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  Previous versions of RustyBug's message #10851581 « Image was appropriated , but credited, what to do? »

  

RustyBug
Online
Upload & Sell: On
Re: Image was appropriated , but credited, what to do?


Send them an invoice for payment? While your first "publication", it still warrants payment for services rendered (you did the work) and usage of your works.


A few questions @ the pic.
When did you first post it?
When did they steal/lift/borrow/inappropriate/use?


They obviously took it and will try to use a "loophole" or two to justify it. Don't buy into the loophole ... they stole it. This is a copyright legal matter ... they likely know where the "loopholes" are and more importantly they know that most people are totally ignorant on the legal aspects of the matter. Take some time to inform yourself on the legal aspects of the matter, so that they can't so readily buffalo you like taking candy from a baby. They will try ... and if you remain uniformed, they'll succeed.

Have you registered the image yet? (I already know the answer to that one ... more on that to follow). Even unregistered works are still copyrighted ... it just changes how much $$$ can be awarded in a suit and whether attorney fees are recompensable.

It is still a copyright violation, pure & simple. Whether your recourse is for a few hundred/thousand $$$ (unregistered) or the maximum limits of the law $150,000 (registered) for punitive damages (iirc) will depend on several factors, including timely registration vs. unregistered works. damages, attorney fees, etc.

It sounds like you aren't up for a legal battle over copyright ... so send them an invoice for payment. Then it becomes a more of a small claims issue. where they simply owe you for your work rendered.

If I'm a woodworker and I make park bench and set it out in my yard for everyone to admire ... then someone comes along and takes it because I had put it on public display in my own yard (i.e. domain/account). I had set it on public display for their enjoyment of VIEWING, not for the gain of USING. Just because I allowed others to view it, doesn't give them the right to take it and use it. You take my workmanship (bench) you owe me for its value ... the wood, the tools, my experience, my time, my expenses and at a reasonable profit. While I didn't originally do it for profit ... the fact that you took it from me (stolen) is either criminal ... or if you prefer ... a business transaction (non-criminal) in which I would only engage in for profit (certainly not loss).

AND ... just because they only put it in their yard or business, but never "sold it" for monetary profit ... they still benefited / gained / profited from using it.

Without your permission ... THEY STOLE IT. PERIOD.

What your recourse action possibilities are and the law behind your actions are something that you'll need to learn more of.

Here's link that will have a bevy of discussion regarding a similar situation with a "non-profit" entity. Don't let the whole "blog" thing make you think they aren't gaining from usage of your works.
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/905375/0?keyword=copyright#8533496

You need to understand IN YOUR MIND ... they either STOLE IT (criminal) or they have entered into an INCOMPLETE BUSINESS TRANSACTION (non-criminal) that you need to complete. My experience is that you'll get farther / easier via the non-criminal route ... but only if armed in the fact that they did in fact steal it as a copyright violation.

That will give you some teeth to complete the transaction that they would otherwise try to get you to believe you have ZERO entitlement to. That is simply NOT TRUE. It sucks that we have to "fight" to get what we are due ... but that's the way it is. Your choice at roll over and die, or proceed to claim/reclaim what is rightfully yours from those who misappropriated it from you. Even if they decide to "Oh well, we just won't use it then." ... excuse me, you already have.

If I were to go past a rental house that has a lawnmower on display, take it, then cut my grass with it. me simply ceasing to use it anymore doesn't change the fact that I did take it and I did use it for my own gain (even if money didn't exchange hands because I did if for myself) ... the rental company is still due payment (not simply give back the mower) for the usage period for which I had the mower. I either STOLE IT ... or I entered into an incomplete business transaction, for which they are due their rental (i.e. usage) fees. I could tell the whole world that I cut my grass with their mower (i.e. giving credit) ... but they are still due the rental (usage) fee.

Credit does not negate payment ... as far too many would like us to believe.

GL & HTH

NOTE: Before you go bashing on why/how the analogies are technically errant ... the point is to get the concept across to the OP ... his images were either taken without permission (i.e. stolen) or they were taken in advance of his permission. The terms of his granting permission have remained undefined to this point. He now needs to define the terms of his permission granting usage. His choice @ permission for free vs. permission for credit vs. permission for $$$ vs. no permission (i.e. take down). I just want to get into his head that in NO WAY, NO SHAPE, NO FORM did they have rights to do so ... despite the OP sounding like a "nice guy" that would have done so for credit alone, had they originally just asked for his permission.



