Lithium-ion battery option for Elinchrom Quadra!
/forum/topic/1091706/0

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Robb Mann
Registered: Nov 01, 2009
Total Posts: 454
Country: United States

Just heard that Elinchrom will be coming out with a backwards-compatible Lithium-Ion battery for the Quadra, don't know if new Quadra kits will ship with it or not.

Battery is one kilo lighter - 4.4lbs bs 6.6, charges 15% faster, and has more total power. Not sure on pricing yet. Supposed to be available in early summer in the USA.

So, I'll be able to shave almost 5lbs off of my location lighting kit - very good news, as the batteries were the heaviest thing In m gear.



f1.2
Registered: Oct 23, 2004
Total Posts: 244
Country: Netherlands

The Flash centre has them up for preorder.
http://www.theflashcentre.com/images/focus_flyer_2012_web.pdf



PeterBerressem
Registered: Sep 05, 2007
Total Posts: 729
Country: Germany

Erik, I think it's time to correct the name of your domicile The Hague, don't you agree?



S Dilworth
Registered: Oct 10, 2011
Total Posts: 484
Country: France

Nice option. However, Elinchrom says this about the current battery:

The gel-electrolyte battery is a rock-solid battery, similar to car or motorcycle batteries.
- Long life and robust
- No leakage
- No memory effect
- Great performance at low temperatures
- Great efficiency at low prices
- Storage for spare part fuses on the battery top
- Secure battery locking system


Lithium-ion batteries are fussy, short-lived things in comparison, and certainly not "rock-solid". They do have far higher power density, though.



f1.2
Registered: Oct 23, 2004
Total Posts: 244
Country: Netherlands

PeterBerressem wrote:
Erik, I think it's time to correct the name of your domicile The Hague, don't you agree?


You are absolutely right Peter. It's been that way for years... thanks for the tip.

Erik



RJKphoto
Registered: Oct 28, 2010
Total Posts: 1469
Country: United States

They are also planning a Lithium Ion battery for the Ranger RX AS power pack as well, though no date is available yet. That's save a huge amount of weight!



photosymbol
Registered: Nov 08, 2011
Total Posts: 324
Country: United States

http://www.theflashcentre.com/elinchrom-ranger-quadra-lithium-ion-battery-preorder-i8476.html

Specs are quite impressive.



RayRaff
Registered: Oct 21, 2010
Total Posts: 7
Country: United Kingdom

The battery is now released, but unfortunately it's NOT completely backward compatible.

If you were one of the customers who made Quadra a success by buying the first or second generation of the system the new battery will NOT work with your flash heads. Elinchrom expect you to pay 40 per head to have them modified, so they will work with the new battery.

The manual says:

RANGER
QUADRA HEAD
S & A VERSION
(SECOND
GENERATION)

RANGER
QUADRA HEAD
S & A vERSION
(FIRST
GENERATION)

S Version:

from SN. 1701

A Version:
from SN. 5401

S Version:
up to
S.N.1700

A Version:
up to
S.N. 5400

Compatible, in case the Battery Box
switches off, the RQ Heads can be
modified. The upgrade modification is
chargeable.

Not recommended, the Li-Ion Battery
may switch off! Previous RQ Heads can
be modified. The upgrade modification is
chargeable.

The manual can be found at:

https://docs.google.com/gview?url=http://elinchrom.s3.amazonaws.com/download/120627-RangerLi-Ion-BatteryBox-UserManual.pdf&chrome=true

It just shows you should never buy the first or even the second generation of anything. Maybe if people hadn't bought Quadra it would have flopped and Elinchrom would have struggled financially?

The new battery + a new lithium-ion battery charger is 300 and after all that the power display on the control unit still won't display the correct battery charge levels. You have to use the power bars on the battery box itself to see how much charge you have left.

It appears Elinchrom has decided to reward its loyal customers by making them pay extra to use its products. Go Elinchrom!

Maybe we should all refuse to buy the new battery just in case they bring out a second generation version and you have to pay for a modification to use it?



