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Archive 2011 · which lens has the most 3D POP?
  
 
Tariq Gibran
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


carstenw wrote:
Hmm, well, interesting post, but I disagree with several items. First of all, and this is a minor semantic quibble, the two types you list aren't lens 3D types, but rather characteristics of lenses which you propose can produce 3D images. Minor, but important.

Secondly, I disagree with your characterization of Leicas as falling off towards the corners, Modern Leicas are some of the most solid performers in this regard. If you want to restrict this characterization to older Leicas, then I would agree somewhat. I also disagree with Zeiss lenses having high sharpness across the frame. This depends very much
...Show more

I agree with pretty much all of your points - and we all know how subjective the idea of "3D" rendering is - so here is a test shot from my v2 Summicron R showing what I find to exhibit some "3Dness". The only thing I did to this shot was to slightly push the black level up.

http://www.gibranstudio.com/l1.jpg

100% crop 1 from above:

http://www.gibranstudio.com/lcrop1.jpg

100% crop 2 from above:

http://www.gibranstudio.com/lcrop2.jpg



Apr 18, 2011 at 12:17 PM
Anden
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


Interesting Tariq, I find these very flat. And you claim them to be 3D. We need a definition of 3D.


Apr 18, 2011 at 12:29 PM
rsrsrs
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


did anybod asked leica or zeiss how they do define 3D?
or has a link?
maybe interesting.

otherwise i will send them a mail and ask.

gruss
r



Apr 18, 2011 at 12:40 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


Anden wrote:
Interesting Tariq, I find these very flat. And you claim them to be 3D. We need a definition of 3D.


I think it's somewhat subjective myself. We can all state specific qualities that each of us think contribute to the illusion of 3D in a 2D image, but in the end, I doubt there will be a consensus on all points - and with all example images (as evidenced by your reaction to this shot of mine.)



Apr 18, 2011 at 12:56 PM
AhamB
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


rsrsrs wrote:
did anybod asked leica or zeiss how they do define 3D?


I have not heard of any scientific definition for it. Perhaps Zeiss has even refrained from precisely defining it in order to keep their magic design recipe a secret.



Apr 18, 2011 at 01:15 PM
cputeq
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


Because we're all human and see things slightly differently, plus we have opinions, I think it'll be near-impossible to nail down exactly what is 3-D, and even if that were possible, objectively defining which photo meets or doesn't meet these criteria would be extremely difficult, if not impossible.

I think one can only go on impressions of particular photos, etc. To be honest, some of the examples shown in this thread (and others) weren't impressive to me, while others have been great - others of course would disagree with me (hence, the existence of forums!)



Apr 18, 2011 at 02:01 PM
rsrsrs
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


... and that makes it interesting ...


Apr 18, 2011 at 02:16 PM
jffielde
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


AhamB wrote:
I have not heard of any scientific definition for it.


Not true. It's been defined here:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1025674&highlight=devil



Apr 18, 2011 at 02:31 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


jffielde wrote:
Not true. It's been defined here:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1025674&highlight=devil


Very funny!



Apr 18, 2011 at 02:43 PM
keira007
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


Anden wrote:
Interesting Tariq, I find these very flat. And you claim them to be 3D. We need a definition of 3D.


+1
The photo is like a painting to my eyes. I don't feel any 3D.



Apr 18, 2011 at 02:55 PM
 

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wfrank
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


Are there any 3D qualities in this image? It's not a Zeiss.




Apr 18, 2011 at 08:55 PM
Uzay
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


Personally i don't see 3D in this pic wfrank, just like focus is in the closest subject i mean wheel, actually i see 3D better in the color photos, but it's just me.


Apr 18, 2011 at 09:12 PM
carstenw
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


wfrank wrote:
Are there any 3D qualities in this image? It's not a Zeiss.


I see depth and a remarkable amount of texture, but no real sense of shape or volume, so I don't personally see any 3D there. Do you?



Apr 18, 2011 at 09:33 PM
wfrank
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


Yeah, I guess I do. The isolation of the in-focus object is (in my mind) good and sharpness is excellent - even at the pixel level which of course is not visible in the web format. A fair amount of PP too, but only with the intention of keeping the lens'/original image characteristics into the small format presented here. But is it really 3D? Dont know, trying to find that out. Now I at least know the opinion of two respect-worthy posters... :-)

To take it one step further - thinking about the motif and the presumably juicy possibilities that steering wheel ought to possess when it comes to 3D. It really should be a fair object to "popize" - if my lens were to carry that capacity. Wouldnt it? Cant help thinking what gear would make it pop, if any. And if so, what would the difference be - compared to my humble fixed-4 attempt at 29mm.



