Zeiss Lens Photos and Discussion
/forum/topic/1009161/171

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bruniroquai
Registered: Apr 08, 2012
Total Posts: 104
Country: Spain



One question guys!

I'm between the 5D or the D700 just for portraits, with a good 85/135 but.. my main concern are.. Focussing screen, EG-S or there is out there some good Focus screen for the d700, same as the EGS?
85 the 1.4G is a beast, fantastic but it has not the soul of the Zeiss.. and the 85L? Pfff.. too big I think and Canon focus.. well We know.

So. D700 with the 85 ZF.2 , good enough even wide open to make 50x70cm prints and would be possible change the normal Focus Screen for a good one as Canon has?

Thanks!



wfrank
Registered: Feb 09, 2011
Total Posts: 3217
Country: Sweden

Why not go Canon 5D2 with 21 MP instead of those two with 12? If so you could skip ZE/ZF and go for the original, C/Y Contax Zeiss Planar 85/1.4 which is as good or better for those that notice the difference. But it is a dangerous road, there's a whole bunch of great C/Y's out there waiting..

For Nikon I hear some people put the Canon EG-S into their cams so I guess it works, but it is not supported and I think it needs some alteration of the screen.



bruniroquai
Registered: Apr 08, 2012
Total Posts: 104
Country: Spain

Are You sure the C/Y is good or better than the new ZE?



wfrank
Registered: Feb 09, 2011
Total Posts: 3217
Country: Sweden

Well some would argue that generally the ZEs would be marginally better corrected for various optic deficiencies, have slightly "sharper" MTFs and that newer is always better. And you get a guarantee too. Others would say that the CY have more character, delivers more 3D, better colors and that their build has proven its perfection over time. And one thing that matters to me is that the ZEs have electronic aperture, something which will render them useless for that future upcoming mirrorless FF - whereas the CYs will shine even more than before :-)

But even though I have a bunch of CYs and just one ZE I would be (almost) as happy IQ-wise if it was the other way around.



mpmendenhall
Registered: Aug 09, 2008
Total Posts: 2034
Country: United States

bruniroquai wrote:
Are You sure the C/Y is good or better than the new ZE?


You can go to the Zeiss download center to see what Zeiss' own data sheets say about the lenses. Here's a quick overlay of the CY and ZE MTFs at f1.4; CY = thicker lines, ZE = thinner lines:





For medium and fine detail wide open, the CY actually pulls a bit ahead over most of the frame. Here's the overlay at f5.6:





The ZE has a central frame sharpness/resolution advantage, but over most of the image area the CY again comes out ahead. Even in raw MTF terms (setting aside any preferences for the charming rendering character of the old lenses), the CY's are often as good or better than their modern counterparts (at least in some ways).

I also personally prefer the build quality and design of the older CY lenses. Of course, you lose auto-aperture (but gain a physical aperture ring on the lens, which I like).


bruniroquai
Registered: Apr 08, 2012
Total Posts: 104
Country: Spain

But.. that is not desirable in portraits? Sharp in the center going softer in the edges?



wfrank
Registered: Feb 09, 2011
Total Posts: 3217
Country: Sweden

Nice graphs mpmendenhall, never seen it done like that.




mpmendenhall
Registered: Aug 09, 2008
Total Posts: 2034
Country: United States

bruniroquai wrote:
But.. that is not desirable in portraits? Sharp in the center going softer in the edges?


Poorer peripheral sharpness is often considered less problematic for portrait applications, but is unlikely to be considered a positive lens attribute. With a fast lens like this, you generally let the shallow depth of field and subject/background separation provide soft backgrounds around an in-focus subject, rather than relying on poor lens performance to smear out in-focal-plane edge areas. You might not always want portraits with the subject right at the center; and a "portrait" lens can be used for more than portraits. Both the CY and ZE lens are perfectly good lenses, and for particular subjects (and matters of taste), a (slight) advantage could go to either one (and, in most cases, they will be hard to tell apart at all). However, the MTF comparison between the old and new lenses indicates that the old CY is in no general way optically inferior to its ZE counterpart.



Ronny Olsson
Registered: Jun 24, 2012
Total Posts: 5053
Country: Sweden

Great shot craig


Zeiss Makro-Planar T* 100mm f/2 ZF by Ronny Olsson, on Flickr



Lieutenant Z
Registered: Nov 21, 2010
Total Posts: 3777
Country: France

Bad shot Ronny : not sharp in the corners !



bruniroquai
Registered: Apr 08, 2012
Total Posts: 104
Country: Spain

mpmendenhall wrote:
bruniroquai wrote:
But.. that is not desirable in portraits? Sharp in the center going softer in the edges?


Poorer peripheral sharpness is often considered less problematic for portrait applications, but is unlikely to be considered a positive lens attribute. With a fast lens like this, you generally let the shallow depth of field and subject/background separation provide soft backgrounds around an in-focus subject, rather than relying on poor lens performance to smear out in-focal-plane edge areas. You might not always want portraits with the subject right at the center; and a "portrait" lens can be used for more than portraits. Both the CY and ZE lens are perfectly good lenses, and for particular subjects (and matters of taste), a (slight) advantage could go to either one (and, in most cases, they will be hard to tell apart at all). However, the MTF comparison between the old and new lenses indicates that the old CY is in no general way optically inferior to its ZE counterpart.



