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Archive 2011 · Zeiss ZE/ZF.2 35mm f/1.4 (according to Roger Cicala/lens ...
  
 
trusty
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p.5 #1 · p.5 #1 · Zeiss ZE/ZF.2 35mm f/1.4 (according to Roger Cicala/lens rentals.com)


denoir wrote:
... Zero of my ten Zeiss primes or any of my Canon cameras and lenses have been in for repairs while my M9 and my 75 Summicron have been back to Solms twice now. ...


May be you should shoot more charts with your canon gear



Mar 14, 2011 at 02:35 PM
carstenw
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p.5 #2 · p.5 #2 · Zeiss ZE/ZF.2 35mm f/1.4 (according to Roger Cicala/lens rentals.com)


Maybe you should use it at all


Mar 14, 2011 at 03:18 PM
Anden
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p.5 #3 · p.5 #3 · Zeiss ZE/ZF.2 35mm f/1.4 (according to Roger Cicala/lens rentals.com)


Maybe you should donate the Zeiss lenses to me?


Mar 14, 2011 at 03:22 PM
denoir
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p.5 #4 · p.5 #4 · Zeiss ZE/ZF.2 35mm f/1.4 (according to Roger Cicala/lens rentals.com)


Hehe, many suggestions there.

It looks like my impeding Lofoten trip will be a Zeiss + Canon trip. The M9 which is in Germany for "express repair" (promised time, two days, actual time one week and counting) will probably not make it in time. Either way the Canon 135L is likely to be in my kit. If I don't get the M9 in time the Zeiss 35/1.4 will come along, otherwise I'll stick with the 35 Summilux.



Mar 14, 2011 at 03:25 PM
crazeazn
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p.5 #5 · p.5 #5 · Zeiss ZE/ZF.2 35mm f/1.4 (according to Roger Cicala/lens rentals.com)


carstenw wrote:
Really? I haven't come across this claim before. Do you have a reference?

My personal theory is that in ye olden days Zeiss had much tighter control over the manufacturing process, but today they are made by Cosina, which is not in the same caliber as Zeiss, or Leica for that matter. Thus I expect that the redesign was primarily to yield a design which is more robust in the face of lower tolerances, and that Zeiss strove to maintain the look of the old lens, with better coatings, not to make any particular "improvements", which could just as easily have
...Show more

How long has it been since Kyocera was manufacturing Contax Zeiss lenses prior to the new wave? 1983? I know all the Contax-N and vast majority of the MMs were Japan manufactured... I don't think it would be that different....



Mar 14, 2011 at 04:04 PM
carstenw
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p.5 #6 · p.5 #6 · Zeiss ZE/ZF.2 35mm f/1.4 (according to Roger Cicala/lens rentals.com)


Well, Cosina and the previous manufacturing plant won't be using the same tolerances, and Zeiss probably cannot influence Cosina's success formula too much. Anyway, it is just a theory. I doubt it could be proven either way, but I think it makes more sense than thinking that Zeiss wanted to correct the lens better than the old one, and failed. The new lens must be twice the volume, at least, and there is *some* reason for that.


Mar 14, 2011 at 04:18 PM
denoir
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p.5 #7 · p.5 #7 · Zeiss ZE/ZF.2 35mm f/1.4 (according to Roger Cicala/lens rentals.com)


It could be simply the combination of a large aperture and excellent performance stopped down. Usually it's either or. There are exceptions of course, the 35 Summilux ASPH for instance that is actually really good stopped down.

Another theory would be consistent performance wide open across the frame. It's really rare for fast lenses. The above mentioned 35 Lux does not have it for instance.

Who knows?



Mar 14, 2011 at 04:24 PM
carstenw
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p.5 #8 · p.5 #8 · Zeiss ZE/ZF.2 35mm f/1.4 (according to Roger Cicala/lens rentals.com)


Once someone here has compared old and new Distagon in more detail, we may be able to reject at least some of the theories.


