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Eldor Offline Image Upload: On Registered: Sep 13, 2002 Total Posts: 2661 Country: Canada Help with Alien Bee order? Hi Folks, I'm about to place an order for some Alien Bee stuff and since I'm in Canada and have to deal with import hassles with every shipment, I'd like to get pretty much all the stuff I'm going to need in one shot, and then grow into it. I could use some advice on what to order and if I'm spending my money most efficiently. The kind of shooting I'm going to do is mostly portrait, with some artistic figure type stuff thrown in (as the opportunity arises). Temporary studio setup. I'm not sure what will be needed in the way of connecting to the camera... so could use some advice there for sure... wired remote perhaps? Otherwise does everything connect through a sync cord? Will I need one cord from the camera to the light? Another cord from one light to another? Or does one flash firing trigger the other one? Other than that, here's what I'm thinking of ordering: 2 x B800 lights 1 x 13' Extreme Duty stand (have other stands already) 1 x Boom Arm 2 x single light carrying bags 1 x Giant Softbox 1 x Set of four honeycomb grids 1 x Barn doors Any advice? Thanks for any comments/suggestions. (I already have some PhotoFlex reflectors and diffusers, light stands and three 550EX flash units and an ST-E2.) Tim Aug 20, 2003 at 03:19 PM

bluebomberx Offline Image Upload: Off Registered: Jan 25, 2003 Total Posts: 716 Country: United States Re: Help with Alien Bee order? Tim, be aware that they Giant Softbox is GIANT if you going to be in a small room. It's an awesome softbox, but I had to sell it because the room I have available to me is too small. I ended up buying a Photoflex Q39 24"x36" Litedome. The reflectors you have will be handy indeed. Anymore, I just like to work with one light when possible. The Bees will come with PC cords, but if you are going to be in a controlled environment, you can fire one with the PC cord and the other via built-in optical slave. Hope this helps. Aug 20, 2003 at 03:42 PM

Eldor Offline Image Upload: On Registered: Sep 13, 2002 Total Posts: 2661 Country: Canada Re: Help with Alien Bee order? Richie, thanks for your comments. Yes your reply helps! I was thinking that the Giant Softbox would be needed for full-length shots. Is a smaller one adequate? I was also thinking that if I needed smaller, I'd use a B800 through one of my PhotoFlex 42" diffussers (meaning not really needing a smaller softbox). Since I've never used a softbox, I guess my inexperience with them is coming through. Is there a reason (price, quality, features) why the PhotoFlex Q39 would be a better choice for me than the Large Softbox (going down from Giant) from Alien Bee? The advantage for me is one-stop shopping for that lighting stuff. Thanks also for clarifying what I need (and don't need) regarding sync cables. How useful is the wired remote? Especially when used with only one or two B800's? Best... Tim Aug 20, 2003 at 05:35 PM

bluebomberx Offline Image Upload: Off Registered: Jan 25, 2003 Total Posts: 716 Country: United States Re: Help with Alien Bee order? The Q39 series from Photoflex is the cheapest line of softboxes they manufacture. I think they build/break down quicker (for me). They do cost a little more than the ones from AB. The only experience I have with their softboxes is the giant softbox. I think it will help you out more doing full lengths in the studio. I just didn't have the space for it, so I limit my stuff to waist up or head shots in the studio. Despite the fact I mentioned I like working with one light, here are three examples of the B800s and the Photoflex 24"x36" light dome. The hair light was a Photoflex 12"x16" light dome. The main light was within 3' on all images. To answer your question about the remote, I can see it useful if you have the lights up higher than you can reach them to make changes. I never bought one because I was worried that someone would trip on the extra cables and destroy my investment. Pocket Wizards would be nice, but I can't afford them ;) Three lights - Main, hair light, and background Two lights and gold reflector One light Aug 20, 2003 at 06:08 PM

bluebomberx Offline Image Upload: Off Registered: Jan 25, 2003 Total Posts: 716 Country: United States Re: Help with Alien Bee order? By the way, I have no problems with the softboxes from AB other than the assembly is backwards from other softboxes. They are a nice alternative for the price. I was just warning you about the large size of the giant softbox - It's one thing to think about 60" height and it's another thing to actually see how tall that 60" when you see it in person. Just make sure you have the space for it :D Aug 20, 2003 at 06:12 PM

