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Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread
  
 
edwardkaraa
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p.748 #1 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread


Adam, very nice Write up and congratulations for your wedding! Your experience echoes what other users have reported back from using the M.

I am not sure why you say M9 files are grainy and gritty at base iso. In my experience it has the cleanest base iso of any camera I have ever used. Of course some grit is due to the lack of AA filter, but definitely there is no grain to be seen. I'm a bit concerned about the milky files of the M. I have noticed this myself in online samples but some claim it is due to the better DR, and a little boost in contrast should cure it, but I'm not so sure about that.



Jul 17, 2013 at 12:09 PM
rsolti13
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p.748 #2 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread


edwardkaraa wrote:
I am not sure why you say M9 files are grainy and gritty at base iso. In my experience it has the cleanest base iso of any camera I have ever used.


I am with you here, Edward. Out of all the Nikons, Sonys, OMD, etc I have used, M9 has the cleanest base ISO....well maybe the exception is the RX1. You want to see poor base ISO, try the OMD .

The M9 is about as perfect a camera can be for me, except the high ISO. I wish it was a couple stops better. My perfect camera would be the M9 with an upgraded CCD sensor (sorry, don't want CMOS and don't care about live view....or video....or adapting slr lenses) for better high iso performance and a quieter shutter. That's all I want. Don't need the other (dare I say) gimmicky stuff so we can attempt to justify a $7,000 price



Jul 17, 2013 at 12:21 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.748 #3 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread


rsolti13 wrote:
I am with you here, Edward. Out of all the Nikons, Sonys, OMD, etc I have used, M9 has the cleanest base ISO....well maybe the exception is the RX1. You want to see poor base ISO, try the OMD .

The M9 is about as perfect a camera can be for me, except the high ISO. I wish it was a couple stops better. My perfect camera would be the M9 with an upgraded CCD sensor (sorry, don't want CMOS and don't care about live view....or video....or adapting slr lenses) for better high iso performance and a quieter shutter. That's
...Show more

Mirroring my own thoughts In fact, apart from the better high iso, I also would have loved the improved RF mechanism with tighter tolerances. Otherwise, indeed, I have no use for the gimmicks neither.



Jul 17, 2013 at 12:54 PM
joakim
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p.748 #4 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread


Thanks Phil and Ryan!

Ryan, the exposure was 0.5 sec and I had to stop down to f/11 to get a longer exposure since I didn't have a filter with me.



Jul 17, 2013 at 01:06 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.748 #5 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread


edwardkaraa wrote:
Mirroring my own thoughts In fact, apart from the better high iso, I also would have loved the improved RF mechanism with tighter tolerances. Otherwise, indeed, I have no use for the gimmicks neither.



I'm hoping that Leica makes an M-E without the bells and whistles and the new CMOS sensor (NO VIDEO PLEASE)....



Jul 17, 2013 at 01:19 PM
rsolti13
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p.748 #6 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread


how about some pictures?

CV 21 Ultron








CV 50 Nokton II















Jul 17, 2013 at 01:28 PM
rsolti13
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p.748 #7 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread


Long story short...ended up with a free Nikon 50 f/2 Sonnar in LTM. Very cool rendering at near distance wide open



















this one at f/2.8








Jul 17, 2013 at 01:36 PM
rscheffler
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p.748 #8 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread


Wow Ryan, free gear is almost always a good thing. Looks great here.

Adam, great write up. I'm very interested in how you resolve the slow card write times. It's probably a matter of finding the right cards, but Thorsten Overgaard has also indicated the M240 isn't as much of a speed demon as I would have liked/expected, especially at higher ISOs. Considering how the M9 already frustrates me in high-paced shooting situations (i.e. weddings), it somewhat concerns me.

I agree with Adam that the M9 at base ISO has noise. I personally don't consider it an issue, as it adds some 'tooth' to images and keeps them from looking plastic and digital.

Sorry for not commenting on everything over the last couple pages since my last post. Been away from the computer. Was visiting friends with a newborn last evening, and during the visit noticed a banding problem with the M9. This same thing happened to me at the end of a wedding a couple weeks ago, but was limited to maybe 6-10 images.