Mar 14, 2011 at 04:30 PM
philber
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p.5 #9 · p.5 #9 · Zeiss ZE/ZF.2 35mm f/1.4 (according to Roger Cicala/lens rentals.com)


The Canon forum is full of people reporting "soft copies" or "bad copies" of their lenses. The Zeiss thread is not. That must be saying something for Zeiss/cosina QC, unless you hold that Zeiss users are a lot more persmissive/less demanding than Canon users.
On the size front, I thought that one could no longer use some of the metal-laden glass types that were used a few decades ago, and that this accounted for optical redesigns, and possibily weight/size increases. Is that a myth?



Mar 14, 2011 at 04:32 PM
trusty
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p.5 #10 · p.5 #10 · Zeiss ZE/ZF.2 35mm f/1.4 (according to Roger Cicala/lens rentals.com)


..A kind of very expensive low-pass filter for central zone

Who knows ?

Maybe Lloyd at now. He likes so much Zeiss as We that maybe he's now a little embarassed to publish the full tests of the new king baby of the firm.
I'm kidding.



Mar 14, 2011 at 04:35 PM
 

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trusty
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p.5 #11 · p.5 #11 · Zeiss ZE/ZF.2 35mm f/1.4 (according to Roger Cicala/lens rentals.com)


philber wrote:
The Canon forum is full of people reporting "soft copies" or "bad copies" of their lenses. The Zeiss thread is not. ...


Perhaps it's also intellectually more difficult to recognize we bought a dud mercedes than a dud VW ? LC seems to say that Zeiss is more consistent however.



Mar 14, 2011 at 04:43 PM
ulrikft2
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p.5 #12 · p.5 #12 · Zeiss ZE/ZF.2 35mm f/1.4 (according to Roger Cicala/lens rentals.com)


philber wrote:
The Canon forum is full of people reporting "soft copies" or "bad copies" of their lenses. The Zeiss thread is not. That must be saying something for Zeiss/cosina QC, unless you hold that Zeiss users are a lot more persmissive/less demanding than Canon users.
On the size front, I thought that one could no longer use some of the metal-laden glass types that were used a few decades ago, and that this accounted for optical redesigns, and possibily weight/size increases. Is that a myth?


How many of those "soft" or "bad" copies are related to AF though?

That might be a source for many errors I suspect.



Mar 14, 2011 at 05:08 PM
denoir
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p.5 #13 · p.5 #13 · Zeiss ZE/ZF.2 35mm f/1.4 (according to Roger Cicala/lens rentals.com)


philber wrote:
The Canon forum is full of people reporting "soft copies" or "bad copies" of their lenses. The Zeiss thread is not. That must be saying something for Zeiss/cosina QC, unless you hold that Zeiss users are a lot more persmissive/less demanding than Canon users.
On the size front, I thought that one could no longer use some of the metal-laden glass types that were used a few decades ago, and that this accounted for optical redesigns, and possibily weight/size increases. Is that a myth?


A lot of problems with Canonikon lenses are AF related - i.e there's nothing wrong with the lens but with the combination of the AF calibration and the variations in sensor distance on the camera.

Also you have to consider that Canon sells perhaps 1000 times more lenses than Zeiss does. So even if the percentage of problematic lenses is small the number can be large.

As for Zeiss/Cosina QC, the only Zeiss lens that I have heard of being consistently problematic is the 21 Distagon. De-centered copies are fairly common. This is probably due to the exceptionally complex design of the lens (18 elements).



Mar 14, 2011 at 05:12 PM
alundeb
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p.5 #14 · p.5 #14 · Zeiss ZE/ZF.2 35mm f/1.4 (according to Roger Cicala/lens rentals.com)


denoir wrote:
It could be simply the combination of a large aperture and excellent performance stopped down.

Another theory would be consistent performance wide open across the frame.



This, plus CA control.
The bottom right sample from LC with the bicycle, shows radically less CA than the f/2 Distagon and a little less than the Canon.