Aug 02, 2012 at 06:33 PM
RustyBug
Online
Upload & Sell: On
Re: Image was appropriated , but credited, what to do?


Send them an invoice for payment? While your first "publication", it still warrants payment for services rendered (you did the work) and usage of your works.


A few questions @ the pic.
When did you first post it?
When did they steal/lift/borrow/inappropriate/use?


They obviously took it and will try to use a "loophole" or two to justify it. Don't buy into the loophole ... they stole it. This is a copyright legal matter ... they likely know where the "loopholes" are and more importantly they know that most people are totally ignorant on the legal aspects of the matter. Take some time to inform yourself on the legal aspects of the matter, so that they can't so readily buffalo you like taking candy from a baby. They will try ... and if you remain uniformed, they'll succeed.

Have you registered the image yet? (I already know the answer to that one ... more on that to follow). Even unregistered works are still copyrighted ... it just changes how much $$$ can be awarded in a suit and whether attorney fees are recompsable.

It is still a copyright violation, pure & simple. Whether your recourse is for a few hundred/thousand $$$ (unregistered) or the maximum limits of the law $150,000 (registered) for punitive damages (iirc) will depend on several factors, including timely registration vs. unregistered works. damages, attorney fees, etc.

It sounds like you aren't up for a legal battle over copyright ... so send them an invoice for payment. Then it becomes a more of a small claims issue. where they simply owe you for your work rendered.

If I'm a woodworker and I make park bench and set it out in my yard for everyone to admire ... then someone comes along and takes it because I had put it on public display in my own yard (i.e. domain/account). I had set it on public display for their enjoyment of VIEWING, not for the gain of USING. Just because I allowed others to view it, doesn't give them the right to take it and use it. You take my workmanship (bench) you owe me for its value ... the wood, the tools, my experience, my time, my expenses and at a reasonable profit. While I didn't originally do it for profit ... the fact that you took it from me (stolen) is either criminal ... or if you prefer ... a business transaction (non-criminal) in which I would only engage in for profit (certainly not loss).

AND ... just because they only put it in their yard or business, but never "sold it" for monetary profit ... they still benefited / gained / profited from using it.

Without your permission ... THEY STOLE IT. PERIOD.

What your recourse action possibilities are and the law behind your actions are something that you'll need to learn more of.

Here's link that will have a bevy of discussion regarding a similar situation with a "non-profit" entity. Don't let the whole "blog" thing make you think they aren't gaining from usage of your works.
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/905375/0?keyword=copyright#8533496

You need to understand IN YOUR MIND ... they either STOLE IT (criminal) or they have entered into an INCOMPLETE BUSINESS TRANSACTION (non-criminal) that you need to complete. My experience is that you'll get farther / easier via the non-criminal route ... but only if armed in the fact that they did in fact steal it as a copyright violation.

That will give you some teeth to complete the transaction that they would otherwise try to get you to believe you have ZERO entitlement to. That is simply NOT TRUE. It sucks that we have to "fight" to get what we are due ... but that's the way it is. Your choice at roll over and die, or proceed to claim/reclaim what is rightfully yours from those who misappropriated it from you. Even if they decide to "Oh well, we just won't use it then." ... excuse me, you already have.

If I were to go past a rental house that has a lawnmower on display, take it, then cut my grass with it. me simply ceasing to use it anymore doesn't change the fact that I did take it and I did use it for my own gain (even if money didn't exchange hands because I did if for myself) ... the rental company is still due payment (not simply give back the mower) for the usage period for which I had the mower. I either STOLE IT ... or I entered into an incomplete business transaction, for which they are due their rental (i.e. usage) fees. I could tell the whole world that I cut my grass with their mower (i.e. giving credit) ... but they are still due the rental (usage) fee.

Credit does not negate payment ... as far too many would like us to believe.

GL & HTH

NOTE: Before you go bashing on why/how the analogies are technically errant ... the point is to get the concept across to the OP ... his images were either taken without permission (i.e. stolen) or they were taken in advance of his permission. The terms of his granting permission have remained undefined to this point. He now needs to define the terms of his permission granting usage. His choice @ permission for free vs. permission for credit vs. permission for $$$ vs. no permission (i.e. take down). I just want to get into his head that in NO WAY, NO SHAPE, NO FORM did they have rights to do so ... despite the OP sounding like a "nice guy" that would have done so for credit alone, had they originally just asked for his permission.



Aug 02, 2012 at 01:12 PM



  Previous versions of RustyBug's message #10851581 « Image was appropriated , but credited, what to do? »