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Archive 2010 · Review of the Profoto Batpac
  
 
PeterBerressem
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p.2 #1 · Review of the Profoto Batpac


Paul Buff wrote
As for battery operated pure sine inverters for studio lights, might I state that, to my knowledge, no such system existed prior to our original Vagabond 150 and Vagabond 300. This was followed by Tronix Explorer a year or two later and finally, many years later by Profoto with as close a copy to Vagabond 2 as one could imagine.


Let's see...Elektrona Flash Feeder was introduced 2001/2002. Dynalite XP1100..??



Sep 16, 2010 at 08:36 AM
Conner999
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p.2 #2 · Review of the Profoto Batpac


Here we go (yet) again with the same juvenile, tiresome and oh-so-predictable script and players - and a clear indication why a Profoto, Broncolor, Hensel, Bowens, etc., will never have an official presence here.

Edited on Sep 16, 2010 at 12:56 PM · View previous versions



Sep 16, 2010 at 11:15 AM
jonathanwilson
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p.2 #3 · Review of the Profoto Batpac


Conner999 wrote:
Here we go (yet) again with the same predictable, juvenile and tiresome script and players.



+1



Sep 16, 2010 at 11:33 AM
E-Vener
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p.2 #4 · Review of the Profoto Batpac


@ Stephen W.

"And David H. also ended up investing a sizable amount of money in Profoto gear after trying out a load of AlienBees. Each to his own in the end. There's no need for cheap pot shot remarks. He waited a long time for Einstein's to show up but in the end went with the expensive alternative.

Profoto has it's place among users, it just depends on what a photographer needs and is willing to spend."

What David ended up buying wasn't a monolight kit, it was a pack and head system. Asa working photographer I have both used and owned moonlights ( Broncolor, Profoto D1, Einstein, Elinchrom Style RX, Elinchrom EL1000, and Balcar Monobloc ) and pack and head systems ( Broncolor Grafit; Profoto Acute, Acute 2, Pro 5A and D4; Comet; Zeus; Dynalite; Norman P2000x; & Speedotron Blackline) The two are as different as the difference between blueberries and tomatoes. or as the Brits say: it's horses for courses.

A better comparison would be a head to head test of the D1 system with the Batpak vs and Einstein with a Vagabond.

I'm not taking brand or personality sides here I'm just pointing out there are differences between an all-in-one light (moonlight) and a modular system (pack and head).



Sep 16, 2010 at 01:17 PM
E-Vener
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p.2 #5 · Review of the Profoto Batpac


BrianO wrote:
Yeah, he's been here for three years.

Not as long as Alien Bees' "official presence," and no where near as many posts, but still quite a while.



And It would be nice if Elinchrom, Speedotron, Dynalite, etc. also had official presences here. In fact it would be very smart marketing on their part if they did.



Sep 16, 2010 at 01:19 PM
lafashionphoto
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p.2 #6 · Review of the Profoto Batpac


I want a bat mobile to go with bat back


Sep 16, 2010 at 02:12 PM
jeremy_clay
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p.2 #7 · Review of the Profoto Batpac


lol Kacey, do you just follow Paul Buff around to post negatively about anything he has to say?


Sep 16, 2010 at 02:18 PM
Photodan34
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p.2 #8 · Review of the Profoto Batpac


I love the fact that Paul monitors this forum, defends his very well made gear. I also think he comes with a reasonable level headedness (is that really a word). What David Hobby or any other photographer purchases doesn't really matter, the choice is made by need, experience, and costs. Reviews can be helpful, but what is more helpful, actual users who post and monitor this and other forums with their findings. Let's keep the banter fun light and most importantly informative.

Paul thanks for hanging around here. A manufacturers perspective is always helpful.

Dan



Sep 16, 2010 at 03:15 PM
hollow4
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p.2 #9 · Review of the Profoto Batpac


Thanks for the review DC

Edited on Sep 17, 2010 at 03:23 AM · View previous versions



Sep 16, 2010 at 04:25 PM
Paul Buff
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p.2 #10 · Review of the Profoto Batpac


E-Vener wrote:
And It would be nice if Elinchrom, Speedotron, Dynalite, etc. also had official presences here. In fact it would be very smart marketing on their part if they did.


Like my posts or hate them, you know where they are coming from. That's an "Official Presence". There are companies on here that disguise their presence by using ringers who fail to disclose the real agenda or source or relationship to the company or product they are promoting. I believe that is called a deceptive presence.