Sample:







More examples

Here's an explanation:

This happened on two different cards, though both were Transcend 16GB SDHC class 10, and two batteries. I shot about 230 images during the visit and it started to appear about 1/3 of the way into the set and suddenly stopped about 1/4 from the end of the set. In the middle section of 95 images, 45 have this banding. While 45 images out of 231 is 'only' 20%, during the period in which this banding is visible, it's almost 50% of the total. When the banding started I was running out of space on the card (but didn't realize it at the time) and actually got the card full message. At that point I also swapped out the battery, which was at about 50%. I should note that I'm still using firmware 1.176, primarily because of how discreet mode on the shutter release was compromised by the latest firmware release, at least from my understanding. I think most of these were done with single frame advance, rather than continuous. I also generally avoid reviewing images before the red activity light stops blinking. But the banding still appears in images on the fresh card and battery, though not in the last 52 images. As mentioned isn't the first occurrence. I noticed it in a handful of images I shot at a wedding about a week ago but at the time it seemed like an anomaly. Now to have 45 images in a fairly tight cluster affected by this, is shaking my confidence in the camera. I've seen this banding with my camera before, but usually it was very rare and one-offs.

More info: The banding is visible in the camera's previews, therefore I'm ruling out a bad card reader on the computer. I've seen similar banding from my Canon images, but every single time it was a card reader problem and didn't originate in the camera. It's got me thinking maybe the card reader in the camera is going.

Probably needs to be sent to Leica, but the problem with that is I'll be without the camera for weeks on end. Not really feasible, though if this persists, the camera also isn't reliably usable.

With the M nearly impossible to find, maybe a used M9 as back up is in order, though I'd rather put that money towards an M. I always knew there was some risk relying on a single unique camera as part of my overall kit, but seems I'm finally forced to face the consequences.

Any thoughts or similar experiences?




Jul 17, 2013 at 04:44 PM
seekuh
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p.748 #9 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread


Ron, did the banding occur at low iso or high iso settings?

Even if you sent the camera to Leica, I doubt they would confirm a banding issue due to a specific fault of YOUR camera since banding issues seem to happen from time to time with all M9s. Hope I'm wrong.



Jul 17, 2013 at 05:10 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.748 #10 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread


Sorry to hear about this problem, Ron. It never happened to me so I can't help here, but the Leica user forum is where you should ask, as they seem to know of every possible problem with the M9.


Jul 17, 2013 at 05:11 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



zhangyue
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p.748 #11 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread


Ron, even I have't had any problem since update the firmware. I don't think I can rely on leica M9 as professional tool for wedding. Reliability is way more important than Slightly IQ advantage.
My guess is internal electronics get heat up during heavy usage cause the abnormal writing or even capture problem in sensor. I'd say leica just don't have the expertise of canikonoy's mass production even their units assembled by hand, inspected by human. We are not talking about build a chair, leather bag, or even lens. Electronics device testing is a huge investment from any company that can not be handled by leica either finically or technically.

A camera rely on mechanical coupling for focus always be a problem, especially at f1,f1.4, not mention focus recompose error. What you gonna do the body get a bump shift the focus in the middle of wedding?

I enjoy use M9 and it is my most loved camera so far but for wedding, professional use, it can only be used as 2nd body at most.

Great shots, guys. I will add some travel photos from last week later.
From iPhone, sorry for typo.



Jul 17, 2013 at 06:09 PM
redisburning
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p.748 #12 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread


rsolti13 wrote:
Long story short...ended up with a free Nikon 50 f/2 Sonnar in LTM. Very cool rendering at near distance wide open


wow, Im jealous.

I bought one off KEH in UG condition hoping it was only the outside that was in bad shape, but it had some internatl problems so I had to send it back ones in good shape go for so much, I cant justify one.



Jul 17, 2013 at 06:41 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.748 #13 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread





Jul 17, 2013 at 09:43 PM
muc_marlin
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p.748 #14 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread


today I visited three lakes...as usual captured with M9P



























Jul 17, 2013 at 10:04 PM
seekuh
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p.748 #15 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread


Fantastic!!


