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Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread
  
 
edwardkaraa
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p.692 #1 · p.692 #1 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Charles, another great set. 1, 3 and 4 are my favourites.

Thanks for your comments as well.



Jul 07, 2013 at 04:54 PM
rscheffler
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p.692 #2 · p.692 #2 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


edwardkaraa wrote:
Zhangyue, thank you very much for your comments. It's interesting that color esthetic is different between Asians and Westerners. My Thai-Chinese girlfriend and my Thai friends to whom I showed the comparison prefer the Leica profile, while Westerners seem to prefer the Adobe profile.


Maybe because they have personal experience about the place (or similar places) in your example (IIRC some of Michael's water scenes from China had a similar color quality). I conform to wester expectations and prefer the Adobe version with the 'purer' blue because it's my memory color for such a scene. My memory of blue skies tells me that such a cyan/green shift is 'wrong' but I've definitely seen that color of water before, just never with that color sky. Therefore my mind wants the blue sky of the Adobe profile even though the sand under the water looks too magenta. Also interesting because my impression is many Asians prefer a skin tone rendering towards the pink side rather than yellow, but those differences in your example are subtle and probably difficult for most to see because the sky and water are so different between the two, it masks the differences in skin hue.

At least that was my immediate thought when first seeing the two versions. Looking at them again, I can appreciate the first one has a more dusk-like feel to it and would probably prefer a blend of the two versions.

Mitch the 21 Lux does require more focus precision for exact focus wide open, but it's going to be nowhere near the same as any longer lens. It's still fairly forgiving at most street-scene distances but depth of field will still be pretty shallow. I have no experience with the 21 Elmarit versions, but when I started off with the M9 and ZM21/2.8 found that f/2.8 was sometimes fairly limiting for indoor/night hand held scenes. While one can hand hold such a lens at fairly low shutter speeds, the problem is often subject movement and the extra couple stops from the Lux helps a lot with the M9. It's definitely a large and heavy lens, at least for the M system. I posted some street scenes at night from a local event in this thread about a year ago here. There are additional images in a second post down the page. Exposure was in the 1/45 f/1.4 ISO 1250 range, meaning it would have been quite difficult to get these results with an f/2.8 lens without either dropping the shutter speed considerably lower, or pushing the files a lot in post. If you do get the Lux, make sure you also get the 'steer' from Leica Goodies. I find the focus and aperture rings are too close together and with the same tactile feel, therefore very easy to accidentally move the wrong one especially since on my lens the aperture ring has fairly weak click-stops.

Regarding the question about Thorsten Overgaard's statement about the differences between CCD and CMOS noise - I don't believe CMOS is less random in noise quality than CCD, rather it depends a lot on the individual camera/sensor. The biggest problem might be underlying banding characteristics that subtly become more obvious as files are pushed in post. The M240's sensor appears to have this problem as do those from the Canon 5DII and 5DIII. Banding can be a problem with the M9 too, but might not be strictly a sensor fault, rather a result of complications involving interference within the entire electronics system. My old CCD sensor Canon 1D also had banding problems.

It's only a guess, but one difference that might lead him to this conclusion is how low ISO noise is suppressed in the M9 vs. M240. My feeling is the M9's low ISO files always show fine luminance noise while the M240's seem a bit cleaner and more in-line with what one sees from other current cameras. It's possible the sensor software for the M240 and other CMOS cameras apply some noise reduction at all ISOs that results in a somewhat less randomized looking noise structure for some observers?

From the images you posted, I agree about the light quality shooting night street scenes and like that quality in the first one. Overall I think I like the third image best. On the technical side, I find the purple frame edges to be somewhat annoying. Unfortunately this is a side effect of pushing M9 files. If your lenses are also coded, then the camera applies some vignetting correction, which compounds the effects from pushing in post. This is about the only downside related to the technique of shooting at lower ISOs and pushing in post because the strength of the M9's lens correction varies with the ISO - it's stronger at lower ISOs.

