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Leica M/X/T Picture Thread
  
 
Mitch Alland
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p.737 #1 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


edwardkaraa wrote:
I need your opinions here guys. This is one of the photos where the Leica and adobe profiles really make a difference. What do you guys think?...


Edward, although it's a matter of taste, I prefer the second one, which presumably is the Leica profile. So, instead of singing "Mama don't take my Kodachrome away", I'd sing, "don't take my embedded profile away." In any case, in your earlier posts I prefer your images from DNG files to your o-o-c JPGs.

—Mitch/Bangkok
Bangkok Obvioius [WIP]
Eggleston said that he was "at war with the obvious"...


Edited on Jul 07, 2013 at 04:35 AM · View previous versions



Jul 07, 2013 at 01:03 AM
adamdewilde
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p.737 #2 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


I have no idea how to use color profiles, I'm not gonna lie to anyone.
And I'm also not sure if I see the value in it. Couldn't/wouldn't you just alter the colors individually, depending on the scene?

Edward - To answer your question, I like the sky and deep sea in the first photo, the shallow water (right after the wave) and girl in the second. Merge the two together!



Jul 07, 2013 at 03:09 AM
edwardkaraa
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p.737 #3 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


Thank you very much for your comments Joakim, Gary, Phil, Mitch and Adam. Greatly appreciated.

To be clear the first is the Leica profile, the second is adobe.

I see most lean towards the adobe profile, which is understandable because of the blue skies and water, and more pinkish/natural skin tones. In fact adobe has the merit of making nice blue skies even when they are not as nice in reality. The Leica profile looks more like the real colors I saw with my eyes, with a lot of cyan from the evening light.

I believe both are not perfect, and probably something in between would produce the best results.



Jul 07, 2013 at 04:15 AM
Mitch Alland
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p.737 #4 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


charles.K wrote:
...Mitch, wonderful series, and love the PP'ing!

Some shots from Penglai, Shandong district in China. M9P 50 Nocti f/1.0 and 24 Lux...


Charles, thanks. Great color and clarity in your Penglai shots. I've been toying with the idea of getting the Summilux-21, particularly after reading Ron's review of 21mm lenses. I have the Elmarit-21 ASPH, which I like but the Summilux-21 could be fantastic for color street photography at night. Somewhat concerned by the weight of the great chunk of glass, but I won't ask a masochist who carries that AND the Noctilux. I had the Noctilux but got tired of the difficulty of focusing at f/1.0 and the long focus throw, which was difficult for street photography.


joe88 wrote:
...Mitch, excellent shots, #1, 3, 5 & 6 are my favorites from this set. did you consider adding vignetting or darkening the corners on #2 and 4 to reduce the grain/noise?...


Thanks, Joe. Hey, it's "grain", not "noise"! No I haven't thought about vignetting: I would do that only when printing if that turns out to be an issue in a test print. However, I have a great tolerance for grain — I like the M9 at ISO 640 — and looking at these images in Lightroom at 50%, which often simulates a print, makes me think it might be okay. I'll see.


jojomon11 wrote:
...Mitch love your work, have you ever tried converting them to B and W? I bet it would really set the mood even more so, the 1st and 3rd def. are my picks...


Phil, thanks. I've been shooting mainly B&W for some years and last November got the M-Monochrom. But since buying the M9-P in mid-February, I've been so taken with the M9 colors that I haven't touched B&W. I'll go do B&W from August 20, when I going to Paris for 6 six weeks but, until then, I'll stick to color. Also, the point of this series was to explore M9 color at night, particularly by shooting at ISO 640 and "pushing" in post=processing. I'll probably post some 6-7 more color night shots tomorrow, in most of which I've tried to go further in "loosening up" on the color. If you're interested in my B&W, here is a series shot in Sri Lanka with the M-Monochrom. Also, below my signature is a download with for my book project, called Bangkok Hysteria.

—Mitch/Bangkok
Bangkok Hysteria [Book project]


Edited on Jul 07, 2013 at 07:22 AM · View previous versions



Jul 07, 2013 at 04:26 AM
Gary Clennan
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p.737 #5 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


From an evening walk tonight....






