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  My Oly - I'm In Love (archived topic)  
Tariq Gibran
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pg turn

Dec 02, 2007 at 12:12 AM
Tariq Gibran
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pg turn 2

Dec 02, 2007 at 12:12 AM
Jorgen Udvang
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At last, today I had the possibility to try the E-3 for a few minutes. I can only say one thing: this is it! I thought it would be difficult to make a camera that gave a better "feel" than the E-1. They've done it, and the moment I buy mine, my other cameras will probably mostly be gathering dust. I'm seriously considering selling most of my Nikkors, and just keep a couple of fast primes for those special occasions when I need that.

Well done, Olympus!


Dec 02, 2007 at 01:05 PM
Alevan
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I was in the store about an hour ago, and took a look at your prints. The same young lady that you took pics of was behind the counter. She showed me the pics that you printed out and I am impressed. I cannot believe that these pics, especially the ISO 3200 pic of the camera bags are straight out of the E3 without any PP. The E3 keeps the detail, no smearing. I admit that I get caught up with the 200% pixel peeping games as well. I can imagine with a minimal use of NR from Noise Ninja/Noiseware etc the ISO 3200 prints will look fantastic in an album. I am definitely buying the E3. I brought a CF card as well and took some shots in the store and I cannot believe how good the IS is on the E3. With my Oly cams I rarely shoot over ISO 800, not because I am scared to but just my shooting needs. So if the E3 can produce files like this at ISO 1600/3200, I will put the high ISO debate out of my head forever.

Dec 02, 2007 at 05:20 PM
jamesf99
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Tariq Gibran wrote:
pg turn 2


Curious. What is this supposed to mean?


Dec 02, 2007 at 07:51 PM
jamesf99
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Robert Watcher wrote:
Got a chance to test shoot the new Olympus E-3 this evening. I mainly wanted to feel the camera in hand and play with the controls to see how intuative they are. Also, 2 concerns for my style of shooting are Image Stabilization and decent 1600 and 3200ISO PRINT quality


There's no doubt that the pictures look great so thanks for posting.

I'm curious though, are you considering this your main camera now or as a P&S? I can see using this as a P&S or maybe a backup camera that produces great quality, but the 4/3 system is doomed IMO. The sensor size is too small to go anywhere, and I think the direction, as many of us have known for a long time is "back to" FF. The first APS-C P&S is going to be released soon (providing much more real estate than the tiny Oly 4/3 chip) and would make me wary of investing much in the "system". Oly, Panasonic, etc. will be left behind unless they move in the FF direction of Canon, Nikon, and Sony will ultimately follow suit soon.

What are your thoughts on longevity and does knowing it's not going to last much longer worry you?


Dec 02, 2007 at 08:02 PM
Tariq Gibran
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jamesf99 wrote:
Tariq Gibran wrote:
pg turn 2


Curious. What is this supposed to mean?


There is an ongoing issue with the Forum where the last post on a page or the first post on a page requires 1, 2 or even three posts to cause the initial post to show up. I just got lucky and happen to draw the short straw this time.:)


Dec 02, 2007 at 09:34 PM
jamesf99
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Tariq Gibran wrote:
jamesf99 wrote:
Tariq Gibran wrote:
pg turn 2


Curious. What is this supposed to mean?


There is an ongoing issue with the Forum where the last post on a page or the first post on a page requires 1, 2 or even three posts to cause the initial post to show up. I just got lucky and happen to draw the short straw this time.:)



Ahhh, thank you! :)


Dec 02, 2007 at 11:35 PM
Clovermead
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jamesf99 wrote:
Robert Watcher wrote:
Got a chance to test shoot the new Olympus E-3 this evening. I mainly wanted to feel the camera in hand and play with the controls to see how intuative they are. Also, 2 concerns for my style of shooting are Image Stabilization and decent 1600 and 3200ISO PRINT quality


There's no doubt that the pictures look great so thanks for posting.

I'm curious though, are you considering this your main camera now or as a P&S? I can see using this as a P&S or maybe a backup camera that produces great quality, but the 4/3 system is doomed IMO. The sensor size is too small to go anywhere, and I think the direction, as many of us have known for a long time is "back to" FF. The first APS-C P&S is going to be released soon (providing much more real estate than the tiny Oly 4/3 chip) and would make me wary of investing much in the "system". Oly, Panasonic, etc. will be left behind unless they move in the FF direction of Canon, Nikon, and Sony will ultimately follow suit soon.

