Shutter Count Relevant or Not
/forum/topic/1068257/0

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kbarrera
Registered: Apr 11, 2009
Total Posts: 794
Country: United States

Latey, there's been a lot more emphasis on shutter count. To me, shutter count is like the mileage on a car. Granted, a camera can go well past it's rated shutter life. Exterior wear will not affect the operation of a given camera. But a high shutter count means you're closer to a replacement, which could be costly.
What's your opinion?

Al



BrianO
Registered: Aug 21, 2008
Total Posts: 8552
Country: United States

I think you're right.

A casual shooter might get away with using a high-count camera for a long time, but a pro or avid amateur could by a camera only to need relatively expensive repairs soon after getting it.

Shutter count should be factored into the price of a used camera, just as mileage is for used cars.



omarlyn
Registered: Feb 19, 2004
Total Posts: 4066
Country: United States

It's relevant but it sometimes get's over-used as the 'sole' factor in determining condition. Other factors are just as important as well.

Omar



galenapass
Registered: Feb 09, 2006
Total Posts: 3926
Country: United States

Why is this a "lately" phenomena? I've been buying and selling (and monitoring just in case a real deal shows up) on the B&S board here for at least 5 years and shutter count has always been one of the factors that is an input into the decision process of buying a used camera. I don't see any change from this for the last 5 years, at least here on FM. Same as a used car - what is the millage, who drove it, how many owner has it had, etc.... Nothing has changed IMO.



kbarrera
Registered: Apr 11, 2009
Total Posts: 794
Country: United States

I think in the past, sellers have been guessing with respect to shutter count. a lot of guys simply look at the file number and assume that's the shutter count. It appears the only way to get an accurate count is to send it to Canon. So the question is; is the seller obligated to provide an accurate count. My opinion is yes. if you're going to advertise a camera with a specific count, then it should be accurate , even if it means sending it to Canon.

Al



Geert Koning
Registered: Aug 23, 2005
Total Posts: 1303
Country: Netherlands

kbarrera wrote:
So the question is; is the seller obligated to provide an accurate count. My opinion is yes.Al



That is quite obvious to me.



Lars Johnsson
Registered: Jun 29, 2003
Total Posts: 33650
Country: Thailand

Geert Koning wrote:
kbarrera wrote:
So the question is; is the seller obligated to provide an accurate count. My opinion is yes.Al



That is quite obvious to me.


How can he/she be obligated to provide that You can't se the shutter count. And in many bodies it's impossible to check it



BrianO
Registered: Aug 21, 2008
Total Posts: 8552
Country: United States

Lars Johnsson wrote: How can he/she be obligated to provide that You can't se the shutter count. And in many bodies it's impossible to check it

What was said is that if the seller gives a shutter count, it needs to be an accurate one; not that one must provide a shutter count.

To reitterate:

kbarrera wrote: ...if you're going to advertise a camera with a specific count, then it should be accurate , even if it means sending it to Canon.



Lars Johnsson
Registered: Jun 29, 2003
Total Posts: 33650
Country: Thailand

omarlyn wrote:
It's relevant but it sometimes get's over-used as the 'sole' factor in determining condition. Other factors are just as important as well.

Omar


Yes it's way over used as a factor of determining the cameras condition.
You can get an accurate shutter count of 500 clicks. But the shutter maybe have been replaced a couple of times. Which makes other parts in the body well used and old.

Another body with 100k clicks will maybe be a lot less used.



Lars Johnsson
Registered: Jun 29, 2003
Total Posts: 33650
Country: Thailand

BrianO wrote:
Lars Johnsson wrote: How can he/she be obligated to provide that You can't se the shutter count. And in many bodies it's impossible to check it

What was said is that if the seller gives a shutter count, it needs to be an accurate one; not that one must provide a shutter count.

To reitterate:

kbarrera wrote: ...if you're going to advertise a camera with a specific count, then it should be accurate , even if it means sending it to Canon.


Yes in that case he have to give the right number. But it's not more important than saying it's mint condition or describing anything else. And like I wrote before, the shutter could have been replaced many times



kbarrera
Registered: Apr 11, 2009
Total Posts: 794
Country: United States

All true. However if the sellers states that the camera has a specific shutter count then that seller is obligated to know, not guess that the count number be true and accurate. If the count is not what he says it is, then that is clear misrepresentation.