Greg Offline Image Upload: Off Registered: Jan 10, 2002 Total Posts: 646 Country: United States Re: Help with Alien Bee order? I use the AB large soft box and it is not large enough to do full length shots unless you move it away from the subject but then you lose the soft light. The wired remote is great when you have your lights up or on the boom but other than that I don’t use mine. In the studio you can use your 550EX on manual and 1/64 power to trigger the bees. I never use the sync cord unless I am out side. I agree with Richie that shooting with one light is often very satisfying but at some point you will want a third or even forth light. The extra lights are very useful when shooting with a hot white background. I have the Vagabond battery pack and love it. My ST-E2 and extra EX flashes are collecting dust. I would rather lug my AB kit to do location shoots than put up with misfires and lack of control with the Canon lights. Regards, Greg Aug 20, 2003 at 06:55 PM

Eldor Offline Image Upload: On Registered: Sep 13, 2002 Total Posts: 2661 Country: Canada Re: Help with Alien Bee order? Great shots, Richie! On your second one, you said two lights and a reflector... I'm guessing one light was to the model's right and the reflector to her left, but what was the second light used for? And no reflector at all for the third shot? I will check out that PhotoFlex light dome before placing my Alien Bees order. What caught my attention was your saying the AB stuff was slower to dis/assemble and that it was somehow different from other equipment. Could you elaborate a bit on that difference? I mean, is there pretty much one world standard that everyone (except AB) follows? I've never even seen a soft box close up (yet). I'm going to pass on the remote (for now). Any words about the barn doors and the set of 4 grids? Do you use any of that stuff? Thanks very much for your help. Tim Aug 20, 2003 at 09:01 PM

Eldor Offline Image Upload: On Registered: Sep 13, 2002 Total Posts: 2661 Country: Canada Re: Help with Alien Bee order? Greg wrote: I use the AB large soft box and it is not large enough to do full length shots unless you move it away from the subject but then you lose the soft light. The wired remote is great when you have your lights up or on the boom but other than that I don’t use mine. In the studio you can use your 550EX on manual and 1/64 power to trigger the bees. I never use the sync cord unless I am out side. I agree with Richie that shooting with one light is often very satisfying but at some point you will want a third or even forth light. The extra lights are very useful when shooting with a hot white background. I have the Vagabond battery pack and love it. My ST-E2 and extra EX flashes are collecting dust. I would rather lug my AB kit to do location shoots than put up with misfires and lack of control with the Canon lights. Regards, Greg Hi Greg, Thanks for jumping in. Based on your comments I think I will go with my original idea of the Giant soft box and perhaps a smaller one for location and/or portrait shots. I'm concerned about one thing Richie said though, and that was about the AB assembly/disassembly being perhaps slower than with other brands and in some way "different" from others. I'm wondering if that would be much of a problem in my case. So I'll look into it a bit further before ordering. And I'm going to pass on the remote for now. Any thoughts on the barn doors and honeycomb grids? Thanks again... Tim Aug 20, 2003 at 09:08 PM

ducracer Offline Image Upload: Off Registered: Jul 31, 2003 Total Posts: 20 Country: United States Re: Help with Alien Bee order? Tim, I'm glad your asking all these questions. I went to Alien Bees earlier today and looked at their demo setup. And I don't have a clue what to buy as I'm a newbie myself. But I will say this I want one of everything :) Aug 20, 2003 at 09:10 PM

Greg Offline Image Upload: Off Registered: Jan 10, 2002 Total Posts: 646 Country: United States Re: Help with Alien Bee order? Hi Tim, The grids are very useful. This shot was done with three lights. One high and to camera left with a 30-degree grid to illuminate the hands. One low and to camera left with a 20-degree grid to illuminate the egg as it dropped. The other light was high to camera right 10-degree grid and with a home made snoot to illuminate just the inside of the skillet. This shot was done with a single light to camera left with a yellow gel and a 20-degree grid. I don’t have the AB barn doors but I wish did. Regards, Greg Aug 20, 2003 at 09:48 PM