What are your thoughts on longevity and does knowing it's not going to last much longer worry you?


Interesting points, but the conclusions you reach from them do not necessarily follow.


Dec 03, 2007 at 12:17 AM
Rob Riley
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jamesf99 wrote:
I'm curious though, are you considering this your main camera now or as a P&S? I can see using this as a P&S or maybe a backup camera that produces great quality, but the 4/3 system is doomed IMO. The sensor size is too small to go anywhere, and I think the direction, as many of us have known for a long time is "back to" FF. The first APS-C P&S is going to be released soon (providing much more real estate than the tiny Oly 4/3 chip) and would make me wary of investing much in the "system". Oly, Panasonic, etc. will be left behind unless they move in the FF direction of Canon, Nikon, and Sony will ultimately follow suit soon.

What are your thoughts on longevity and does knowing it's not going to last much longer worry you?


lol doomed, this guff has been going on for years now....At 1.92x its really little different to APS C, more especially the Sigma (1.72x) and Canon (1.62x) variety, excepting its probably better able wide open. As to the future of FF135 you are more optimistic than me. As it stands FF135 is just 1% of dSLR sales to Canon and far from a raging success. According to Rob Galbraith Nikon are looking forward to 8+% of sales for D3, more likely it will fall on its ass among the variety of FF135 choices to come with a new 5D, the Sony, and Leica's R10 saturating an already tiny market.

More to the point, this year Olympus will have successfully displaced Sony and Pentax for #3 place in dSLR sales and will be having its strongest year ever.


Dec 03, 2007 at 12:30 AM
Robert Watcher
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does knowing it's not going to last much longer worry you?

NO :) :cool:


Dec 03, 2007 at 01:00 AM
Robert Watcher
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Kind of cool (for me) that my little informal review of the E-3 posted at http://rwoutsidethebox.com/?page_id=91 was picked up by the Photography Bay website and posted along with Olympus E-3 reviews by some of the other biggie review sites.

http://www.photographybay.com/2007/06/28/olympus-e-p1-leaked-info/


---


Dec 03, 2007 at 03:14 AM
Jorgen Udvang
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jamesf99 wrote:
There's no doubt that the pictures look great so thanks for posting.

I'm curious though, are you considering this your main camera now or as a P&S? I can see using this as a P&S or maybe a backup camera that produces great quality, but the 4/3 system is doomed IMO. The sensor size is too small to go anywhere, and I think the direction, as many of us have known for a long time is "back to" FF. The first APS-C P&S is going to be released soon (providing much more real estate than the tiny Oly 4/3 chip) and would make me wary of investing much in the "system". Oly, Panasonic, etc. will be left behind unless they move in the FF direction of Canon, Nikon, and Sony will ultimately follow suit soon.

What are your thoughts on longevity and does knowing it's not going to last much longer worry you?


Your first sentence makes sense, but on that background, none of the rest do. If the pictures look good, does anything else matter?


Dec 04, 2007 at 05:17 AM
nikt
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Does anyone know how much a Canon 180-500mm f2.8 IS lens costs, or the size? I'm thinking about picking one up.

Yes Jorgen it matters. It doesn't say Nikon or Canon.

The E3 is a fantastic camera. And there are some very good lenses that you can get with it. Unfortunately, the super fasts like the 1.2's or 1.4's , aren't there.

Olympus/Panasonic/Sony/Pentax may introduce a 36mm chip, but it's not going to be their bread and butter. It's certainly not Nikons, and its certainly not Canons. They would be better off trying to find markets that will actually sell cameras.

Is Oly doomed, far from it. Do Olympus need to reinvent themselves. Yes they do somewhat. The E3 took far too long to come out. I think Oly would do well to release a 4/3rds compact point-and-shot. They know how to make great cameras in this particular market, evidenced by the excellent C-8080 and C-7070.



Dec 04, 2007 at 06:41 AM
Jorgen Udvang
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A 4/3 7070? With IS? And weather sealing? Yes, please. Thank you very much :)

Dec 04, 2007 at 11:08 AM
Jorgen Udvang
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nikt wrote:
The E3 is a fantastic camera. And there are some very good lenses that you can get with it. Unfortunately, the super fasts like the 1.2's or 1.4's , aren't there.


