor brick walls. Right now I'm not in much of a mood for anything actually, so I have been cleaning my office when I thought, why don't I take a picture of Stan and my favorite drink. So I put the pancake on the 1DX and shot a frame at 25k and 51k, then I replicated the same settings with the 5D3. In each case the focus point was the peach on the label.

Knock yourself out with the raw files, and start flaming me for doing a poor job

Now I still need to figure out what to do with that pancake lens...

I have added a more proper test, tripod and all, in this thread.



katakefalos
Registered: Mar 27, 2012
Total Posts: 15
Country: Greece

My LR cant open Eos 5D MK3 files but can open the DX's.The only sure is that when you adding noise reduction(even too much) there is still detail in the picture.
Thanks for sharing.



stanj
Registered: Aug 05, 2003
Total Posts: 9679
Country: United States

Strange. Newest LR 4.1 can open both, at least for me. Or new ACR, or DNG converter...

I provided the raws so that everyone can mess with them in any NR way they please. I really like the 1DX's look, looks much better a stop higher than the 5D3. And 1600 is butter smooth.



saneproduction
Registered: Nov 03, 2010
Total Posts: 1224
Country: N/A

Can I still flame you even if I don't look at the raws?



stanj
Registered: Aug 05, 2003
Total Posts: 9679
Country: United States

Please. Flame me for posting ONLY the raws



saneproduction
Registered: Nov 03, 2010
Total Posts: 1224
Country: N/A

I was totally going to do that, how can I look at them on my phone where I do all of my careful image comparisons when considering the choice of a 3500 camera and a 7000 one.

PS you can always mail me that pancake! It looks sweet! Is it really as sharp as the 50L or 35L at the same aperture (2.8)?



absolutic
Registered: Nov 04, 2008
Total Posts: 1275
Country: United States

stanj wrote:


Now I still need to figure out what to do with that pancake lens...


I returned mine to Bestbuys, got 35L instead, and never looked back



mohamed alfari
Registered: Sep 05, 2006
Total Posts: 1125
Country: United Arab Emirates

Don't want to change the subject but, Stan whats your first impression of the 1DX? and the pancake?



stanj
Registered: Aug 05, 2003
Total Posts: 9679
Country: United States

mohamed alfari wrote:
Don't want to change the subject but, Stan whats your first impression of the 1DX? and the pancake?


See, my mental state right now is such that after having owned the camera for about 16 hours, it has 166 shots on the clicker. Most of it was by pressing the trigger to listen to the sound. I basically just attached the (old, vastly superior E1!) hand strap, set up the custom functions, and put it on the desk.

Having used it back in April, I know it will get the job done. I hate the AF superimposed display, which is equally braindead as the one the 5D3, and makes me really angry. The AF points are equally invisible as on the 5D3. Who approved this should be kicked.

The AF is fine, too. The only moving test subject I had today was a friend at a bar, who got subjected to five frames, while moving, did I mention at a bar with appropriate light, with the pancake. Not your ideal conditions; they all turned out well.

The image quality is butter smooth. Again, not a surprise, I shot it a while back. I thought to myself that ISO 1600 looks on it as good as ISO 100 on the 7D. I know that's not true, but from when I used the 7D on a number of occasions, it sure feels like it. It's definitely as clean as ISO 200 (maybe even 100) on the original 1Ds (don't beat that poor horse).

If you don't see much of a thrill coming from me, it's in part due to where I'm at, and in part due to the fact that I am not your prototypical 1DX customer; I'm your prototypical 1Ds customer. I would have been happier with a 40MP, 5fps 1Ds4, especially if it had focus points that I can actually see at night. I am sure I'll use the 12fps on my kids some day. I'm also pretty sure it will be a complete waste The "speed limiter" setting is on My Menu for sure.

As for the pancake: It's insanely adorable. For $200, it's insanely good, too. But for someone who has the 24L2, 35L, 50L, 85L2, 16-35L2, 24-70L I am also not sure what I will be actually using it for. Optically, it beats the crap out of the 24-70L for sure. Unlike the 50L, it can focus. Looking at my drawer, I have 40mm covered 3x in a zoom, if you add the 16-35 as a close one then 4x, plus the other primes... I don't remember ever in my life thinking "damn this 35L is nice, I just wish it were slower and smaller".

But it's adorable.



stanj
Registered: Aug 05, 2003
Total Posts: 9679
Country: United States

saneproduction wrote:
PS you can always mail me that pancake! It looks sweet! Is it really as sharp as the 50L or 35L at the same aperture (2.8)?