bluebomberx Offline Image Upload: Off Registered: Jan 25, 2003 Total Posts: 716 Country: United States Re: Help with Alien Bee order? Tim, the AB softboxes build from the ground up and Photoflex softboxes take less assembly. With the AB softbox, you lay the face on the ground. There are pockets in each corner to hold the rods; you connect opposite corners to the speedring. When you have finished, you have to put the back cover on the frame and make sure you velcro the face to the cover. In other words, you build the frame and then cover it. You have to remove the face to disassemble it. With the Photoflex units, the cover has pockets for the rods built into it. You still install the rods into the speedring by opposite corners. Once you have it mounted on your light, you can then put the face on it. When you break it down, you don't have to remove the face and it makes setup quicker for the next time. A picture is worth a thousand words and unfortunately, I don't have one to illustrate what I am saying. I hope someone else does. I don't have any experience with barn doors or grid spots. I would like to have a set of grid spots for backgrounds. When I need to concentrate light into a beam, I look no further than the grocery store (see images below). Pringles aren't just for white balance any more :D Aug 21, 2003 at 03:29 PM

Eldor Offline Image Upload: On Registered: Sep 13, 2002 Total Posts: 2661 Country: Canada Re: Help with Alien Bee order? ducracer wrote: Tim, I'm glad your asking all these questions. I went to Alien Bees earlier today and looked at their demo setup. And I don't have a clue what to buy as I'm a newbie myself. But I will say this I want one of everything :) I'm glad I'm asking those questions too! :D Already changed what I'm going to order thanks to the great folks and great advice here! Aug 21, 2003 at 04:29 PM

Eldor Offline Image Upload: On Registered: Sep 13, 2002 Total Posts: 2661 Country: Canada Re: Help with Alien Bee order? Greg, WOW! That egg shot is amazing! Thanks for showing it, and extra thanks for telling us how you lit it. This is great! I'm going for the set of 4 grids for sure, and I'm 99% sold on the barn doors as well. Tell me, if you were going to use barn doors, do you think you'd ever want/need to use them in conjunction with one of the grids? The way I understand it, I can use a grid or the barn doors, but not both at the same time unless I spend another $50 on some kind of frame device. If it's unlikely that I'd want to use both at the same time, I'd rather save the $50. Thanks again to you for your help. Tim Aug 21, 2003 at 04:33 PM

Eldor Offline Image Upload: On Registered: Sep 13, 2002 Total Posts: 2661 Country: Canada Re: Help with Alien Bee order? bluebomberx wrote: Tim, the AB softboxes build from the ground up and Photoflex softboxes take less assembly. With the AB softbox, you lay the face on the ground. There are pockets in each corner to hold the rods; you connect opposite corners to the speedring. When you have finished, you have to put the back cover on the frame and make sure you velcro the face to the cover. In other words, you build the frame and then cover it. You have to remove the face to disassemble it. With the Photoflex units, the cover has pockets for the rods built into it. You still install the rods into the speedring by opposite corners. Once you have it mounted on your light, you can then put the face on it. When you break it down, you don't have to remove the face and it makes setup quicker for the next time. A picture is worth a thousand words and unfortunately, I don't have one to illustrate what I am saying. I hope someone else does. I don't have any experience with barn doors or grid spots. I would like to have a set of grid spots for backgrounds. When I need to concentrate light into a beam, I look no further than the grocery store (see images below). Pringles aren't just for white balance any more :D Thanks again Richie! Now I'm going to take a real close look at that PhotoFlex stuff. I gather a "speed ring" is going to be required and that I'll probably need a special one. Do I get that from Alien Bees or PhotoFlex (assuming I go with the PhotoFlex soft boxes)? That Pringles can on your flash is too funny. What exactly do you use it for? A hairlight? Your advice has already helped me with this order... I really appreciate it! Thanks. Tim Aug 21, 2003 at 04:39 PM

jmcfadden Online Image Upload: Off Registered: Oct 30, 2002 Total Posts: 27823 Country: United States Re: Help with Alien Bee order? Tim the pringles can is basically a "snoot" like a controlled beam of light, look closely at the cat images they were shot with a snoot, really easy and fun! J this is a cool thread I am interested in this stuff as well Aug 21, 2003 at 04:50 PM

bluebomberx Offline Image Upload: Off Registered: Jan 25, 2003 Total Posts: 716 Country: United States Re: Help with Alien Bee order? Tim, speedrings are light specific. You can buy the speedrings from AB and they will work with any softbox. John explained the Pringles can pretty well. It ensures that the flash will only illuminate one element of the image. I'm always trying to find a cheaper way to do things. If only we couldn't make L glass from a soda bottle! By the way, how do you like your ST-E2 and 550s? I'm considering the ST-E2 to get E-TTL with my single Sigma EF 500 DG Super. I was wanting to build a portable kit around them. Does the ST-E2 and one flash provide accurate exposures? Aug 21, 2003 at 05:15 PM

