Fujifilm X-mount Image Thread
/forum/topic/1097477/171

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RSSmith
Registered: May 28, 2005
Total Posts: 301
Country: United States

X-E1 + XF14/2.8


20131116 a088b by Ronald S. Smith, on Flickr



Rob_O
Registered: Sep 24, 2004
Total Posts: 402
Country: United Kingdom

Yes: ISO Base (Fuji term) 200, ISO Limit (or whatever they call the ceiling) 3200 and Minimum Shutter Speed of 1/100 sec.

Looking back, more than half of my shots that day are below 1/100, maybe as many as 3/4. I didn't even think to pay attention to this after setting it.

If the camera is set to override for whatever reason, then what's the point? I mean, several were at 1/18 to 1/32 ... That's not even close and renders the min shutter value useless.

carstenw wrote:
Rob_O wrote:
One thing has me scratching my head though. My *minimum shutter speed* for Auto ISO was set to 1/100 sec. However, I see shutter values as low as 1/18 of sec! In fact, a good half of my image files register below the 1/100 threshold set in-camera. Not sure why and will have to investigate, because results for under, say, 1/60 were blurry (as might be expected).


Did you cap the ISO range at the top?



Jman13
Registered: May 02, 2005
Total Posts: 10492
Country: United States

Well, what do you expect it to do when there isn't enough light?

I'm assuming all your shots slower than the 1/100 limit are at ISO 3200. If that's the case, it's working perfectly. The Auto ISO will start at your default ISO and keep it there unless shutter speed drops below your set limit. It will increase ISO up to the maximum specified to maintain that minimum shutter speed. If, however, you are in an area that is too dark to maintain that shutter speed and you've maxed out the ISO, it will simply adjust the shutter speed to obtain proper exposure. The other option is to shoot at ISO 3200 and 1/100s no matter what and record severely underexposed images, which I'd imagine would not be something you'd want. (and if you do, switch to manual mode)

The camera can't do everything...you need to recognize that you've hit the ISO limit and either raise the ISO or shoot with a faster lens. It can't create light for you.



Rob_O
Registered: Sep 24, 2004
Total Posts: 402
Country: United Kingdom

Jman13 wrote:
Well, what do you expect it to do when there isn't enough light?

I'm assuming all your shots slower than the 1/100 limit are at ISO 3200. If that's the case, it's working perfectly. The Auto ISO will start at your default ISO and keep it there unless shutter speed drops below your set limit. It will increase ISO up to the maximum specified to maintain that minimum shutter speed. If, however, you are in an area that is too dark to maintain that shutter speed and you've maxed out the ISO, it will simply adjust the shutter speed to obtain proper exposure. The other option is to shoot at ISO 3200 and 1/100s no matter what and record severely underexposed images, which I'd imagine would not be something you'd want. (and if you do, switch to manual mode)

The camera can't do everything...you need to recognize that you've hit the ISO limit and either raise the ISO or shoot with a faster lens. It can't create light for you.


I disagree. Well, I agree with your logic ... that's obviously how Fuji have programmed it. However, I'd rather it underexposed (in this example) and let me deal with it as a user -- either by adjusting my settings or worrying about it later during post -- or have some form of "warning" that user Min Shutter Speed are being overridden due to max ISO being reached and the camera still thinking it needs more light (i.e., shutter speed still too fast).

For shots where I saw 1/18 of a second, I'll bet I could deal with the 2-stops difference for what I was shooting (very dynamic range between the shadows and bright stage lights). I'd at least have liked the option.

As for going full manual, conditions (lighting) changed too fast and often. For my son's basketball games, I go full manual and get exactly the exposure I want ... dialling it in prior to each game based on lighting at a given venue. But it's constant throughout the game, and I know what my min shutter speed needs to be for capturing the action without subject (motion) blur. Couldn't do that here. Picking any given ISO, shutter speed and aperture (although I'd have been wide open the entire show anyway) means too much variance in over/under exposures. I'd rather go with Auto ISO and a shutter floor, which might in some occasions under expose, than to constantly be chasing exposure manually.



carstenw
Registered: Dec 26, 2005
Total Posts: 15339
Country: Germany

I don't think this really makes sense. Or at least, you can get what you want by simply raising the max ISO. If the shot were underexposed, you would presumably fix it by increasing the exposure in post. This is the same effect as simply setting the MAX ISO higher. If you want it to underexpose as much as required to get a stable shot, set your camera to the highest ISO it has.

The way it is implemented is the same as on my Nikons, and this is perfect, IMO.



Jman13
Registered: May 02, 2005
Total Posts: 10492
Country: United States

Well, just need to keep your eye on it. When you half press the shutter, it shows you all the exposure parameters it's using in the viewfinder. Also, if you don't mind a 2 stop underexposure, why did you have ISO 3200 set as the limit? If you wanted shutter speed above all else, I'd think you'd select to max out the ISO.