Charles - excellent daily life scenes and it seems skies there are blue!
Phil - very nice balance and tonality!
Michael - glad your 50 Lux is back and appears to be working. Shall we set a timer to see how long it stays true? I really like the first and fourth from the set!
Gary, the 90 pre-AA certainly has great Leica color and tonal quality. Love the feel of the first and second. Nice try with the M240 & sports. From my impressions, the M240 is probably too laggy in live view for precise timing of fast action. I had the chance to shoot a MLS soccer match with the Sony A77 last year and found the EVF to be somewhat annoying for this application. I think because the pixel density is still insufficient and therefore difficult to really see where the exact point of focus is. But I think manual focusing will be a thing of the past pretty soon. Combine the new on-pixel phase detect AF of the sensor in Canon's 70D with plenoptic (Lytro) lightfield technology and we may not be that far away from tweaking focus in post.
Bruno - nice friends!
Scott - looks like it was a fun time out with the family!
Joakim - I think I like the third one best, but then am very much drawn to such geometric compositions. Not entirely sure I like the processing of the first two. The heavy shadows/blacks create a hard feeling for scenes my memory tells me should have more tonal nuances and a softer, more lush feeling. But this is only my opinion.
Completely OT, but wanted to say I really liked your series posted in the GR thread from the last game at your hometown stadium. We just went through that last year here where I live. But the entire process was very tense due to the competing interests of various parties about where the new stadium should be built, who will pay for it, and what it should look like. Your old stadium seems to have some interesting character, such as the brickwork, which hopefully can be replicated in the new one. I'm afraid that here we're going to get an uncreative and sanitized version of what we had. One that will look vaguely similar, but will be missing the interesting quirks of the old one. It will also be smaller, which means the football team will raise the average price of tickets to offset the lower capacity, which will probably displace many of the interesting, though lower income individuals who were a fair percentage of past attendance. Usually stadiums are rebuilt to make them larger, but not here!

A couple more from the ROM:












Both 28 Cron. Unfortunately without any control over the situation, couldn't do much about the window reflections...



Jul 07, 2013 at 04:59 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.692 #3 · p.692 #3 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Ron, fully agree with your analysis. In this part of the world, blue skies are rarely to be seen, and only under very particular conditions. The 1st shot is probably closer to reality, even the yellowish skin tones. The adobe profile certainly has the tendency to exaggerate anything blue, giving them a deep saturated hue very much like Fujichrome slide film, but in many cases the result is not realistic, even if more pleasing. I wish I could have the deep blue skies that you guys get up north, but our skies in the tropics are mostly faded cyan/grey.

Very nice set by the way, and I really like the 2nd shot



Jul 07, 2013 at 05:20 PM
joakim
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p.692 #4 · p.692 #4 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Thank you Phil, Charles and Ron.

Ron, I like the geometric shapes in the first. The stadium we're moving to is completely new but built in another part of the town and we'll share it with another club so there will be no connection whatsoever with our old one. Our old stadium was built for the summer Olympics in Stockholm 1912 so it has a lot of history and cultural value. I'm sure the new stadium will be better in many ways but it won't have the same character and personality as the old one, very much as an classic lens compared to a modern sibling I suppose.



Jul 07, 2013 at 05:38 PM
rscheffler
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p.692 #5 · p.692 #5 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Thanks Edward and Joakim.

Edward, I can sympathize somewhat from my brief trips to Taiwan where often it was hazy sky. I was given a Taiwan picture book as a gift and the picture-postcard images were all blue sky scenes. I guess every few days a year the haze lifts and the photographers all rush out for nice landscape photos. I'm joking of course.

Joakim, That's quite some history to the stadium! Will it simply be torn down? The site of our stadium was that of the first Commonwealth Games in 1930 (then known as the British Empire Games), but the stadium had been rebuilt at least once.

Wrapping up the ROM:

















2x 28 Cron, last one with 21 Lux.



Jul 07, 2013 at 06:19 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.692 #6 · p.692 #6 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Ron, I like the colors in no. 1 and the composition and moment in no. 2

About blue skies, it's exactly what you say, no kidding Whenever we get blue skies in Bangkok, I skip work and go out shooting. All postcards I have seen locally have electric blue skies, which of course are added in Photoshop, or taken by very patient photographers



Jul 07, 2013 at 06:37 PM
joakim
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p.692 #7 · p.692 #7 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Ron, it will definitely not be teared down because it's been marked as a "Cultural memory" (not sure how it translates) which means it must remains exactly the way it is or at least the exterior. Actually that was one of the reasons my club had to look for another solution because, even though they tried, it was impossible to expand the number of seats or build better facilities for selling foods and drinks etc which meant it was hard to maintain healthy finances.


Jul 07, 2013 at 09:16 PM
joakim
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p.692 #8 · p.692 #8 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Ron, the second one is very well done.