James10013
Registered: May 24, 2010
Total Posts: 158
Country: United States

RayRaff wrote:
The battery is now released, but unfortunately it's NOT completely backward compatible.

If you were one of the customers who made Quadra a success by buying the first or second generation of the system the new battery will NOT work with your flash heads. Elinchrom expect you to pay 40 per head to have them modified, so they will work with the new battery.

The manual says:

RANGER
QUADRA HEAD
S & A VERSION
(SECOND
GENERATION)

RANGER
QUADRA HEAD
S & A vERSION
(FIRST
GENERATION)

S Version:

from SN. 1701

A Version:
from SN. 5401

S Version:
up to
S.N.1700

A Version:
up to
S.N. 5400

Compatible, in case the Battery Box
switches off, the RQ Heads can be
modified. The upgrade modification is
chargeable.

Not recommended, the Li-Ion Battery
may switch off! Previous RQ Heads can
be modified. The upgrade modification is
chargeable.

The manual can be found at:

https://docs.google.com/gview?url=http://elinchrom.s3.amazonaws.com/download/120627-RangerLi-Ion-BatteryBox-UserManual.pdf&chrome=true

It just shows you should never buy the first or even the second generation of anything. Maybe if people hadn't bought Quadra it would have flopped and Elinchrom would have struggled financially?

The new battery + a new lithium-ion battery charger is 300 and after all that the power display on the control unit still won't display the correct battery charge levels. You have to use the power bars on the battery box itself to see how much charge you have left.

It appears Elinchrom has decided to reward its loyal customers by making them pay extra to use its products. Go Elinchrom!

Maybe we should all refuse to buy the new battery just in case they bring out a second generation version and you have to pay for a modification to use it?


If you needed a 400 watt battery and the early generation of Quadras allowed you to advance your business or imaging, why would a fee for a discretionary upgrade be problematic? It's not like they are discontinuing the original battery, so no one is being forced to make a change. Other lighting companies have similarly charged for upgrades as technology has advanced.



RayRaff
Registered: Oct 21, 2010
Total Posts: 7
Country: United Kingdom

James10013 wrote:
If you needed a 400 watt battery and the early generation of Quadras allowed you to advance your business or imaging, why would a fee for a discretionary upgrade be problematic? It's not like they are discontinuing the original battery, so no one is being forced to make a change. Other lighting companies have similarly charged for upgrades as technology has advanced.

You're already paying 300 for the new battery, which people would be happy to pay.

Why should we have to pay for a modification to the heads, which is a problem Elinchrom have given its users?

It's not really paying for an upgrade. It's paying to resolve a compatibility issue due to a design issue Elinchrom had in its product. The upgrade would be paying the 300 for the new battery.

Maybe some customers have lots of money and are happy having to pay for modifications to kit just so they can pay even more money for the new accessories?

How about a compromise of giving customers with the first or second generation heads a discounted price on the battery, which allows for them having to pay for the heads to be modified?



Gregg Heckler
Registered: Aug 07, 2005
Total Posts: 1921
Country: United States

I believe James' point is that you don't have to upgrade if you don't want to spend the money. No one is forcing you too. Their existing battery works just fine. How many hardware makers (computer, studio lighting, cars, appliances, etc.) give you no charge upgrades to their hardware?



RayRaff
Registered: Oct 21, 2010
Total Posts: 7
Country: United Kingdom

Gregg Heckler wrote:
I believe James' point is that you don't have to upgrade if you don't want to spend the money. No one is forcing you too. Their existing battery works just fine. How many hardware makers (computer, studio lighting, cars, appliances, etc.) give you no charge upgrades to their hardware?


I'm not asking for a free upgrade to their hardware. That would be spending the 300 on a new battery and charger.

Many car makers supply free mods when a defect is found in a part under their factory recall programmes. I consider this lack of compatibility to be a defect as the new heads don't need modifying to make them work.

We're being asked to pay 40 per head to modify them to make them compatible with a new battery. Would you expect to have to modify a head if you were moving to a new battery? Clearly some silent updates have been made to the heads as the latest generation of them don't require a mod to work with the new battery. This hasn't been made clear to customers and now we're being expected to pay to fix a problem Elinchrom has given us.