Jul 17, 2013 at 10:11 PM
charles.K
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p.748 #16 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread


Ash, wonderful composition!
Ryan, love the 21 Utron B&W images. Great beachscapes, and your daughter makes for a wonderful model.
Peter, amazing shots above!

Ron, I feel for you! I have had my M9's many times for calibration and repairs. Not being a working professional, I can fully understand that a more cost effective system with full backup is a necessity for pro's. I think the issue of the quality of SD cards/readers is a widespread problem. I only recently had a SD card reader fail in my Sony RX1, and I would imagine Sony would have very tight tolerances on their production on these items. Sony, after 3 weeks, replaced my RX1 new, as the cost of the repair outweighed the new replacement.

The problem, you describe has happened to me many times, where I just kept discarding SD cards, for fear that the problem may return. This has drastically reduced the problem for me.



edwardkaraa wrote:
Mirroring my own thoughts In fact, apart from the better high iso, I also would have loved the improved RF mechanism with tighter tolerances. Otherwise, indeed, I have no use for the gimmicks neither.



I completely agree here! The processor speed, for startup, read/writing to cards and the ability to take sequential shots needs to be there with the late model offerings that are now available. From the shots I have seen, I am somewhat unimpressed with the higher ISO ability, as I would expected more from a CMOS sensor. If the ISO ability of the new M240 was similar to that of the M-M, I would have jumped on it already.

I am happy with the M9P and M-M, but there really needs to be good reason to upgrade to M240, now that the RX1R is available. Having the RX1, I have no urgency to upgrade now to the M240. I would most definitely like the LCD for review, but I would rarely use the LV, and I would not bother with other lenses, as this would take away the simplicity of the system for me.
The M9P with the 50 Nocti f1.0, being my favorite lens, makes up for the lower ISO ability, for now. I am meant to have a M240 in about 3 weeks finally, so I may change my opinion completely once it is in my hands



Jul 18, 2013 at 04:01 AM
edwardkaraa
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p.748 #17 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread


Charles, I would love to know your opinion about the M once you receive it. Mine is due around September/October but I am seriously considering to delay my purchase to see what is Sony going to announce in a couple of months.

As with Ron's sensor problem, I am seeing a lot of reports of sensor defects with the M240, and I really believe that the Nex9, while not a range finder, will at least be a perfect well thought product that has the speed, high iso performance, and all the refinements one would expect from a 2013 camera.



Jul 18, 2013 at 04:56 AM
rscheffler
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p.748 #18 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread


zhangyue wrote:
Ron, even I have't had any problem since update the firmware. I don't think I can rely on leica M9 as professional tool for wedding. Reliability is way more important than Slightly IQ advantage.
My guess is internal electronics get heat up during heavy usage cause the abnormal writing or even capture problem in sensor. I'd say leica just don't have the expertise of canikonoy's mass production even their units assembled by hand, inspected by human. We are not talking about build a chair, leather bag, or even lens. Electronics device testing is a huge investment from any company that
...Show more

Michael, I understand what you're saying and that I can do the work with my Canon system. But over the last couple years I've developed a hybrid system that works quite well for me and actually benefits from the use of a rangefinder, manual focus camera. And quite simply, I don't enjoy using DSLRs for some of this kind of work. For all of the reasons that have been debated umpteen times in an infinite loop, the rangefinder is faster and more accurate for me than MF through an OVF SLR finder or an EVF, therefore I'm reluctant to give it up. When shooting weddings, it's not about the absolute best optical quality, rather flexibility and the ability to survive to the end of the often very long, very hot/humid day. At my advanced age , big heavy equipment is increasingly taxing.

Leica service would be much less of a hindrance if in the USA they'd adopt the same Fast and Express service options available in the EU from Solms, where the express service is two working days, though at a considerable price premium.

For me at least, this is the greatest indicator that while Leica says they cater to professionals with the M and S systems, it's all words without real world action. At least for M system, since I believe you can buy special S system service plans.

seekuh wrote:
Ron, did the banding occur at low iso or high iso settings?