Jul 07, 2013 at 09:18 PM
Mitch Alland
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p.692 #9 · p.692 #9 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


rscheffler wrote:
...Mitch the 21 Lux does require more focus precision for exact focus wide open, but it's going to be nowhere near the same as any longer lens. It's still fairly forgiving at most street-scene distances but depth of field will still be pretty shallow. I have no experience with the 21 Elmarit versions, but when I started off with the M9 and ZM21/2.8 found that f/2.8 was sometimes fairly limiting for indoor/night hand held scenes. While one can hand hold such a lens at fairly low shutter speeds, the problem is often subject movement and the extra couple stops from
...Show more

Looking at your pictures with the Summilux-21 in p.526 #1 it's interesting to see how one can avoid the "lens" look of a super-wide angle lens by closing up the back plane in the picture, as opposed having the perspective go off into infinity, as in the second picture in p.526 #3, which has that wide-angle look. People often feel that 21mm is too wide but, by closing off the back plane and occasionally not doing so, gives you a lot of flexibility. This also goes for the 28mm lenses. Along this line, the first picture below is shot with the Summicron-28, which, in my view, doesn't have a wide-angle feel to it, compared to the second picture shot with the Summilux-50.

BTW, how you decide between the Summilux-21 and the Summilux-24? I have the Summicron-28 and the Elmarit-21 ASPH so, logicality, I should consider the Summilux-24 but emotionally I'm leaning to the Summilux-21, although I've never shot with a 24mm lens...



Summicron-28 | ISO 640 pushed 2.1 stops | f/2.0 | 1/125 sec

Bangkok




Summilux-50 pre-ASPH pushed 0.25 stop | ISO 640 | f/2.8 | 1/250

Bangkok


—Mitch/Bangkok
Bangkok Obvious [WIP]
Eggleston said that he was "at war with the obvious"...







Jul 07, 2013 at 10:30 PM
charles.K
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p.692 #10 · p.692 #10 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Adam, Ron and Edward, thank you very much, and thank you for all the likes too
Ron, great series with strong design of geometric shapes and composition!
Mitch, very nice evening set! The 21 FL in your hands will no doubt work magic. I personally find the 21 in the streets of Asia, it is very hard to isolate compositions as there is so much peripheral objects and colours.

Edward/Ron, I actually love the tropic hazy skies and the magenta/yellow tones I think this is only time, when you can head out after 10am in the morning and still have the wonderful soft light. Compare this to the harsh Australian lighting, great skies but the lighting on a clear day has so much contrast, it is virtually impossible to take any portraits outside.

Edited on Jul 08, 2013 at 12:54 AM · View previous versions



Jul 08, 2013 at 12:31 AM
 

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zhangyue
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p.692 #11 · p.692 #11 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Thanks for all the comments and likes.

Charles, love that #3 and #4 shot.
Ron, the school kids going up in ROM is so nice, what a color!
Mitch, #1 is excellent. I will only choose focal length and speed(as needed) for #1 priority than lens performance as 2nd!

Edward, My comments is really not about which one I feel more real or not, but which one I enjoy to look for particular picture. If you want some extra freedom on sky, simply turn down luminance of blue channel, adjust hue/saturation of green, Aqua, and Blue will easily deal with problem sea or sky color without mess up skin tone, which is more difficult to deal with, usually. Sounds complicated, but less than 1 min job if you get more experience with it.

With recent added 6D, and also compare to D700, I really appreciate M9's sensor performance more and more. not better or worse, but just a pleasure to see/deal with it.

Both at WO with 50lux from yesterday.







ISO640 and push 2.2 stop











Jul 08, 2013 at 12:45 AM
Mitch Alland
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p.692 #12 · p.692 #12 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Here is the final installment of the color night pictures taken at ISO 640 and "pushed" in Lightroom 5, to complement the set I posted in xxx, which followed up on the set in yyy. In doing black and white, I basically like expressionist photography, but have always felt that I never went far enough in that direction, always holding back somewhat towards "reality" — and in color holding back even more because colors can get weird very fast, not going where you want them to, when you try something unusual. So you can see where I'm coming from with all these night pictures: not only can night pictures, sometimes lit by several different type if light, create beautiful colors, but our vision at night can create some shimmering effects that can be well represented by grain, and has been done so in color film photography for a long time.