Eldor Offline Image Upload: On Registered: Sep 13, 2002 Total Posts: 2661 Country: Canada Re: Help with Alien Bee order? jmcfadden wrote: Tim the pringles can is basically a "snoot" like a controlled beam of light, look closely at the cat images they were shot with a snoot, really easy and fun! J this is a cool thread I am interested in this stuff as well Hi (John, is it?) Ok, I can see how the snoot worked with the cat shots, but it's not on my horizon to shoot cats (got an allergy)... Does such a tool have any use in people shots? Would you for instance use it as a hair light? Heck, I'm just going to have to "invest" in a little experimenting... too bad, as I've been working SO hard to stay off junk foods. :( The only downside of this great thread is that it's going to end up costing me money. Tim Aug 21, 2003 at 05:52 PM

Eldor Offline Image Upload: On Registered: Sep 13, 2002 Total Posts: 2661 Country: Canada Re: Help with Alien Bee order? bluebomberx wrote: Tim, speedrings are light specific. You can buy the speedrings from AB and they will work with any softbox. John explained the Pringles can pretty well. It ensures that the flash will only illuminate one element of the image. I'm always trying to find a cheaper way to do things. If only we couldn't make L glass from a soda bottle! By the way, how do you like your ST-E2 and 550s? I'm considering the ST-E2 to get E-TTL with my single Sigma EF 500 DG Super. I was wanting to build a portable kit around them. Does the ST-E2 and one flash provide accurate exposures? Richie, thanks for clarifying about the speedrings being light specific. Another mistake avoided! I'm real happy with the ST-E2 and 550's. E-TTL works very very nicely with one remote flash or several. I don't regret the ST-E2 purchase, but I do regret buying the two additional 550's. I just didn't know enough to realize how limiting such flashes are in terms of getting the effects you want. Especially (or particularly_ for a beginner with lighting. Having modeling lights would help greatly and perhaps once someone has enough lighting experience, using flash units without real modeling lights would be easier. So I'm not thinking (yet) of selling them. I like the size of the units and they're certainly going to be handy for outdoor macros. But I really need something with modeling lights to help me set things up properly. In my standard camera bag I only keep one flash and the ST-E2. And a Manfrotto Super Clamp. I find it's a pretty useful combination. I keep the other flashes in my lighting kit, together with a diffuser and reflectors. Take care... Tim Aug 21, 2003 at 06:06 PM

bluebomberx Offline Image Upload: Off Registered: Jan 25, 2003 Total Posts: 716 Country: United States Re: Help with Alien Bee order? TD27 wrote: Ok, I can see how the snoot worked with the cat shots, but it's not on my horizon to shoot cats (got an allergy)... Does such a tool have any use in people shots? Would you for instance use it as a hair light? Heck, I'm just going to have to "invest" in a little experimenting... too bad, as I've been working SO hard to stay off junk foods. :( The only downside of this great thread is that it's going to end up costing me money. Tim It can be used for that, yes. I imagine that the possibilities are endless. It's not a completely original idea, I modified an idea from John Lehmann's website. The Pringles can is much smaller than his "bazooka", but I'm sure it could accomplish spot lighting such as this. Aug 21, 2003 at 06:07 PM

Greg Offline Image Upload: Off Registered: Jan 10, 2002 Total Posts: 646 Country: United States Re: Help with Alien Bee order? Tell me, if you were going to use barn doors, do you think you'd ever want/need to use them in conjunction with one of the grids? The way I understand it, I can use a grid or the barn doors, but not both at the same time unless I spend another $50 on some kind of frame device. If it's unlikely that I'd want to use both at the same time, I'd rather save the $50. Hi Tim, I think that having the ability to use the grid and barn doors at the same time would be an asset. I don’t know how often you would use this combination, I guess that would depend on your shooting style. I don’t own the AB barn doors so I am speaking without experience. Regards, Greg Aug 21, 2003 at 07:59 PM

rprouty Offline Image Upload: On Registered: Aug 10, 2002 Total Posts: 3995 Country: United States Re: Help with Alien Bee order? If you have enough space the 800s are great but with limited space the 400s are more than adequate. The boom arm and weight are monsters. Rod Aug 23, 2003 at 02:15 PM

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