Even if you sent the camera to Leica, I doubt they would confirm a banding issue due to a specific fault of YOUR camera since banding issues seem to happen from time to time with all M9s. Hope I'm wrong.


Thanks Hilmar. That is also my concern. - that they won't be able to duplicate the problem. When it happened at the wedding, it was at a higher ISO, either 640 or 1250. When it happened on Tuesday, it was at ISO 160. This banding issue is dramatically different than the 'normal' M9 banding I've seen quite frequently. The normal banding, which at its worst can have similarities, it is typically much more subtle.

charles.K wrote:
Ron, I feel for you! I have had my M9's many times for calibration and repairs. Not being a working professional, I can fully understand that a more cost effective system with full backup is a necessity for pro's. I think the issue of the quality of SD cards/readers is a widespread problem. I only recently had a SD card reader fail in my Sony RX1, and I would imagine Sony would have very tight tolerances on their production on these items. Sony, after 3 weeks, replaced my RX1 new, as the cost of the repair outweighed the new replacement.

The
...Show more

Thanks Charles. I have done the same whenever I've noticed what seemed to be a flare up of the M9's 'normal' banding and simply stopped using that card with it. But this time it has happened with three different cards that I've had in the rotation for quite some time, well, at least a year or so. Maybe they're getting old...

BTW, I realize LUF is an option, but since there is a ready source of reliable M9 users here, though I'd ask our group first. I guess time to trawl the LUF archives.

Allen - excellent summer vignette!
Peter, wow, great scenics!
Joakim, wanted to mention how much I enjoyed the B&W image of the stream/river.

Here are a couple from back in May, on the French River, during a brief break in the incessant rain during our visit:












M9 & 21 Lux, 28 Cron, both wide open.
Yes, a bag full of pricy, non-buoyant Leica gear out on the open water in a tippy vessel.



Jul 18, 2013 at 06:25 AM
adamdewilde
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p.748 #19 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread


Hi guys,

Sorry, I'll start answering questions and posting photos in a few days.
A family member informed us of an emergency surgery that was taking place after the wedding (didn't want to tell us until we were married, to not stress us out). So I'm dealing with all that right now.

Just to quickly answer the few questions I can. It seems that I'd be happy using ISO 1600 for work, 3200 if I really had to. But anything below is pretty clean. My honest opinion from what I can remember, the M10 at least has a 1.5 stop advantage over the M9 for ISO, I'm thinking with a bit of cleanup you're looking at 2 stops, but I'll have to check my M9 files next week to be sure.

To reiterate my base ISO point. If you look at a nikon file at 100%, there are little tiny black dots all over the place, a canon file doesn't have this, but is more milky, I think canon somehow tries to "mask" it. I noticed that the M9 had this but instead of black dots its colored dots. And the M10 seems to not have it as much as they use canon's masking method. BUT, not as milky as canon. Really hard to explain. Maybe I should just do a 100% montage to show everyone, since I have either the cameras laying around, or files on one of my HDDs that I can show.
Put it this way, at 50% you cannot notice any of the things I'm mentioning, on any of the cameras..

I guess I'll have to buy one of every SD card that's worth a damn, and run some tests. But right now, I'm really not happy with the speed, it's annoying enough to mention, and needs to be addressed.

Also again whitebalance is crazy stupid, I've noticed it more and more... I remember now why I used manual WB on the M9 (wish that live view on the M10 would allow me to WUSIWUG the Kelvin setting, like Nikon and Canon does, that'd be a big help). Fuji X-E1 does leagues better in the whitebal dept.



Jul 18, 2013 at 10:36 AM
rsolti13
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p.748 #20 · Leica M8/M9/X1 Picture Thread


Peter, magnificent landscapes. #3 and #4 are my favorites.

Ron, that takes some big ones putting over $10k of equipment on the little boat .....but well worth it. Great shots, I particularly like the 21 Lux. I did have that same banding as well with my last M9 with a Transcend card. Got rid of the card and never had an issue again. Not saying that was it, but I did have that same issue out of the blue just once.



Jul 18, 2013 at 12:20 PM
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