Sep 16, 2010 at 08:17 PM
 

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photomarvin
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p.2 #11 · Review of the Profoto Batpac


DC - Nice write up...thanks for sharing! Might need to add a BatPac to my kit soon!!


Sep 16, 2010 at 08:47 PM
Paul Buff
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p.2 #12 · Review of the Profoto Batpac


hollow4 wrote:
I dont post much, but I cant stand to read this stuff anymore . . .

And if i wanted a knock off of a profoto/broncolo/.... pack and head system i would buy PCB Zeus.

Your argument is hilarious because it's so flawed. Have you, or anyone reading this ever said who cares?? Did Paul invent the power inverter? Was he the first to put a power inverter on a battery and sell it? I will say he may have been the first to market one specifically for studio lights, but certainly was bit the first to assemble the combo and sell
...Show more

OK - you "can't stand to read this stuff anymore", then proceed to stoke the flames in order to create more stuff you can't stand to read. Curious.

Now to the specifics: I indeed, to my knowledge, was the first company to produce a commercially viable pure sine battery source for studio lights. I didn't say I invented pure sine inverters. Vagabond 150/300 was followed by Innovatronx and Dynalite.

No, I didn't invent the softbox, nor did Photflex. I believe this honor goes to George Larson.

I never argued that first equates to best.

I have never attempted direct competition or comparison to PW. I will say that our RR1 radio remote control was the first viable product that actually allowed radio control of power levels and modeling lamps, and that our 1986 WL Ultra was the first widely available monolight to include remote capability of these functions. Our relatively obscure Compuscene was the first (and probably only) remote control system with a computer interface and the ability to synchronize the power and firing of studio lights to video or audio via MIDI.

As for the monolight concept itself, I believe that honor goes to Bowens.

So yes, I am proud of my innovations and many contributions to the state of the art, only a few of which are mentioned here, and to the accessibility of pro quality lighting equipment to the many photographers who don't have the budget to pay ten of thousands of dollars for such equipment. If my willingness to defend my accomplishments and standing in the industry offend you, that's perfectly OK with me. By all means, buy whatever you like from someone else who you are not offended by.



Sep 16, 2010 at 08:50 PM
photomarvin
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p.2 #13 · Review of the Profoto Batpac


I'm curious how a review of a Profoto product has turned into something about Paul Buff...this makes no sense to me at all.


Sep 16, 2010 at 10:00 PM
James10013
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p.2 #14 · Review of the Profoto Batpac


E-Vener wrote:
And It would be nice if Elinchrom, Speedotron, Dynalite, etc. also had official presences here. In fact it would be very smart marketing on their part if they did.


I think it would be a disaster for most companies to have a presence here given the too often combative nature of participants and posts. As a lurker here for a while I remember when an issue came up with Hensel monolights and remotes a few years ago and a Hensel rep joined the forum and tried to address the issue, it got ugly quickly.

Most of the lighting companies have their own sites, and have adopted a social networking and blogging presence and feel that if people want to know what's up they can find out via searching Google. As far as the forums go, there is whole lot of free marketing with the release and use of products that doesn't require the manufacturers to become bare knuckle brawlers when the heat gets turned up.



Sep 17, 2010 at 12:03 AM
Paul Buff
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p.2 #15 · Review of the Profoto Batpac


photomarvin wrote:
I'm curious how a review of a Profoto product has turned into something about Paul Buff...this makes no sense to me at all.

Because I was the first to expose it as a bogus review . . . it went from there.



Sep 17, 2010 at 12:20 AM
E-Vener
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p.2 #16 · Review of the Profoto Batpac


think it would be a disaster for most companies to have a presence here given the too often combative nature of participants and posts.

I think you are wrong. Strong advocates, if they are intelligent, clear and knowledgable, always cut through the negative chatter fro the armchair quarterbacks. Might not be comfortable for them personally but it would be far from a "disaster".

As far as the forums go, there is whole lot of free marketing with the release and use of products that doesn't require the manufacturers to become bare knuckle brawlers when the heat gets turned up.

That's a personal choice on the part of the poster. It beats people posting with hidden commercial agendas who are constantly intent on pumping out detracting noise and starting flame wars.

Most of the lighting companies have their own sites, and have adopted a social networking and blogging presence and feel that if people want to know what's up they can find out via searching Google.

That's not all that customers want today: They also want free give and take dialogs where the company can get direct feedback from their customer base, that is rightly called advertising and propaganda -- both of which have a legitimate place whiff you are trying to get your message out there --and in their blogs, and social network marketing it is in their best interests in those forums to edit the content tightly.