James10013
Registered: May 24, 2010
Total Posts: 158
Country: United States

RayRaff wrote:
Gregg Heckler wrote:
I believe James' point is that you don't have to upgrade if you don't want to spend the money. No one is forcing you too. Their existing battery works just fine. How many hardware makers (computer, studio lighting, cars, appliances, etc.) give you no charge upgrades to their hardware?


I'm not asking for a free upgrade to their hardware. That would be spending the 300 on a new battery and charger.

Many car makers supply free mods when a defect is found in a part under their factory recall programmes. I consider this lack of compatibility to be a defect as the new heads don't need modifying to make them work.

We're being asked to pay 40 per head to modify them to make them compatible with a new battery. Would you expect to have to modify a head if you were moving to a new battery? Clearly some silent updates have been made to the heads as the latest generation of them don't require a mod to work with the new battery. This hasn't been made clear to customers and now we're being expected to pay to fix a problem Elinchrom has given us.


I understand how you feel, but since the heads work with the equipment as originally spec'ed, and with the battery originally supplied they cannot be labeled defective. There is a huge difference between something which is several years old and incompatible with new technology and something which is defective. The term "defect" where manufacturing and design are concerned at least here in the US has product liability ramifications, and it would appear that neither poor quality of workmanship or designing a product which is dangerous or useless are the case with the original Quadra packs or heads.
As for "silent updates," manufacturer's always have the option to alter manufacturing processes to upgrade items so as to make them compatible with new technologies or enhance functionality. The cost of doing so during manufacturing is a lot less costly than having to retrofit items. Sometimes backward compatibility can be acheived seamlessly, and other times it can't. In this case it could not be achieved seamlessly. From a company's/shareholder's position, a reasonable charge for the retrofit seems logical; users of course may feel differently.



RayRaff
Registered: Oct 21, 2010
Total Posts: 7
Country: United Kingdom

lithium ion batteries aren't exactly new technology and thus whatever issue the heads have with working with one should have been foreseen. One might describe this as a flaw in the original design.

I have received an email from the CEO of Elinchrom about this issue today. He told me there are more heads out there than I think and therefore they couldn't offer a free modification to resolve the compatibility issue. I have suggested that maybe a discount on the battery could be offered for a period of time in a similar way to how Adobe handle new releases of their software. They could offer the battery to you at 280 and then you pay 40 extra per head to fix the compatibility issue. The alternatives seem to be:

1. Customers pay full price to get their kit continually updated

2. Customers choose not to update their kit and thus the potential group of customers able to buy newer accessories gets smaller and Elinchrom lose out on sales. In my eyes it would make sense for Elinchrom to encourage as many customers as possible to upgrade so they can sell the newer accessories to them. However it appears they're not interested in doing so.



photosymbol
Registered: Nov 08, 2011
Total Posts: 324
Country: United States

B&H is still not showing these as in stock. When will they reach our shores? sigh...



RayRaff
Registered: Oct 21, 2010
Total Posts: 7
Country: United Kingdom

photosymbol wrote:
B&H is still not showing these as in stock. When will they reach our shores? sigh...

Get your money ready to pay for the flash head modifications.



photosymbol
Registered: Nov 08, 2011
Total Posts: 324
Country: United States

RayRaff wrote:
photosymbol wrote:
B&H is still not showing these as in stock. When will they reach our shores? sigh...

Get your money ready to pay for the flash head modifications.

Done.



Hulot
Registered: Jan 22, 2012
Total Posts: 197
Country: N/A

My retailer said there is not need to modify older models of the quadra! I will check this out myself next time I visit them.



miccullen
Registered: May 22, 2003
Total Posts: 1126
Country: Australia

Hulot wrote:
My retailer said there is not need to modify older models of the quadra! I will check this out myself next time I visit them.


Well, I guess the retailer would know more than the manufacturer, so you're good to go!



Hulot
Registered: Jan 22, 2012
Total Posts: 197
Country: N/A

Yes, I am already looking forward to wash his head



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