90cron pre-AA






90cron pre-AA






90cron pre-AA




Jul 07, 2013 at 04:31 AM
Mitch Alland
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p.737 #6 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


edwardkaraa wrote:
...To be clear the first is the Leica profile, the second is adobe...The Leica profile looks more like the real colors I saw with my eyes, with a lot of cyan from the evening light...


After reading the above I looked in my Lightroom settings to see what I've been using and it's the Adobe profile, which I have liked. I'll have to try the embedded profile to see the difference, but no rush 'cause that could "take my Kodachrome away".

—Mitch/Bangkok



Jul 07, 2013 at 04:32 AM
edwardkaraa
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p.737 #7 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


Gary, the second shot is fantastic!!!!

Mitch, that is a wise decision. Once you start comparing profiles, life becomes very complicated



Jul 07, 2013 at 04:34 AM
zhangyue
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p.737 #8 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


Ron, Incredible shots from ROM, I certainly enjoy your Process and composition.
Charles, What a beautiful set of picture, make me really miss China. Penglai is very close to Qingdao, was that a business trip or just traveling? were you able to visit Qingdao?
Edward, I prefer the 1st one! It looks much more special and beautiful to my eyes. You don;t need worry about profile, your pics color look great.
Mitch, nice street set from night. They are full of life.
Gary, there is a bautiful rendering of 2nd one from 90 pre-AA set.
Phil, nice BW city series.
Ryan, Bike series really tells how each lens rendering. your gathering lens speed is almost comparable to Joe's
Peter, I prefer color set for both of them. General speaking, I prefer BW image has simple well defined content and clear geometry.

The thread became difficult to comments especially after I miss several pgs. keep them (great works) coming.

My 50lux was come back right before my next family trip to Hawaii. I test it today. It is works perfect at almost all range, they did a better job than last time. See how it last this time.
It is a great lens when it works.
All WO
























Jul 07, 2013 at 05:51 AM
jojomon11
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p.737 #9 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


Very nice zhangyue family series love them all

Very nice series Gary, really gorgeous colors!

Phil

Mono w/21 1.8 Ultron









Jul 07, 2013 at 06:42 AM
edwardkaraa
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p.737 #10 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


Zhangyue, thank you very much for your comments. It's interesting that color esthetic is different between Asians and Westerners. My Thai-Chinese girlfriend and my Thai friends to whom I showed the comparison prefer the Leica profile, while Westerners seem to prefer the Adobe profile.

Beautiful set of your kids by the way, very charming!

Phil, very nice, worthy of making a large print.



Jul 07, 2013 at 10:50 AM
 

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charles.K
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p.737 #11 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


Thank you Peter, Joakim, Edward, Gary, Joe, Phil, Mitch, Michael, for your kind words)

Joakim, very nice set with the 90 Elmarit
TAG, nice set!
Bruno, nice capture
Edward, I prefer #2 as for skin tones I, but I would warm the tone, marginally. This is very subjective of course
Gary, sports with the M240! This was not possible 6 months ago!!!
Mitch, the older 50 Nocti f/1.0, is lighter and shorter, and fortunately my copy is well calibrated so it is very easy to focus. I have had re calibrated about 3 times to get it right. The 24 Lux is nice compromise for not being to wide, and yet fast for low light work. I feel the 21 is can be very hard to compose shots, unless you have talent of Ron

Gary, very nice evening images!
Michael, wonderful family captures! Love the 50 Lux WO. The trip to Penglai was for business, and I will returning again soon. I did not get the chance...yet to visit Qingdao.
Phil, love it...wonderful rich tones!!!

Some more shots from Penglai M9P 50 Nocti f/1.0 and 24 Lux




























Jul 07, 2013 at 11:46 AM
adamdewilde
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p.737 #12 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


Gary - second shot with the sun just right.. Nice.

Charles - Awesome shots from China, your shots make me want to take another trip there.

jojomon11 - Good B&W. Not a bad lens at all from what I can tell.

zhangyue - First shots great... All are good tho, as always.



Jul 07, 2013 at 03:31 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.737 #13 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


Charles, another great set. 1, 3 and 4 are my favourites.

Thanks for your comments as well.