A year or so ago, I started a thread on RFF in which I was trying to achieve "expressive color" with the Ricoh GXR and, eventually, when I got the M-Module for that camera, I settled down to developing with Raw Photo Processor (RPP) and its Kodachrome preset. Not bad, but it often required a lot of effort for the processing. My experience with the M9 is that I can get to the type of color that U want much more easily; and the night pictures in my postings for this series shows me that high ISO is not that much of a problem, as I am not looking for noise-free pictures in 100% views on the monitor but am only concerned how prints will look. All this lessens my interest in the M240.

All the pictures in these pictures are taken in a narrow street, where people live in one and two-storey wooden houses with their shops and living rooms on on the ground floor, open to the streets. Comments, both positive and negative are welcome.

Pictures 4 and 5, which are pushed the most unfortunately look somewhat grainier and rougher in gradation in the JPGs than they do in Lightroom, as does No. 3 to a lesser extent: presumably the JPG compression has this effect. Picture 4 was taken at f/1.4 and I didn't have time to focus because the subject was doing up her plastic bag and was just walking away from the stand. I am beginning to like the o-o-f effect, but not yet entirely convinced by this image; nor am I entirely convinced by no. 5.




No. 1 | Summicron-28 | ISO 640 pushed 1.9 stops | f/2.0 | 1/60 sec

Bangkok




No. 2 | Summilux-50 pre-ASPH | ISO 640 pushed 0.8 stop | f/2.0 | 1/350 sec

Bangkok




No. 3 | Summilux-50 pre-ASPH | ISO 640 pushed 2.5 stops | f/2.0 | 1/180 sec

Bangkok




No. 4 | Summilux-50 pre-ASPH | ISO 640 pushed 2.8 stops | f/1.4 | 1/250 sec

Bangkok




No. 5 | Summicron-28 | ISO 640 pushed 3.4 stops | f/2.0 | 1/125 sec

Bangkok




No. 6 | Summicron-28 | ISO 640 pushed 1.1 stops | f/2.8 | 1/125 sec

Bangkok




No. 7 | Summicron-28 | ISO 640 pushed 2.3 stops | f/2.8 | 1/60 sec

Bangkok



—Mitch/Bangkok
Bangkok Obvious [WIP]
Eggleston said that he was "at war with the obvious"...

Edited on Jul 08, 2013 at 01:42 AM · View previous versions



Jul 08, 2013 at 01:28 AM
Mitch Alland
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p.692 #13 · p.692 #13 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Charles/zhangyue thanks for the kind words.

Charles, I would have to think long and hard before getting the Summilux-21. My chance to do so will soon come, as I'll be in Paris for about six weeks from August 20. The ex-VAT cost there is a lot cheaper than in Thailand and about US$1,000 less than in the US — and we won't even talk about Oz, mate.

zhangyue, I like the composition of the B&W photo but for my taste, it needs more contrast.

—Mitch/Bangkok
Bangkok Obvious [WIP]
Eggleston said that he was "at war with the obvious"...

Edited on Jul 08, 2013 at 01:42 AM · View previous versions



Jul 08, 2013 at 01:37 AM
Gary Clennan
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p.692 #14 · p.692 #14 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


One good thing about all the rain here is the wildflowers are abundant.






90cron pre-AA




Jul 08, 2013 at 01:39 AM
joe88
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p.692 #15 · p.692 #15 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Gary, 90Cron looks good, all excellent. 2nd and 3rd shots from the first set are my favorites.
Michael, glad your 50Lux ASPH is back in time for your vacation. Those wide open shots look excellent!
Phil, another excellent shot with the CV21 1.8.
Charles, more excellent shots! 3rd shot is superb, love it.
Ron, more excellent shots from the museum, love the one with the children walking up the stairs. You've covered some great angles on this shoot!
Mitch, yes grain not noise . More excellent night shots. I like #1 & 2 from the first post on p.738, and #1 & 7 from the second set the best. I think if you use LR4 or 5 you might consider dialing in more color noise reduction or additional spot noise reduction on the red edges or very bright areas on the skin tone? The luminance "grain" doesn't bother me but the red "grain" on second set on #4,5 & 7, especially on the edges is quite obvious. Maybe its the web downsizing making it look worse, but I agree, best way to check is to make a few test prints and see how they look. BTW, you can also push your Monochrom files like what you did on the M9. I have posted a few samples earlier on shot at ISO320 and pushed all the way to ISO6400 or 10,000 and the files held up quite well, but with some NR applied.