Here's what I'll do tomorrow. I'll shoot some pancake vs. 50L vs. 35L comparison shots, and some more proper 5D3 vs. 1DX ISO shots, with tripod and all. That will be work therapy for me, and you can judge for yourself What should the test target be? Hint: don't go overboard.

Personally I don't think I ever shot the 50L at f2.8 - I always shoot it at 2.0, because below that it's mush and above that I may as well use my zoom. But my gut feeling is that the pancake is one damn fine lens, esp. for the price. I used it last week on my 5D3 and it was very convincing. But I still don't know what I'd use it for.



mohamed alfari
Registered: Sep 05, 2006
Total Posts: 1125
Country: United Arab Emirates

Thanks a lot Stan for the great info. May I be greedy and ask you whats your general impression comparing 5D3 and 1DX? the reason I am asking is I want to do some changing in my kit, which is to sell both 5D2 AND 5D3 plus one or two lenses and go for 1DX and the new Olympus OMD-EM5 micro 4/3 which ppl are loving a lot as my small and backup kit. still I am scared to do that but at the end of the day its just a hobby, that I am enjoying the gear part more than the art of it

regarding the pancake, I ordered one. Its not my first pancake, I use them when i am not in the mood to carry a lot of gear or big sizes. like when going a restaurant, coffee shops and visiting friends. and when traveling at the end of the day at night I want to carry something very light to enjoy the street walk. That used to be 24II especially with f1.4 but with new ISO performance being f2.8 isn't an issue anymore.



mohamed alfari
Registered: Sep 05, 2006
Total Posts: 1125
Country: United Arab Emirates

Back to the subject I find that not only 1DX is at least one stop better but it also have no sign of any banding which is very annoying in 5D3 samples. giving the price difference that shouldn't be a surprise.
Side note I too find my self not in the mood for photography maybe because of the heat outside (48 C)
thanks for sharing



stanj
Registered: Aug 05, 2003
Total Posts: 9679
Country: United States

Well, back in the good old days when AF points were visible, there always was a clear difference between the 1Ds2 and the 5D; in my book, there was an equal difference between the 1Ds3 and the 5D2, even though some people saw it less clearly so. To me, it was simple: the 1-series got you the picture, the 5-series tried to.

When the 5D3 came, it cleaned out with the 1Ds3 / 1D4 from an AF and responsiveness perspective. I speak from a lot of experience with all of the above. Other than purposes of self defense, I did not see a need, or even a desire, for the 1Ds3 (except battery life for some of my extreme projects). I sold the 1Ds3 and for the first time since the 1990s was without a 1-series body. I felt naked, but very happy about it.

The 1DX is - in my book - not the same to the 5D3 as the previous 1D bodies were to the previous 5D bodies. Yes, you still can use it for self defense. Yes, it still runs at twice the frame rate. Yes, the AF is better (the metering _IS_ better). The "problem" is that back in the days of visible AF points, I could daily experience why I'd grab the 1Ds3 over the 5D2. Now I can't, and I believe that most people can't either: the 5D3 is simply so competent, I don't know for sure how often I need that extra 5% AF accuracy or customization or whatnot to get the job done. Yes, frame rate, I know that 6fps isn't good enough for many and I won't even go there. But those are very few people who legitimately have that need. We are at a point that "the best" and "the 2nd best" is so close for the unwashed masses - and even some pretty well washed ones - that it's irrelevant. It's like comparing a 550 to an M5. Yes one has twice the exhaust pipes and goes faster. But at 5pm they're both standing equally still in traffic. They are limited by their owner's talents (on the track, if they ever venture there) and by their owner's usage pattern (stop & go traffic vs. open road). The 1DX is your M5 and the 5D3 is your 550.

Now as for your pancake plan - if you get rid of the 5D3 for a 1DX, and at the same time you want the pancake so that it's a bit smaller / less conspicuous than the 24L2, then I must humbly say that you got something going wrong The 24L2 on the 1DX, fine. The pancake on the 5D3, cute. But what I've been walking around today certainly got me looks that I never got with the 28-300 on my 1Ds3, which I used to call "my P&S".



mohamed alfari
Registered: Sep 05, 2006
Total Posts: 1125
Country: United Arab Emirates

Cant thank you enough Stan for the honest review. Someone else will try to justify and defend his reasons for buying 1DX. I think you are right about that the frame rate might be the only thing that could be a valid reason, especially since 5D3 weather sealing have being improve and battery life I have 4 batteries. I am planning to go South Africa next year which is my favorite part of the world and only there would the extra frame rate matter but its one time in a year so I need to do some more thinking.
Well said about the pancake with 1DX, I forgot that part



PhilDrinkwater
Registered: Feb 24, 2010
Total Posts: 1878
Country: United Kingdom

When I tested a pre production 1dx vs a 5d3 I found about a 1/2 to 2/3 stop improvement.. Certainly not a 1 stop improvement. Maybe they've improved it in the production model, but I kind of doubt it.