Of course I agree, and this is one of the reasons why I keep my Nikon gear. But the better Olympus gets, the less use the Nikkors will see, particularly the zooms. So much so that I wonder if an M8 with a couple of fast primes would be a better second system.


Dec 04, 2007 at 11:13 AM
Airborne_
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nikt wrote:
Does anyone know how much a Canon 180-500mm f2.8 IS lens costs, or the size? I'm thinking about picking one up.


Dec 04, 2007 at 08:31 PM
ICQ
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jamesf99 wrote:
There's no doubt that the pictures look great so thanks for posting.

I'm curious though, are you considering this your main camera now or as a P&S? I can see using this as a P&S or maybe a backup camera that produces great quality, but the 4/3 system is doomed IMO. The sensor size is too small to go anywhere, and I think the direction, as many of us have known for a long time is "back to" FF. The first APS-C P&S is going to be released soon (providing much more real estate than the tiny Oly 4/3 chip) and would make me wary of investing much in the "system". Oly, Panasonic, etc. will be left behind unless they move in the FF direction of Canon, Nikon, and Sony will ultimately follow suit soon.

What are your thoughts on longevity and does knowing it's not going to last much longer worry you?


The E-3 isn't much smaller than the 5D, so it's not like it's something to be carried when you don't want to haul the heavy gear.

How can you say the "sensor is too small to go anywhere"? You said yourself the pictures look great. That's still the whole point of a camera, isn't it? Or are 100% crops the new product we're after?

Back only a few years ago, you could have similarly have said that APS-C is a dead end, because the 10D was just as noisy as the 1Ds, and had much lower resolution. The 10D was obviously state-of-the-art in terms of image quality (noise, DR, etc). Given this was the best Canon could do, APS-C obviously wouldn't go anywhere; we'd all be using FF sensors in a few years because they're so much better, and there would be a heap of APS-C lenses on eBay for $20. Only that didn't happen.

Four Thirds isn't much smaller than APS-C. APS-C is much smaller than FF. Here's an exercise that might be illuminating for anyone who thinks FT is much smaller than APS-C: get a ruler and draw a line 35.8mm long, a line 22.2mm long, and a line 17.3mm long. The first line is the width of a 5D sensor. The second line is the 40D. The third line is the E-410/E-510/E-3. The scale of the difference is rather surprising, isn't it? If one were to call Four Thirds "tiny", you'd certainly have to call APS-C tiny as well.

Also note that Four Thirds sensors are actually larger than the 40D's sensor vertically. The 4:3 ratio is better than 3:2 for printing 8x10's, worse for printing 4x6's.

Larger sensors are better. That's a given. You either get more pixels (print bigger) or lower noise. But consider that the E-3 can print a 243ppi 10x15", or a 122ppi 20x30". Compare that to a 259ppi 10x15" or 108ppi 20x30" from a 40D. Effectively the same. The 40D's advantage is, of course, lower noise. But if the E-3 has enough resolution and low enough noise for your uses (and don't forget you get IS with every lens), what's the big deal?

If the advocates of various cameras systems spent half the time printing images as they did staring at 100% crops, camera forums would be a much quieter place.

Personally, I'm happy to shoot both. I've got a full Canon system with a 5D and 350D, an E-410 with a couple tiny zooms, and a few OM primes that I can mount on either. I bring the 5D when I need its resolution, noise performance or low-light AF tracking (not often) and bring the E-410 when I don't. In a few years when I imagine even the lowest-end bodies are capable of making decent ISO12800 prints I doubt I'll need a "big" body at all. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if someday I throw all my DSLR gear away for a P&S that beats my 5D in every area.


Dec 04, 2007 at 08:40 PM
cogitech
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Thanks Chris. You just pushed me one notch closer to pulling the trigger on an E-410. I just hope I don't regret having to sell my 20D. Thoughts?

Dec 04, 2007 at 09:00 PM
CKrueger
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nikt wrote:
Does anyone know how much a Canon 180-500mm f2.8 IS lens costs, or the size? I'm thinking about picking one up.


Sigma has your 180-500/2.8 (120-300) for your APS-C body, It doesn't have IS, but for the difference in cost you could hire someone to carry a tripod for you.


Dec 04, 2007 at 09:49 PM
CKrueger
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cogitech wrote:
Thanks Chris. You just pushed me one notch closer to pulling the trigger on an E-410. I just hope I don't regret having to sell my 20D. Thoughts?