----
OM 50 3.5 Macro @ f/11








Jul 08, 2013 at 03:53 AM
edwardkaraa
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p.692 #16 · p.692 #16 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Mitch, excellent street series from Bangkok!

Zhangyue, love the 1st shot. I fully understand what you say about the colors and actually I think we have similar taste

Gary, beautiful flower shot!

Joe, delicious shot of the Nokton




Jul 08, 2013 at 04:37 AM
rscheffler
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p.692 #17 · p.692 #17 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Thanks guys for your comments on my ROM series.

Mitch, my preference is for #2 followed by 5 and 7 in your most recent post above, and the 28 Cron image in the prior post. The missed focus of #4 doesn't really bother me so much like the out of focus image did in the first set, perhaps because there is something in focus on the table..

As for why I chose the 21 Lux over the 24... I like 21mm. I've shot the Canon 16-35 on APS-H size sensors (Canon 1D series) from about 2002 until very recently, and it became a very familiar angle of view for me. The 24 Lux didn't appeal as much because I could already get such a lens from Canon, though much larger in size. Until the Voigtlander 21/1.8, the Lux was very unique at that focal length for being able to create considerably more subject/background isolation than the 'standard' 21mm lenses and f/1.4 has been useful with the M9. I figure, if I'm a bit loose at 21mm, I can crop to a 24mm field of view. After about 2.5 years, I've pretty much settled on a 21/28/50/90 lens set as 'standard' for my M9 kit.

BTW, I read through Thorsten Overgaard's M240 running review and agree with him about the 21 Lux (about 2/3 down the page) vs. the 21 SEM, which is almost too perfect a lens. The Lux has character/imperfections that can be creatively useful and find it shares a wide open look/feel with the 50 Lux ASPH.

Very nice Gary!
Joe, very clean, both technically and the lens. Could be a for sale ad... should I check the B&S shortly?

OK, one last one from the ROM. I uploaded it with the others already posted, but was having second thoughts about it... 21 Lux:








Jul 08, 2013 at 05:38 AM
charles.K
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p.692 #18 · p.692 #18 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Thank you Michael, Mitch and Joe

Mitch, very nice low light shots! I must admit I do not err from using 2500 ISO on the M9P with the 50 Nocti for night shots. I have tried pushing 640 ISO, but I still find more color noise to contend with. I don't mind luminescence noise, but color noise with mixed lighting drives me crazy.

Michael, very nice low light images
Gary, very nice capture! Love the 90 Cron PreAA. I think it is one of my favorites for rendering.
Joe, love the Oly lenses! I feel they are very underrated, and most people overlook them.
Ron, really nice shot! Master of the WA's




Jul 08, 2013 at 07:01 AM
rsolti13
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p.692 #19 · p.692 #19 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Charles, great to see you back. Hopefully you are able to get out and go shoot more now!

Ron, really enjoy the series from the ROM. The 21 Lux looks to be an ideal indoor lens. I need to go find some interiors to use the CV 21 in

Phil, another nice one from the CV 21....the MM looks fantastic!

Mitch, another nice set of night shots. I really like #1 & #2 from above. From your images I would think the 21 Lux would be excellent. I think it would pair really nice with the 28 Cron where the 24 Lux would be very close

some more from the 50 Nokton II













one from the 135 Tele-Elmar....135 is not my cup of tea but this one worked









Jul 08, 2013 at 12:31 PM
rsolti13
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p.692 #20 · p.692 #20 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


I have been doing a ton of comparison shots to get a better feel for several lenses....the two I have probably been comparing the most are the Canon 100 f/2 and Nikon 85 f/2. These two lenses are both excellent, and hard to find fault with. The Canon definitely has a more modern feel to it but the Nikon has some great character. The Canon is razor sharp even wide open. I love it. I have probably used over a dozen 75mm+ lenses on the Leica, there is no doubt the Canon is what I have been looking for. The Canon is quite a bit bigger/heavier, but it isn't *that* bad . No sharpening on the images below, just getting a feel of the look

Canon 100 f/2







Nikon 85 f/2







few Canon shots to get the feel of it....all wide open

dof is razor thin...but it nailed this shot, focus was on the feeder





























a few of you are more than familiar with the Nikon 85....but here are a few wide open































Jul 08, 2013 at 12:41 PM
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