Also, if you don't mind correcting for underexposure and such in post, you can use Auto ISO in manual mode and select the shutter speed to be 1/100s and it'll never deviate from that. Of course, you lose exposure compensation there, but in situations where you absolutely need the shutter speed, that function exists.

I for one am very glad it prioritizes exposure.



xbarcelo
Registered: Nov 04, 2010
Total Posts: 530
Country: Spain

You could have manual with auto ISO, which is a sort of compromise, if you do need the exposure speedů

EDIT: Jordan, you beat me to it!



Rob_O
Registered: Sep 24, 2004
Total Posts: 402
Country: United Kingdom

Jman13 wrote:
Well, just need to keep your eye on it. When you half press the shutter, it shows you all the exposure parameters it's using in the viewfinder. Also, if you don't mind a 2 stop underexposure, why did you have ISO 3200 set as the limit? If you wanted shutter speed above all else, I'd think you'd select to max out the ISO.

Also, if you don't mind correcting for underexposure and such in post, you can use Auto ISO in manual mode and select the shutter speed to be 1/100s and it'll never deviate from that. Of course, you lose exposure compensation there, but in situations where you absolutely need the shutter speed, that function exists.

I for one am very glad it prioritizes exposure.


Yeah, I just didn't think to monitor shutter speed after setting the Min value, figuring it wouldn't go below what I set (even if it meant improper exposure). Now I know.

And I didn't have time to 'chimp' so didn't catch it until reviewing them at home later.

As for why I didn't raise the ISO limit, it's mostly because I didn't know the camera was programmed to override settings. I'd have been okay at ISO 6400. My comment about the 2-stop underexposure related to how *I'd* prefer the camera handled things in this situation -- i.e., have the camera say "Hey, dummy, you set Minimum Shutter Speed to 1/100 sec but that's not fast enough so here's your underexposed shot" versus "Hey, dipshit, 1/100 sec minimum shutter is too fast so I've corrected it for you ... you're welcome!" I appreciate Fuji engineers have the shooter in mind. However, with an underexposed image file I can do something about it in post. With the blur created by simply giving me a "proper" exposure, I can't do much about that later.

Ideally, there would either be a user-selectable "Override Minimum Shutter Speed if Necessary" option *or* a simple warning on screen to indicate that a camera-defined proper exposure is outside selected ISO and Shutter values; at least then the user knows it's occurring and can either dial in EC or bump the ISO or go manual or whatever.

It should also be noted that I knew from sample shots before the performances began that 1/100 sec was likely a stop too fast for some shots, but I chose it anyway with this notion of preference for underexposed files (without knowing how the X-E2 would handle it). Shadow detail is so much easier to recover/manage than blown highlights, which are pretty much unrecoverable when the histogram gets that far to the right.



Mike Elfner
Registered: Mar 01, 2003
Total Posts: 72
Country: Switzerland

@]twelveish
Thanks, and I really like your first from Portland



Mike Elfner
Registered: Mar 01, 2003
Total Posts: 72
Country: Switzerland

Netherlands without Windmills would not be Netherlands ...



















michael49
Registered: Jun 09, 2006
Total Posts: 5400
Country: United States

Jman13 wrote:
My last night with the 23/1.4. Have to send my review sample back tomorrow. May have to save up for this one. (my review should be done later this evening). All on the X-E2. Edit: My review of the 23/1.4 is now up for those interested: http://admiringlight.com/blog/review-fujifilm-fujinon-xf-23mm-f1-4-r/
.....


I'm really itching for this lens. 35-40mm is my favorite FL.



Jman13
Registered: May 02, 2005
Total Posts: 10492
Country: United States

Three from tonight. First with 60/2.4 Macro, next two with Canon FL 55/1.2 + Speed Booster, all on X-E2.



















absolutic
Registered: Nov 04, 2008
Total Posts: 1283
Country: United States

XE1 with various lenses



















Mike Elfner
Registered: Mar 01, 2003
Total Posts: 72
Country: Switzerland

as always with the X-Pro1







Jman13
Registered: May 02, 2005
Total Posts: 10492
Country: United States

A bunch from walking around town tonight with the X-E2 and the Canon FL 55/1.2 and Speed Booster. All are at 39mm, f/0.85.











































kwoodard
Registered: Aug 04, 2012
Total Posts: 2836
Country: United States

Jman13 wrote:
A bunch from walking around town tonight with the X-E2 and the Canon FL 55/1.2 and Speed Booster. All are at 39mm, f/0.85.


Great set! I really need a 55/1.2, but I prefer the Nikon flavor.