Mar 14, 2011 at 05:22 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.5 #15 · p.5 #15 · Zeiss ZE/ZF.2 35mm f/1.4 (according to Roger Cicala/lens rentals.com)


I have to say that among all the different brands I have changed during the years, the Contax is the only one that had perfect record. I never got any defective lens and I have owned over a two dozens of them. The camera bodies were a different story though.

My worst experiences were with Sigma, closely followed by Canon, but that was several years ago. I trust both companies got their act together in what concerns QC.



Mar 14, 2011 at 05:23 PM
OneAnt
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p.5 #16 · p.5 #16 · Zeiss ZE/ZF.2 35mm f/1.4 (according to Roger Cicala/lens rentals.com)


carstenw wrote:
My personal theory is that in ye olden days Zeiss had much tighter control over the manufacturing process, but today they are made by Cosina, which is not in the same caliber as Zeiss, or Leica for that matter. Thus I expect that the redesign was primarily to yield a design which is more robust in the face of lower tolerances, and that Zeiss strove to maintain the look of the old lens, with better coatings, not to make any particular "improvements", which could just as easily have destroyed what makes this lens so loved.


This reflects nothing of the reality of manufacturing. The reference to Cosina in relation to Zeiss and Leica is also lacking and sounds more of football.

The reference to Leica's 10 times tighter tolerances ...no thats fluff. The tolerances are related to the advances in design, materials, skills and processes and they are not the property of Leica, again you are thinking football.

Ye olden days had a romance thats all, romance is not built into a product that is the fancy of the owner. I recall the sadness amongst Leica owners when the sewing machined shutters were no longer made by little old ladies named Gran. I think its best that we stick to what we know best ...the weather.

(says Manufacturing Engineer that predicts rain tomorrow)



Edited on Mar 14, 2011 at 10:03 PM · View previous versions



Mar 14, 2011 at 09:56 PM
carstenw
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p.5 #17 · p.5 #17 · Zeiss ZE/ZF.2 35mm f/1.4 (according to Roger Cicala/lens rentals.com)


OneAnt wrote:
This reflects nothing of the reality of manufacturing.


So, pray tell, what is the reality of manufacturing?



Mar 14, 2011 at 10:01 PM
OneAnt
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p.5 #18 · p.5 #18 · Zeiss ZE/ZF.2 35mm f/1.4 (according to Roger Cicala/lens rentals.com)


carstenw wrote:
So, pray tell, what is the reality of manufacturing?


$'s



Mar 14, 2011 at 10:04 PM
trdonja
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p.5 #19 · p.5 #19 · Zeiss ZE/ZF.2 35mm f/1.4 (according to Roger Cicala/lens rentals.com)


trdonja wrote:
I question the decision made by Zeiss, because it does not make sense. I asked Zeiss about it...


As always, Zeiss replied very quickly and the explanation was of very good quality. To summarize a bit longer email the main points are:
- they send their test lenses only to reputable testers and photographers
- what Zeiss primarily gets from this is valuable feedback, both positive and negative.
- they never send the lenses to those that don't explicitly ask for them; they are careful not to favor those who give only positive reviews, they are equally interested in criticisms by reputable photographers.
- Lloyd Chambers is amongst first who express interest in testing samples and because he is on the list of reputable testers, he gets the sample. The reason why he is first out with the test is, because he is faster than others, not because Zeiss favors him.
- There will be of course other reviews in the near future, also free.

I have to say that I am always surprised by their customer support. I wonder when (if at all) would Canon reply to my question, especially because my question has very little to do with actual product (dis)satisfaction. They could have just said "That's none of your business."



Mar 14, 2011 at 10:24 PM
carstenw
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p.5 #20 · p.5 #20 · Zeiss ZE/ZF.2 35mm f/1.4 (according to Roger Cicala/lens rentals.com)


OneAnt wrote:
$'s


That doesn't really answer anything at all. Ah well, it is just evening foruming.



Mar 14, 2011 at 10:35 PM
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