p.2 #2 · 60D with 17-55 or 5DII with Tamron 28-75 ?
BrianO wrote:
Without looking at EXIF data, can you guess what body/lens combo made this image?
No, but I could have made that image with my 350d and my 50mm 1.8 I believe.
The thing I am after is getting short DOF on wider angles of view.
EDIT: Ah, now I looked at the EXIF (didnt want to cheat until after i answered )
So, the 35L on a 20d. That's a lens that would cost me as much as a used 5d2, so therefore my trouble...
p.2 #3 · 60D with 17-55 or 5DII with Tamron 28-75 ?
Omnicolor wrote:
No, but I could have made that image with my 350d and my 50mm 1.8 I believe. The thing I am after is getting short DOF on wider angles of view.
The point I was trying to make is that you can't always tell from a Web view what was used for what. So don't use just that to make a buying decision.
The snow and table shots you posted may have been made with a 5D, but the same DoF could probably have been achieved with a 1.6 crop body with a moderately wide lens of...oh...f/2.8 or so.
Like your 17-55.
For example, to get the same framing as those 5D+50mm shots, you could set your 17-55 at 31mm (50/1.6) and at f/4 at a 10-foot focus distance the DoF would be about 5 feet thick; 2 feet in front and 3 feet behind the focus point.
Even if you moved back to 15 feet, which is about right for the snow scene, the DoF would be about 4 feet in front of the man and 8 feet behind him; just about what I see in the sample.
p.2 #4 · 60D with 17-55 or 5DII with Tamron 28-75 ?
If the image gives hints about subject distance and size, you can guesstimate what lens / aperture needed to produce that depth of field, even from a web sized presentation.
The snow shot could probably not have been made with the 17-55 2.8. It will take a 35/1.4 or similar to do that. I can tell by looking at similar images in my archive. The cues are: Normal field of view (not tele compressed), the person does not even fill the image height in landscape orientation (far away), and the background is not too far away from him again.
BrianO: Your shot is more tricky, it does not give those hints, so I subscribe to your point as well.
p.2 #5 · 60D with 17-55 or 5DII with Tamron 28-75 ?
alundeb wrote:
...The snow shot could probably not have been made with the 17-55 2.8.
...The cues are: Normal field of view (not tele compressed), the person does not even fill the image height in landscape orientation (far away), and the background is not too far away from him again.
Well, I suggested that a 15-foot camera-to-subject distance might do for a shot like this, but let's look at this one more closely.
Let's say the man is 6 feet tall. If so, I'd guess there is about a 10-foot vertical space at his focus plane in landscape orientation.
To get a 10-foot vertical with a 31mm lens setting (the OP's 50mm lens divided by a 1.6 crop factor) would require a camera-to-subject distance of 20 feet.
At 20 feet a 31mm focal distance will give a DoF at f/2.8 of 10 feet behind the focus plane. (f/4 would have given about 18 feet.) If I look at the footprints in the snow behind the subject in the sample and count them back to where they start to go out of focus it looks to me like a 17-55 f/2.8 could have done the job.
But I've been wrong more than once in my life; I'm just estimating here.
p.2 #6 · 60D with 17-55 or 5DII with Tamron 28-75 ?
Brian, I think in this case all of the uncertainty goes into the "Circle of Confusion" and how large that is.
Here is an example that should match well in subject distance and field of view:
7D, with 35L at F/1.6. Still plenty of DoF, don't you think?
Sorry about the awful light, but as they parked there at the location I saw this composition as fun to do, and we shot it before we went into some shadows to do the nice stuff...
p.2 #7 · 60D with 17-55 or 5DII with Tamron 28-75 ?
my $0.02 is you should make sure to try them out before buying... just to get these bodies in your hands and snap some pics off. you'll likely learn something that will help you make the right decision.
p.2 #8 · 60D with 17-55 or 5DII with Tamron 28-75 ?
alundeb wrote:
...Here is an example that should match well in subject distance and field of view:
7D, with 35L at F/1.6. Still plenty of DoF, don't you think?
Well, the BG is blurred enough to give some seperation, but yeah, I'd like to see less DoF.
p.2 #9 · 60D with 17-55 or 5DII with Tamron 28-75 ?