Thank You!

So.. where can I find one in EU?

BTW, 100mm F2 Contax Planar over the 85 1.4? 100 MP too expensive right now..



mpmendenhall
Registered: Aug 09, 2008
Total Posts: 2034
Country: United States

bruniroquai wrote:
So.. where can I find one in EU?


I don't know many places in the EU, but Ffordes often has a good selection (and prices sometimes worth overseas shipping). They don't appear to have any 85/1.4's in stock right now, but a bunch of 100/2's; be patient, and they will eventually show up. There's also eBay, and I'm sure a lot more local EU shops that I don't know about.


BTW, 100mm F2 Contax Planar over the 85 1.4?

Matter of personal preference and comfortability with the focal length. 100/2 will be more expensive (and a little bigger/heavier), and a bit harder to hand-hold in lower light (slower aperture, longer focal length), but it's one of my favorite lenses (and preferable to the 85/1.4 range to me). 100/2 will provide extremely uniform image quality --- no sharpness falloff at all towards edges/corners --- and a very clearly delineated plane of focus. Shooting a longer lens with a slower aperture can provide more depth-of-field on the in-focus subject for the same amount of far-background blurring; so in portraiture, for example, you won't have so much of "one eye in focus, other blurry" while keeping the subject sharply separated from the background.



bruniroquai
Registered: Apr 08, 2012
Total Posts: 104
Country: Spain

Mmm.. and the 100 is even better than the 85 ZE?



mpmendenhall
Registered: Aug 09, 2008
Total Posts: 2034
Country: United States

bruniroquai wrote:
Mmm.. and the 100 is even better than the 85 ZE?


I wouldn't absolutely say "better," but different. The CY 100/2 at f2 is going to provide a sharper, clearer image than the 85/1.4 (either version) at f1.4, while providing a similar amount of subject isolation from far backgrounds --- a feature of the longer focal length. When operated at equal f-numbers, the 85/1.4 may come out a bit ahead (MTFs show the 85/1.4 generally doing better at f5.6 than the 100/2 at f5.6).

I have a personal preference for the more tele-compressed images from longer focal lengths, with increased on-subject depth of field and improved optical characteristics of working at slower apertures, while still providing plenty of subject isolation. On the other hand, if you prefer the "look" of a shorter/faster lens --- more background context in the frame, ultra-thin DOF on the subject --- then an 85/1.4 might be better for you.

What's you're intended use for the lens? Do you need/want extra speed for lower-light handheld shots? Is portraiture your main intent, or other uses too? I'd suggest searching these forums and the web for images with each lens, to see whether you prefer one particular style or another.



sculptormic
Registered: Feb 05, 2012
Total Posts: 2582
Country: Netherlands

For the more fortunate lovers of fast Zeiss glass!

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Zeiss-Contax-Anniversary-Collection-Planar-T-1-2-55-1-2-85-2-135-/300914516085?clk_rvr_id=489673791860



wfrank
Registered: Feb 09, 2011
Total Posts: 3217
Country: Sweden

sculptormic wrote:
For the more fortunate lovers of fast Zeiss glass!

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Zeiss-Contax-Anniversary-Collection-Planar-T-1-2-55-1-2-85-2-135-/300914516085?clk_rvr_id=489673791860


jeez. And that is just a starting prize.



Mescalamba
Registered: Jul 06, 2011
Total Posts: 3731
Country: Czech Republic

That 135/2 is bit "not needed", but those two others were made only in this collection if Im correct. There is one owner of 85/1,2 here on FM.



sculptormic
Registered: Feb 05, 2012
Total Posts: 2582
Country: Netherlands

His other auctions are also worth looking. All top notch stuff.



mpmendenhall
Registered: Aug 09, 2008
Total Posts: 2034
Country: United States

sculptormic wrote:
For the more fortunate lovers of fast Zeiss glass!

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Zeiss-Contax-Anniversary-Collection-Planar-T-1-2-55-1-2-85-2-135-/300914516085?clk_rvr_id=489673791860


The more fortunate lovers of fast Zeiss glass are the ones who already have these in their collection. The less fortunate lovers of fast Zeiss glass are the ones who have just been impelled to count how many internal organs they can sell in the next 11.5 hours. At least the shipping is cheap!



sculptormic
Registered: Feb 05, 2012
Total Posts: 2582
Country: Netherlands

mpmendenhall wrote:
sculptormic wrote:
For the more fortunate lovers of fast Zeiss glass!

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Zeiss-Contax-Anniversary-Collection-Planar-T-1-2-55-1-2-85-2-135-/300914516085?clk_rvr_id=489673791860


The more fortunate lovers of fast Zeiss glass are the ones who already have these in their collection. The less fortunate lovers of fast Zeiss glass are the ones who have just been impelled to count how many internal organs they can sell in the next 11.5 hours. At least the shipping is cheap!





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