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Re: First Sony Impression

sungphoto wrote:
chez wrote:
sungphoto wrote:
chez wrote:
sungphoto wrote:
chez wrote:
sungphoto wrote:
Or you could find and see the light (I mean isnít that one of our biggest pursuits?), donít shoot at noon on a bright sunny day, frame and compose differently so you donít have to lean on post processing as heavily.

If you havenít heard of him, an amazing Sony shooter, Ira Block has some great tips on proper composition and finding the right light in conditions like yours. I was privileged to see the images from his soon to be released book a couple years ago, printed large, and you rarely see massively high contrast in his work

chez wrote:
sungphoto wrote:
philip_pj wrote:
Just dealing with the statement and reasonable implications to be drawn from it, readers see your quote at the page top.

I think what it is, is that you and a lot of Canonistas quite reasonably figure that IF you work around the (older) Canon sensors' - shall we say - shortcomings with flash, assistants etc, all is well, and that is the trad event pro take on things. I simply want to indicate that (i) many people need to lift shadows in the course of their very different work, and (ii) the market leader has fallen badly behind the newcomer and that makes a serious difference to the end result for these folks. And how about that ISO invariance, how good is that? I never rated ETTR highly, O/E too risky and flaky highlights afterwards.

If you are the market leader, people form certain expectations of high performance. Reputations are built over years and decades, and lost in a very short period, and that is what is happening to Canon - they grew very complacent, with old sensor tech and an ancient prime lens range. Given lead times it's a slide that is hard to arrest. Then, their Mickey Mouse effort at MILC thus far. It might fool the uninformed consumer demographic for a while, but not people here. The company might yet rise phoenix-like, but who'd put money on it?

Huh? I own Canon, Sony and Fuji. I shot with primarily Sony gear professionally for a couple years before I switch back to Canon for my professional kit, and have put hundreds of thousands of frames through them.

Striving to get it right in camera isn't working around any specific camera's shortcomings, it's a business requirement. Saying that I'm suggesting using some sort of reflector, strobe, etc to get a proper exposure in camera rather than spending an hour in post dodging and burning a single image is in my opinion being a good photographer, rather than an excellent photoshopper. But apparently we have a difference in opinion on that.

Not different opinions...but maybe different photo conditions. There are many situations where you CANNOT stage a shoot with assistants holding reflectors in your efforts to "get it right in the camera". I'm going to be wandering the tight streets of Fes where I won't have anything with me but a camera. The bright sun with deep shadows in those streets will be challenging and you bet I'll need to lift shadows in post...no two ways around it. Won't have an assistant with me to bail out my camera.

You have no idea do you? Your entire photo experience has been artificial, ( assistants, reflectors, fill flash )...that's ok, but please don't go about spouting off to shoot only when you have good light. There are amazing photos to be taken with harsh light and shadows adding drama to the image. I understand you shooting Canon stay away from these scenes as they blow out the sensor, but I can definitely say you are missing out on great dramatic street images ( as life does continue to happen when the sun is high in the sky ) by shying away from midday.

You've found me out. I always walk around with a couple c-stands with strobes and a floppy when I'm taking photos of my nieces or a street scene in NY at high noon in natural light. It makes my camera bag a little big, but hey apparently my entire photo experience has been artificial.

Ok...you are right. The expanded dynamic range cameras are just for whoosies. "REAL" photographers either have an assistant to help control the light, or they make like a vampire and only shoot in nice light.

It's a difference of opinion for sure and I never said the only way to deal with high contrast scenes is to use off camera lights and reflectors etc (though for me acting solo I can set up a strobe on location and set my exposure extremely quickly). It's one way to skin a cat - I'd prefer to use natural light, and find good light (which yes is still quite possible in even challenging conditions). I personally don't think it's a good idea to depend on pushing a file by 4 stops and shadows by 100+ on a regular basis, even on a camera that is capable of doing it. Just like I wouldn't jam on brakes with 40 feet from a wall knowing my car's braking distance at extremes is 40 feet. Getting it right in camera is the best route for me, and yes using better dynamic range where needed but if it's going to require a lot more time in post processing I bill the client for it. If your "creative approach" is to under-expose files by 4 stops on a regular basis, and then spend an hour on each photo dodging and burning it, that's fine if it's your personal work but you're going to have a hard time scaling that into a business. If that's not your aim, that's fine - but I'd rather spend more time behind a camera than in front of a computer.

Well I see a difference right off the bat. You look for good light where you can take your staged portraits. I look to where the action is and deal with the light that is given to me. That to me is a fundamental difference in our approaches. You stage your photos, I take spontaneous photos.

As far as taking time in post, not a chance. Quick adjustments is all that is really required. In fact I had to take much longer with my Canon images to deal with noise in the shadows and colour banding issues.

Ira Block just posted some stuff from Fez today. Somehow he took a street photo there in the apparently impossible light. Still this is Ira Block

Not sure what your obsession with Ira Block is all about but not everyone rates him as highly as you do. Like most photographers he's hit and miss (IMHO) and yes I have him and many others on Instagram so see their work as soon as posted.

I'm not sure which Fez(Fes) shot you're referring to but on Instagram he has a medina shot of a woman strolling down the street (severely blown highlights), a shot over the medina from a rooftop, a Jemaa el-Fnaa shot from Marrakech or of course you may be talking about one of the many posed shots ?

Prefer my own to be honest. There's nothing special on his FB or Instagram timelines.

As for your arguments re. the Sony vs Canon sensors, all I'm seeing is confirmation bias rather than facts. People need to convince themselves that their decisions (in your case to drop Sony and return to Canon) are correct.

There are still valid reasons to switch systems, in either direction, it depends what you require from your gear/service, however arguing against what can be done with the Sony sensor in favour of (or simply as an alternative to) workarounds on Canon's isn't one of them, IMO.

BTW I still use Nikon for sports and birds and wouldn't change except if challenged by airline weight restrictions or having to hike for days with the heft of my Nikons.

Oct 06, 2017 at 09:49 AM

  Previous versions of Frogfish's message #14206716 « First Sony Impression »