Jul 07, 2013 at 04:54 PM
rscheffler
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p.737 #14 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


edwardkaraa wrote:
Zhangyue, thank you very much for your comments. It's interesting that color esthetic is different between Asians and Westerners. My Thai-Chinese girlfriend and my Thai friends to whom I showed the comparison prefer the Leica profile, while Westerners seem to prefer the Adobe profile.


Maybe because they have personal experience about the place (or similar places) in your example (IIRC some of Michael's water scenes from China had a similar color quality). I conform to wester expectations and prefer the Adobe version with the 'purer' blue because it's my memory color for such a scene. My memory of blue skies tells me that such a cyan/green shift is 'wrong' but I've definitely seen that color of water before, just never with that color sky. Therefore my mind wants the blue sky of the Adobe profile even though the sand under the water looks too magenta. Also interesting because my impression is many Asians prefer a skin tone rendering towards the pink side rather than yellow, but those differences in your example are subtle and probably difficult for most to see because the sky and water are so different between the two, it masks the differences in skin hue.

At least that was my immediate thought when first seeing the two versions. Looking at them again, I can appreciate the first one has a more dusk-like feel to it and would probably prefer a blend of the two versions.

Mitch the 21 Lux does require more focus precision for exact focus wide open, but it's going to be nowhere near the same as any longer lens. It's still fairly forgiving at most street-scene distances but depth of field will still be pretty shallow. I have no experience with the 21 Elmarit versions, but when I started off with the M9 and ZM21/2.8 found that f/2.8 was sometimes fairly limiting for indoor/night hand held scenes. While one can hand hold such a lens at fairly low shutter speeds, the problem is often subject movement and the extra couple stops from the Lux helps a lot with the M9. It's definitely a large and heavy lens, at least for the M system. I posted some street scenes at night from a local event in this thread about a year ago here. There are additional images in a second post down the page. Exposure was in the 1/45 f/1.4 ISO 1250 range, meaning it would have been quite difficult to get these results with an f/2.8 lens without either dropping the shutter speed considerably lower, or pushing the files a lot in post. If you do get the Lux, make sure you also get the 'steer' from Leica Goodies. I find the focus and aperture rings are too close together and with the same tactile feel, therefore very easy to accidentally move the wrong one especially since on my lens the aperture ring has fairly weak click-stops.

Regarding the question about Thorsten Overgaard's statement about the differences between CCD and CMOS noise - I don't believe CMOS is less random in noise quality than CCD, rather it depends a lot on the individual camera/sensor. The biggest problem might be underlying banding characteristics that subtly become more obvious as files are pushed in post. The M240's sensor appears to have this problem as do those from the Canon 5DII and 5DIII. Banding can be a problem with the M9 too, but might not be strictly a sensor fault, rather a result of complications involving interference within the entire electronics system. My old CCD sensor Canon 1D also had banding problems.

It's only a guess, but one difference that might lead him to this conclusion is how low ISO noise is suppressed in the M9 vs. M240. My feeling is the M9's low ISO files always show fine luminance noise while the M240's seem a bit cleaner and more in-line with what one sees from other current cameras. It's possible the sensor software for the M240 and other CMOS cameras apply some noise reduction at all ISOs that results in a somewhat less randomized looking noise structure for some observers?

From the images you posted, I agree about the light quality shooting night street scenes and like that quality in the first one. Overall I think I like the third image best. On the technical side, I find the purple frame edges to be somewhat annoying. Unfortunately this is a side effect of pushing M9 files. If your lenses are also coded, then the camera applies some vignetting correction, which compounds the effects from pushing in post. This is about the only downside related to the technique of shooting at lower ISOs and pushing in post because the strength of the M9's lens correction varies with the ISO - it's stronger at lower ISOs.