I strongly suspect, when the tests come out, it will show something like that. A worthwhile difference for some, but not for me ... so I got a 5d3 (love the quiet shutter for my wedding work..)

1dx was a great camera. I wasn't 100% sure about the white balance in certain circumstances though.



311erin
Registered: Sep 26, 2005
Total Posts: 166
Country: United States

stanj wrote:
Well, back in the good old days when AF points were visible, there always was a clear difference between the 1Ds2 and the 5D; in my book, there was an equal difference between the 1Ds3 and the 5D2, even though some people saw it less clearly so. To me, it was simple: the 1-series got you the picture, the 5-series tried to.

When the 5D3 came, it cleaned out with the 1Ds3 / 1D4 from an AF and responsiveness perspective. I speak from a lot of experience with all of the above. Other than purposes of self defense, I did not see a need, or even a desire, for the 1Ds3 (except battery life for some of my extreme projects). I sold the 1Ds3 and for the first time since the 1990s was without a 1-series body. I felt naked, but very happy about it.

The 1DX is - in my book - not the same to the 5D3 as the previous 1D bodies were to the previous 5D bodies. Yes, you still can use it for self defense. Yes, it still runs at twice the frame rate. Yes, the AF is better (the metering _IS_ better). The "problem" is that back in the days of visible AF points, I could daily experience why I'd grab the 1Ds3 over the 5D2. Now I can't, and I believe that most people can't either: the 5D3 is simply so competent, I don't know for sure how often I need that extra 5% AF accuracy or customization or whatnot to get the job done. Yes, frame rate, I know that 6fps isn't good enough for many and I won't even go there. But those are very few people who legitimately have that need. We are at a point that "the best" and "the 2nd best" is so close for the unwashed masses - and even some pretty well washed ones - that it's irrelevant. It's like comparing a 550 to an M5. Yes one has twice the exhaust pipes and goes faster. But at 5pm they're both standing equally still in traffic. They are limited by their owner's talents (on the track, if they ever venture there) and by their owner's usage pattern (stop & go traffic vs. open road). The 1DX is your M5 and the 5D3 is your 550.

Now as for your pancake plan - if you get rid of the 5D3 for a 1DX, and at the same time you want the pancake so that it's a bit smaller / less conspicuous than the 24L2, then I must humbly say that you got something going wrong The 24L2 on the 1DX, fine. The pancake on the 5D3, cute. But what I've been walking around today certainly got me looks that I never got with the 28-300 on my 1Ds3, which I used to call "my P&S".


Thanks for your input, yours is the one I was waiting for. Meanwhile, two perfectly good Canon lenses sit in a bag under my desk waiting for the camera that never came (1DsMKIV) and someone in Hawaii is enjoying my old 1DsMKIII.



big country
Registered: Nov 27, 2006
Total Posts: 3566
Country: United States

Stanj, thanks for the great write up, all throughout my years here on FM, your opinion is one that i've respected.

Do you feel the 1dx is worth 2x the price of the 5d iii discounting the fact that you can use it as a weapon?



RobertLynn
Registered: Jan 05, 2008
Total Posts: 11513
Country: United States

big country wrote:
Stanj, thanks for the great write up, all throughout my years here on FM, your opinion is one that i've respected.

Do you feel the 1dx is worth 2x the price of the 5d iii discounting the fact that you can use it as a weapon?


Ilmfao.



big country
Registered: Nov 27, 2006
Total Posts: 3566
Country: United States

Robert, i'll take that you say no?



garyvot
Registered: Apr 02, 2003
Total Posts: 3092
Country: United States

At least on the 5D3, the selected AF point(s) are visible in One Shot and you can control how and when it/they are illuminated, along with the visibility of the rest of the array. It's also possible to toggle instantly between One Shot and AI Servo via a programmable button (I use DOF).

This doesn't solve the problem but could be a work-around in some situations if you adjust how you use the camera.



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