When using glass with adapters like this, is there any value in getting the XE2 over the XE1? The only thing I can think of that is really different is the faster EVF and bigger rear screen. Am I missing anything? Why should I try and get an XE2 if I am only using alt glass on my XE1?



millsart
Registered: Apr 29, 2009
Total Posts: 4731
Country: N/A

kwoodard wrote:
Jman13 wrote:
A bunch from walking around town tonight with the X-E2 and the Canon FL 55/1.2 and Speed Booster. All are at 39mm, f/0.85.


Great set! I really need a 55/1.2, but I prefer the Nikon flavor.

When using glass with adapters like this, is there any value in getting the XE2 over the XE1? The only thing I can think of that is really different is the faster EVF and bigger rear screen. Am I missing anything? Why should I try and get an XE2 if I am only using alt glass on my XE1?



Better EVF, larger LCD, Focus Peaking options; all seem like things that would make using alt glass a bit more enjoyable



Jman13
Registered: May 02, 2005
Total Posts: 10492
Country: United States

Aside from what's mentioned above, the biggest thing aside from the much better EVF refresh, which was huge tonight in low light, is that the E2 can continue to zoom in while it's writing images to the card. The E1 can't. You have to wait until the buffer is flushed before magnifying the view again. The rear LCD is also much higher res in addition to being larger.

Tonight was the first time I used the digital split prism focusing. While peaking is better for most things, the bike shots were really hard to nail with the focus peaking, but super easy with the split image focus.



georgms
Registered: Jan 08, 2009
Total Posts: 3351
Country: Germany

kwoodard wrote:
Jman13 wrote:
A bunch from walking around town tonight with the X-E2 and the Canon FL 55/1.2 and Speed Booster. All are at 39mm, f/0.85.


Great set! I really need a 55/1.2, but I prefer the Nikon flavor.

When using glass with adapters like this, is there any value in getting the XE2 over the XE1? The only thing I can think of that is really different is the faster EVF and bigger rear screen. Am I missing anything? Why should I try and get an XE2 if I am only using alt glass on my XE1?


Kevin, I've shot just a couple of frames with the 55/1.2 (Metabones standard-adapter) on the X-Pro, but in my opinion it's not a very good combo. A speed-booster might change this, but a nice 55/1.2 and the speedbooster together are not cheap and might make the native Fujinons look even more attractive.



curious80
Registered: Jun 18, 2010
Total Posts: 1302
Country: United States

Rob_O wrote:
Jman13 wrote:
Well, just need to keep your eye on it. When you half press the shutter, it shows you all the exposure parameters it's using in the viewfinder. Also, if you don't mind a 2 stop underexposure, why did you have ISO 3200 set as the limit? If you wanted shutter speed above all else, I'd think you'd select to max out the ISO.

Also, if you don't mind correcting for underexposure and such in post, you can use Auto ISO in manual mode and select the shutter speed to be 1/100s and it'll never deviate from that. Of course, you lose exposure compensation there, but in situations where you absolutely need the shutter speed, that function exists.

I for one am very glad it prioritizes exposure.


Yeah, I just didn't think to monitor shutter speed after setting the Min value, figuring it wouldn't go below what I set (even if it meant improper exposure). Now I know.

And I didn't have time to 'chimp' so didn't catch it until reviewing them at home later.

As for why I didn't raise the ISO limit, it's mostly because I didn't know the camera was programmed to override settings. I'd have been okay at ISO 6400. My comment about the 2-stop underexposure related to how *I'd* prefer the camera handled things in this situation -- i.e., have the camera say "Hey, dummy, you set Minimum Shutter Speed to 1/100 sec but that's not fast enough so here's your underexposed shot" versus "Hey, dipshit, 1/100 sec minimum shutter is too fast so I've corrected it for you ... you're welcome!" I appreciate Fuji engineers have the shooter in mind. However, with an underexposed image file I can do something about it in post. With the blur created by simply giving me a "proper" exposure, I can't do much about that later.

Ideally, there would either be a user-selectable "Override Minimum Shutter Speed if Necessary" option *or* a simple warning on screen to indicate that a camera-defined proper exposure is outside selected ISO and Shutter values; at least then the user knows it's occurring and can either dial in EC or bump the ISO or go manual or whatever.

It should also be noted that I knew from sample shots before the performances began that 1/100 sec was likely a stop too fast for some shots, but I chose it anyway with this notion of preference for underexposed files (without knowing how the X-E2 would handle it). Shadow detail is so much easier to recover/manage than blown highlights, which are pretty much unrecoverable when the histogram gets that far to the right.


It makes sense why you want it to behave the way you want. It also makes sense why Fuji implemented it the way they did. Really it is coming out to a point where users are looking for more and more control over how the "auto modes" behave. At the end of the day it will not do what you want in all the situations. Looking forward to the day when camera vendors open their software platforms so you could write your own little snippet to decide how you want the damn thing to behave



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