Charles - excellent daily life scenes and it seems skies there are blue!
Phil - very nice balance and tonality!
Michael - glad your 50 Lux is back and appears to be working. Shall we set a timer to see how long it stays true? I really like the first and fourth from the set!
Gary, the 90 pre-AA certainly has great Leica color and tonal quality. Love the feel of the first and second. Nice try with the M240 & sports. From my impressions, the M240 is probably too laggy in live view for precise timing of fast action. I had the chance to shoot a MLS soccer match with the Sony A77 last year and found the EVF to be somewhat annoying for this application. I think because the pixel density is still insufficient and therefore difficult to really see where the exact point of focus is. But I think manual focusing will be a thing of the past pretty soon. Combine the new on-pixel phase detect AF of the sensor in Canon's 70D with plenoptic (Lytro) lightfield technology and we may not be that far away from tweaking focus in post.
Bruno - nice friends!
Scott - looks like it was a fun time out with the family!
Joakim - I think I like the third one best, but then am very much drawn to such geometric compositions. Not entirely sure I like the processing of the first two. The heavy shadows/blacks create a hard feeling for scenes my memory tells me should have more tonal nuances and a softer, more lush feeling. But this is only my opinion.
Completely OT, but wanted to say I really liked your series posted in the GR thread from the last game at your hometown stadium. We just went through that last year here where I live. But the entire process was very tense due to the competing interests of various parties about where the new stadium should be built, who will pay for it, and what it should look like. Your old stadium seems to have some interesting character, such as the brickwork, which hopefully can be replicated in the new one. I'm afraid that here we're going to get an uncreative and sanitized version of what we had. One that will look vaguely similar, but will be missing the interesting quirks of the old one. It will also be smaller, which means the football team will raise the average price of tickets to offset the lower capacity, which will probably displace many of the interesting, though lower income individuals who were a fair percentage of past attendance. Usually stadiums are rebuilt to make them larger, but not here!

A couple more from the ROM:












Both 28 Cron. Unfortunately without any control over the situation, couldn't do much about the window reflections...



Jul 07, 2013 at 04:59 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.737 #15 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


Ron, fully agree with your analysis. In this part of the world, blue skies are rarely to be seen, and only under very particular conditions. The 1st shot is probably closer to reality, even the yellowish skin tones. The adobe profile certainly has the tendency to exaggerate anything blue, giving them a deep saturated hue very much like Fujichrome slide film, but in many cases the result is not realistic, even if more pleasing. I wish I could have the deep blue skies that you guys get up north, but our skies in the tropics are mostly faded cyan/grey.

Very nice set by the way, and I really like the 2nd shot



Jul 07, 2013 at 05:20 PM
joakim
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p.737 #16 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


Thank you Phil, Charles and Ron.

Ron, I like the geometric shapes in the first. The stadium we're moving to is completely new but built in another part of the town and we'll share it with another club so there will be no connection whatsoever with our old one. Our old stadium was built for the summer Olympics in Stockholm 1912 so it has a lot of history and cultural value. I'm sure the new stadium will be better in many ways but it won't have the same character and personality as the old one, very much as an classic lens compared to a modern sibling I suppose.



Jul 07, 2013 at 05:38 PM
rscheffler
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p.737 #17 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


Thanks Edward and Joakim.

Edward, I can sympathize somewhat from my brief trips to Taiwan where often it was hazy sky. I was given a Taiwan picture book as a gift and the picture-postcard images were all blue sky scenes. I guess every few days a year the haze lifts and the photographers all rush out for nice landscape photos. I'm joking of course.

Joakim, That's quite some history to the stadium! Will it simply be torn down? The site of our stadium was that of the first Commonwealth Games in 1930 (then known as the British Empire Games), but the stadium had been rebuilt at least once.

Wrapping up the ROM:

















2x 28 Cron, last one with 21 Lux.



Jul 07, 2013 at 06:19 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.737 #18 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


Ron, I like the colors in no. 1 and the composition and moment in no. 2

About blue skies, it's exactly what you say, no kidding Whenever we get blue skies in Bangkok, I skip work and go out shooting. All postcards I have seen locally have electric blue skies, which of course are added in Photoshop, or taken by very patient photographers



Jul 07, 2013 at 06:37 PM
joakim
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p.737 #19 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


Ron, it will definitely not be teared down because it's been marked as a "Cultural memory" (not sure how it translates) which means it must remains exactly the way it is or at least the exterior. Actually that was one of the reasons my club had to look for another solution because, even though they tried, it was impossible to expand the number of seats or build better facilities for selling foods and drinks etc which meant it was hard to maintain healthy finances.


Jul 07, 2013 at 09:16 PM
joakim
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p.737 #20 · Leica M/X/T Picture Thread


Ron, the second one is very well done.


Jul 07, 2013 at 09:18 PM
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