If a seller represents a specific number than it is he who is putting an emphasis on that fact when determining the value of his camera.

if a seller states that he is not sure or can not provide that information, then the buyer has the option of not doing business with that seller.

Al



Lars Johnsson
Registered: Jun 29, 2003
Total Posts: 33650
Country: Thailand

I have never seen anybody writing an exact number. If somebody say it has 50k, should it be exact then ? Or how much can it be different from that number?



TrojanHorse
Registered: Apr 04, 2008
Total Posts: 2747
Country: United States

I think you're being a little high maintenance about this - I'm comfortable with a seller (assuming a good reputation) telling me the camera has approximately 30k on the shutter. There isn't much difference in my mind between 30k and 38k, assuming he estimated incorrectly. Most of us have a pretty fair idea how many pictures we've taken.

If he has good feedback here, I'm going to believe him. If he doesn't, it doesn't matter what he says I probably won't believe him. Or her.

You use the car analogy but there's an odometer on a car. Its easily verified by a buyer too, you don't have to go to a mechanic in California or New Jersey to figure it out.



kbarrera
Registered: Apr 11, 2009
Total Posts: 794
Country: United States

In my case the seller said 62k and Canon CPS said 194,000.

More than just a minor discrepancy.

My enterpretation of accuracy is, give or take 5,000 clicks.
I think that's reasonable

Al



Lars Johnsson
Registered: Jun 29, 2003
Total Posts: 33650
Country: Thailand

kbarrera wrote:
In my case the seller said 62k and Canon CPS said 194,000.

More than just a minor discrepancy.

My enterpretation of accuracy is, give or take 5,000 clicks.
I think that's reasonable

Al


Is it also ok if the seller say 62k, and it's accurate. But he don't say the shutter have been replaced ?

Everything the seller say should be accurate of course. But shutter count is not more important than any other thing about the body. Some people call a body mint when other would call it near mint. Some say it's like new or unused, where others would say different.
And where you say 5000 clicks is the limit. Others would say 500 or 10,000.



TrojanHorse
Registered: Apr 04, 2008
Total Posts: 2747
Country: United States

Well, in your case that's a gross discrepancy, not an estimation error. I don't think anybody would argue that's reasonable.



jcolwell
Registered: Feb 10, 2005
Total Posts: 21509
Country: Canada

In my experience, shutter count is not especially relevant.

Assuming you're talking about the 1DIIN in your profile, your seller's inaccurate shutter count could be a completely innocent error. Some (if not all) well-known, freeware shutter-count apps are not accurate. This was frequently discussed when the 1DII-series cameras were relatively new. It's quite possible that your seller was misinformed by an app that he or she assumed was reliable. Anyway, don't worry. In my experience, shutter count is not especially relevant.



kbarrera
Registered: Apr 11, 2009
Total Posts: 794
Country: United States

jcolwell wrote:
In my experience, shutter count is not especially relevant.

Assuming you're talking about the 1DIIN in your profile, your seller's inaccurate shutter count could be a completely innocent error. Some (if not all) well-known, freeware shutter-count apps are not accurate. This was frequently discussed when the 1DII-series cameras were relatively new. It's quite possible that your seller was misinformed by an app that he or she assumed was reliable. Anyway, don't worry. In my experience, shutter count is noGt especially relevant.


I guess you're right. We are talking about a frickin camera here. But as as the owner of a construction co. If I were to sell a backhoe and told the buyer it had 20,000 hours on it and it really had 60,000, Mistake or no mistake, I'd be writing this post from my hospital bed. That being said, I think I will keep the camera and use it til the shutter craps out. When that happens I will just replace it.

Thanks for the input.

Al



ggOk
Registered: Sep 28, 2011
Total Posts: 687
Country: United States

for many amateurs like me, there is no way to figure out what's good and what's not.
one sure way to find out if the camera's been used and abused is low shutter count.
that's just me. if one has less than 1000 clicks... probably and most likely the term 'like new' can be assumed.

Andy



anthonygh
Registered: Jan 09, 2006
Total Posts: 1852
Country: United Kingdom

I have a 1v which has just done 30 films......but I have just seen a seller on eBay selling a 1v describing how his camera has only recorded 20 films; and has then gone on to point out that they were mostly 24 exposures films, and some had been re-wound mid roll anyway!!

So some people seem to get stressed by this issue!!



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