The 60D has a nearly fatal flaw, NO MICROFOCUS ADJESTMENT! This means that, if your lens is not perfect, and few are, you will not be able to tweak the AF to adjust it.
I like the articulating screen too, but its no wheres near as important as micro AF Adjustment. And, on high MP sensors, you can always make a improvement to the AF.
I'd get a 50D over the 60D.
If you can swing it, the 5D MK II is the way to go. When I bought mine, I held on to my 17055mm lens because it was wonderful, but so is the 24-105mmL.
Finally, I cut my 10 year old link to the 1.6 crops when I sold the 17-55mm lens. No regrets, the 5D MK II is way ahead.
p.2 #10 · 60D with 17-55 or 5DII with Tamron 28-75 ?
I had Tamron 28-75 and Canon 24-70 at the same time and optically to my untrained eye they were similar.
Some people say that 17-55 has edge over 24-70 and it has IS.
Personally I prefer FF so if it was me I would get 5d and tamron.
p.2 #11 · 60D with 17-55 or 5DII with Tamron 28-75 ?
Omnicolor, you mentioned high-ISO work, and, although we still need to see the 60D tested, I'm thinking the 5DII will still be miles ahead on that score; it certainly beats the 7D by a bit more than 1 stop.
But it remains a difficult choice as the lens is also involved-looking at the test at slrgear.com, that Tamron, although nice and sharp, will cause vignetting at 2.8 and 4.0; if you want sharp and clear corners you'd have to go to a 5.6 aperture, no problem with the tripod studio work, but it might be tricky in low-light family shots.
You actually could get that 50/1.8 lens your collegue did use too for those moments, I guess...it's very cheap, a real bargain. 85/1.8 is not very expensive either.
Personally, given your subject matter, I'd go for the 5DII with the 50/1.8 or 85/1.8-you'll have a much bigger and brighter viewfinder, better IQ, build quality, MFA...the list goes on, it's in an entirely different league compared to a rebel (the changes in features of the 60D compared to even the 50D -no MFA, plastic body- put it in the rebel series as far as I am concerned). Since you said you're not using flash at all, the 5DII's lack of built-in flash is no issue.
Having said that, buying a used one does involve some risk of course...finding a good one, and even then, little or no warranty...and, after all is said and done, the 60D will also be a nice step up from your 350...
p.2 #13 · 60D with 17-55 or 5DII with Tamron 28-75 ?
magyarangol wrote:
EDIT: If you are talking about the Canon EF-S 17-55mm f2.8 IS USM, then it wont work on the FF 5D Mk II
The Canon EF-S 17-55mm f2.8 IS USM, IMO, is one the best lens for crop sensor camera and a keeper!!
I know ! That's the thing!
Do I keep my stellar 17-55, and use it on a 60d (for my preferences, 60d might be better than 7d) OR do I disregard the 17-55, get a FF cam, use my tam 28-75 and some nice primes instead.? gah, this is making me lose sleep
5d2
+shallow DOF. Fun!
+color reproduction (good thing since i document paintings)
+Viewfinder!, handling, C-modes. it's a real camera goddamn it.
+a bit better in low light.
+I've got the 50mm 1.8, which would be a fun normal prime on FF.
p.2 #14 · 60D with 17-55 or 5DII with Tamron 28-75 ?
Decisions decisions
Only you can decide mate If you sold the 17-55 you should get some good money for it. Not sure why you still wish to look at the 60D though?? Swivle screen or no swivle screen .... It's plastic! End of
For the money you have to spend there is only one choice IMO. Or... wait, save some more and get a 5D MkIII when it comes out. This is the problem I face right now to upgrade from the 400D. 5DIII arrival looks like some way off so I may go with the 7D.
Good luck in what you do
EDIT: (again...) you could also look at getting an older FF camera like the original 5D on e-bay and play with it Just a thought
p.2 #15 · 60D with 17-55 or 5DII with Tamron 28-75 ?
magyarangol wrote:
Decisions decisions
Only you can decide mate If you sold the 17-55 you should get some good money for it. Not sure why you still wish to look at the 60D though?? Swivle screen or no swivle screen .... It's plastic! End of
)