The companies and people who succeed in their marketing efforts, and yes this includes Paul C. Buff, but also folks like Chuck Westfall of Canon, understand that their clients now expect virtual two way streets. The downside is that there will always be a very few crazies, pickpockets of intellectual property , and people who just want to start fights, found on those virtual streets, but here is the important thing: Most of the people who just read and don't participate in those kinds of exchanges are smart enough to figure out who those people are.

Paul Buff wrote:


Because I was the first to expose it as a bogus review . . . it went from there.



Paul's right on this one. It's an advertisement for Profoto. If the O.P. had used a more accurate title there wouldn't have been an issue.



Sep 17, 2010 at 12:38 AM
Robb Mann
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p.2 #17 · Review of the Profoto Batpac


...the link was clearly to a Profoto site. Did anyone really click on that expecting to find a critical review of the product?


Sep 17, 2010 at 01:01 AM
E-Vener
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p.2 #18 · Review of the Profoto Batpac


Then why is the post still called a review in the title? Saying his post was a review review is a a bit of a carny barker's ballyhoo, a trick to draw in the curious. I know opened it thinking it would be a review, and wasn't expecting an ad.


Sep 17, 2010 at 01:36 AM
Paul Buff
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p.2 #19 · Review of the Profoto Batpac


This was absolutely against forum rules. Had I done the same thing this thread would be 20 pages by now about how Paul Buff cheats and manipulates the system . . . there's plenty of that resulting even from my just calling out the original post.

This blatant rule breaking has caused me to less brazenly post links that I am officially not supposed to do. Bad behavior begets more bad behavior all around. Too bad.

I will post a complaint to my own post and suggest to moderators this whole thread be removed r locked for rules violations all around.



Sep 17, 2010 at 01:53 AM
James10013
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p.2 #20 · Review of the Profoto Batpac


E-Vener wrote:
I think you are wrong. Strong advocates, if they are intelligent, clear and knowledgable, always cut through the negative chatter fro the armchair quarterbacks. Might not be comfortable for them personally but it would be far from a "disaster".

That's a personal choice on the part of the poster. It beats people posting with hidden commercial agendas who are constantly intent on pumping out detracting noise and starting flame wars.

That's not all that customers want today: They also want free give and take dialogs where the company can get direct feedback from their customer base, that is rightly called
...Show more

We are just going to respectfully disagree on the participation point. Many of these photography concerns are corporations with structures that are not used to or comfortable with the kind of interactions web forums encourage or require. The buck stops with Paul Buff as far as his company is concerned; his ownership structure gives him far greater latitude than most employees working for other lighting companies have. Let's digress for a moment: Who should the face of Profoto be here? Should it be a person from the Mac Group which distributes the product here in the US? or from Profoto Sweden or Germany? Who should speaks for Elinchrom? Elinchrom Switzerland or Manfrotto Distribution USA?

Some companies prefer not to have an employee identified as the "face of" and/or may want to choose the vehicle they open themselves up on. Companies balance the upside and downside of involvement and the public relations upside and risks. For some the potential for getting into pissing matches and/or responding to "a few crazies" or people who have an agenda to discredit them or their products is just not worth it. We are also talking about companies with significant cultural differences, something which we here in the US tend to often overlook.

You mention Chuck Westfall, but to my knowledge, he/Canon pick and choose where they make themselves available very carefully. It is not everywhere or even necessarily on the most popular venues. Take a look at the Canon Forum here and tell me who in their right mind or what PR/marketing honcho from Canon would want to step into that. Marketing is about control and controlling the message in a way which is beneficial. Even viral marketing is based on controlling the message.

I think you may have misunderstood my point with respect to free marketing on the web. The point was that so many people post there experiences , likes, dislikes -whatever that some manufacturers may feel no need to participate because they are getting free publicity as a result of the post anyway, with plenty of people to argue on their behalf.

Last point and then I'm out of here:

Take a look at your own very cryptic response to the Op's "review."
"Glad to see Profoto has an official presence on the forum"
Perhaps I was having a bad day but I had to look at it twice to realize that you were being cynical. Could you have framed your comment a little differently? and would some of the discussion that followed have been avoided if you had pointed out that this looked more like an endorsement/advertisement or sponsored message upfront? Seems to me that you have aided in fanning some of the fire. If you want people to behave with civility and respectfully, shouldn't that behavior begin with you and me?




Sep 17, 2010 at 02:25 AM
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