Sorry Paul, I've been meaning to post a mini-review of my new E-410 since I got it a few weeks ago, especially since I know you're considering the exact same setup. I was waiting until I got my Katz Eye split-prism focus screen, as the viewfinder is small enough to make focusing difficult with my slower primes, and I didn't have enough eye relief to be comfortable using the eyepiece magnifier. I just got the focus screen last night, and haven't had any sunlight to shoot yet. (No, really! It's 4:00PM and I just metered to EV6 in hazy, snowy Wisconsin!)

The camera itself has a bunch of big positives, and some big negatives as well. Briefly:

+ It's tiny! Holy crap it's small! The other day I fit the E-410, 14-42, 40-150, and OM50/1.8 in this: http://www.thinktankphoto.com/ttp_product_ChmpCg.php
+ It's light enough to wear on the neck, at least with small lenses. Much like a Canon S2IS or G9.
+ The kit lenses are absolutely awesome. Seriously. Buy them both in the kit if you have any need for the focal lengths they cover.
+ Live view is useful. The magnified view makes tripod shooting an absolute dream.
+ It takes almost any lens you can think of. PK is fine, and FD even fits if you do some lens surgery.
+ It has a spot meter. I guess this impresses me cause Canon's compact bodies are so stripped down.
+ I had a piece of dust on it when I bought it, but after cleaning with a bulb I have had no more dust. Time will tell....
+ Did I mention it's TINY?
- Dynamic range isn't as good as my 5D. Still usable, but I have to be more careful not to clip highlights.
- The viewfinder is small and not very bright. I'd put it slightly behind the 350D again. The magnifier helps this but gives tunnel vision. The Katz Eye screen makes it noticeably brighter, but it's still not the panacea the 5D is. Especially since the focus screen kills the spot meter for slow lenses.
- No "old-style" LCD panel means the rear display is on when you want shooting info. And it's really bright in your "viewfinder eye" when you press the camera to your face.
- ISO noise is mediocre. I'd say it's a bit worse than my 350D (or your 20D). I try to avoid ISO1600 if possible.
- No wide/fast primes. This is killing me! I want a 14/2, 17/2, and 25/1.8 in the traditional compact OM style. The closest thing is a Leica 25/1.4, and that's big enough to send me running to my 350D+35/2.

The jury is still out for me on whether I will use the camera as a walkaround with my 21/3.5 and 28/3.5, purely because of the viewfinder. I think the focus screen will make it usable, but I haven't had a chance to verify that. But even if not, I found serendipity in these wonderful little kit lenses.

I imagine you'd miss your 20D as a useful backup to your 5D. The E-410 is a different beast entirely. The results just aren't quite as good as with my 5D (which might be partly my inexperience with the system). But I bought it to be a go-anywhere DSLR, and sure enough it's here at work with me today, while my 5D sits at home in my closet with its 100-400.


Dec 04, 2007 at 10:53 PM
cogitech
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Wow. I pulled the trigger as you were typing that, I am sure.

I found one on the bay "brand new in box" with the kit lens, for $469. I couldn't help myself.

We'll see :)


Dec 04, 2007 at 11:09 PM
CKrueger
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With the Canadian dollar as it is, you should have swiped one from B&H with the kit lenses. Probably would have cost you $18 CAD. :)

Have fun! Don't forget to grab an OM adapter, too. Four Thirds is even more adaptable than EF. Someone even managed to hack up an FD lens and and mount it to his FT body. If I had the skills to do that I'd have a Canon FD 300/2.8 on order right now. :)


Dec 05, 2007 at 04:30 AM
cogitech
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CKrueger wrote:
With the Canadian dollar as it is, you should have swiped one from B&H with the kit lenses. Probably would have cost you $18 CAD. :)

Have fun! Don't forget to grab an OM adapter, too. Four Thirds is even more adaptable than EF. Someone even managed to hack up an FD lens and and mount it to his FT body. If I had the skills to do that I'd have a Canon FD 300/2.8 on order right now. :)


The dollar just took a pretty big tumble, so I'm glad I jumped on it and made payment before it got too bad.

Yes, one of the major attractions for me is the ability to use nearly all my lenses on both systems. The 2x crop makes this even more interesting to me! I've decided to give the E-410 one month to impress me before I let the 20D go. Or, maybe I'll liquidate a few lenses and/or accessories instead.

Cheers!



Dec 05, 2007 at 01:52 PM
cogitech
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TP

Dec 05, 2007 at 01:52 PM

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