Apr 19, 2011 at 06:18 PM
carstenw
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


Well, one question I can answer with absolute certainty: is it not 3D! It is a two-dimensional representation

Some of the oft-related clues are there, others not, but in the end it is a throw of the dice, and for me the necessary feeling about the shape and size and volume and feel and texture, and very importantly, the spatial relationship between foreground, middle and background, do not add up to something where I can squint a little and imagine that I am there. It looks like a (very good) photo of reality with very good texture, and two layers, foreground and background. I think I also miss the colour. I think colour is an important 3D clue, although I am not yet certain about that.

I should qualify this by saying that in all the time I have frequented this forum, I have seen maybe something like a dozen photos with convincing 3D. It is very hard to do, even for those who do it the best. I am not sure that I have made a single photo which has as strong 3D as brainiac's portrait, Martin's leather chair, or Luka's snail.



Apr 19, 2011 at 06:30 PM
Bifurcator
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


Yeah, I think that throws a lot of people off. I can understand the term "pop" but "3D" doesn't fit the description for me. I (and others?) just have too many other more appropriate associations for the term "3D". Oh well, what's in a term I guess... I suppose "3D" is better than calling it something else that doesn't fit either... like, "Goligafrigablop" or some shite. Still, I'll just go with "pop".





Apr 19, 2011 at 07:35 PM
wfrank
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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


Thanks again Carsten. Well, am I lucky or what? Luka and Martin strole around the city where I live. Both carry 3D gear. If at all possible to plan for 3D, then take this opportunity guys: go a few km east to Nacka and find Tollarens closed down paper-mill. Easily found through the link below. Grab your 3D gear and find the 3D steering wheel, which is found close the "H" in the southernmost "Hedenströms väg" below

http://maps.google.se/?ie=UTF8&ll=59.301294,18.237584&spn=0.004196,0.013239&t=h&z=17

I'll buy you a beer here if you do, I know you know where it is :-)






Apr 19, 2011 at 07:40 PM
carstenw
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p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


Haha, even I know where that is, having been to Stockholm in 2004 But I don't know the name. Is it Katarinahissen?


Apr 19, 2011 at 07:49 PM
denoir
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p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


carstenw wrote:
I should qualify this by saying that in all the time I have frequented this forum, I have seen maybe something like a dozen photos with convincing 3D. It is very hard to do, even for those who do it the best. I am not sure that I have made a single photo which has as strong 3D as brainiac's portrait, Martin's leather chair, or Luka's snail.


Hmmm, I'm guessing you mean this snail:

http://peltarion.eu/img/zeiss/ma74_big.jpg

Interesting as I don't see any 3D in the shot..

Typically for me to get a stronger sense of 3D I need some shape that implies perspective. Texture also usually helps.

Here's an example of what I mean. This was taken a couple of days ago:


http://peltarion.eu/img/m9/cron90-80.jpg


wfrank wrote:
If at all possible to plan for 3D, then take this opportunity guys: go a few km east to Nacka and find Tollarens closed down paper-mill. Easily found through the link below. Grab your 3D gear and find the 3D steering wheel, which is found close the "H" in the southernmost "Hedenströms väg" below

http://maps.google.se/?ie=UTF8&ll=59.301294,18.237584&spn=0.004196,0.013239&t=h&z=17


Closed down paper mill? Interesting. Are the fun parts easily accessible or does it require bolt cutters and do some breaking and entering?



Apr 19, 2011 at 08:56 PM
carstenw
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p.4 #20 · p.4 #20 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


denoir wrote:
Hmmm, I'm guessing you mean this snail:

http://peltarion.eu/img/zeiss/ma74_big.jpg

Interesting as I don't see any 3D in the shot..


The bumps on the neck are strongly 3D to me. I can just feel the way my finger would slip over them if I were to touch.

Typically for me to get a stronger sense of 3D I need some shape that implies perspective. Texture also usually helps.

This example has *some* 3D for me, but mostly just very strong perspective.



Apr 19, 2011 at 09:05 PM
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