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Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread
  
 
eninety
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p.687 #1 · p.687 #1 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


rscheffler wrote:
Hey guys, I was going to write up something but then realized with a bag full of 50mm LTM and M mount lenses, might as well just shoot something.

While it's nothing special, hopefully it gives some idea about the various lenses and their renderings. I shot a leafy backlit scene at 1m (images below) and also 1.5m, as well as an open shade scene at 1m.

I've posted images and download links to the full-rez files on my blog: http://www.ronscheffler.com/techtalk/?p=217

Naturally this isn't near to being definitive and lacks a number of current 50mm lenses, such as the various Crons, Summarit,
...Show more

i kind of like the bokeh of the CV 50 1.5 vm. it seems less busy. the lux is obviously the best, but the planar just seems a bit harsh. but the color of the zeiss being slightly warmer lends its hand to this particular setting.


Edited on Jul 03, 2013 at 02:10 PM · View previous versions



Jul 03, 2013 at 02:09 PM
joe88
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p.687 #2 · p.687 #2 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Thanks Gary, Ryan!

Gary, those Canon 50 1.4 ltm shots all look excellent, this lens is a keeper. It has some of the Nocti 1.0 rendering as well You only have one 50? Are you sure?

Sonnar fever continues! Ryan, congrats on the Canon 50/1.5! Excellent pics and its sharp at f/2! Nice comparison, shoot some portraits wide open for us? I'm considering one of these at some point. Looking forward to your shootout.

edwardkaraa wrote:
Anyhow, what in your opinion is the best current mirrorless body to use with the ZM glass? The GXR-M is not on the list because it has only 10 mp and is discontinued. How about the Fuji XE-1? Anyone has experience with this camera?


Edward, sorry to hear about that, but I guess Ryan is right, if you like RF, its hard to really shoot another system, but you probably need to check on your M(240) pre-order? Otherwise all other systems are a compromise for M glass other than the GXR. Maybe wait a few months and see what else is in store from Sony, Ricoh/Pentax. etc? Also is there a inherent focus shift on the ZM 85/2 Sonnar design?

naturephoto1 wrote:
... I have been down now for almost 6 weeks now due to my Quadruple Heart Bypass Surgery and have not used any camera since. So, I am looking forward to getting out and doing more work with the camera shortly.
Rich


Rich, rest well and hope you are able to go out and shoot shortly.. and take it easy with those telephoto R lenses of yours



Jul 03, 2013 at 02:10 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.687 #3 · p.687 #3 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Thank you very much Ryan, Joe, Richard.

The Sonnar does not have any focus shift as confirmed by my own tests and Zeiss technician. I took my M9 along with the Sonnar to a local Leica lens technician, and he confirmed that the lens is back focusing on both my M9 and his well calibrated M9 that he uses for lens testing purposes. I left the lens with him to see what he can do, but this will take another 7 to 10 days.

The problem with RF is that it either works or it doesn't, and when it doesn't work, it is very frustrating. Let's see what the local Thai technician can do



Jul 03, 2013 at 02:34 PM
joakim
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p.687 #4 · p.687 #4 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Rich, I'll hope you'll have a speedy recovery. Take care.

Edward, I have the Sony NEX-6 and while it works really well with lenses like the new 24 Elmar and the 35 Summicron delivering really good IQ I do not bond with the user interface so I'll will probably let it go. That is of course a highly subjective opinion

Guys, very nice classic lens photos right now and it is really fun comparing all the different lenses. I'll continue this megatrend with two from the Canon 35/1.8 in b&w.














Jul 03, 2013 at 03:47 PM
adamdewilde
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p.687 #5 · p.687 #5 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Gary Clennan wrote:
Hey Adam. I have yet to unplug the charger when it reaches 80%. I usually plug in my battery before bed and unplug it in the morning. Actually, once I left it on the charger for two days by accident. When it reaches full charge, it goes in to idle/maintain mode. No worries - same deal as charging any battery.



That's what I've always done with all my batteries.. Honestly, I keep the D4 batteries on charge when not in use, and have never had issues (I can take thousands of shots on it). But it was weird to read in the manual that it's not advisable. So figured I'd ask to see why, maybe Leica uses inferior chargers. But glad to hear nobody's battery exploded



Jul 03, 2013 at 04:18 PM
adamdewilde
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p.687 #6 · p.687 #6 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


edwardkaraa wrote:
I think I'm done with range finders. Got my 85/2 back from CLA today, wobble is gone, but back focusing has increased. Not blaming Zeiss service or Leica RF calibration, it's just that range finders are not accurate as a system. The lens is already with a local technician for another 10 days

Anyhow, what in your opinion is the best current mirrorless body to use with the ZM glass? The GXR-M is not on the list because it has only 10 mp and is discontinued. How about the Fuji XE-1? Anyone has experience with this camera?



I've been using the X-E1 with quite a lot of Leica and Zeiss glass.. It's really weird, some lenses really just don't pair well at all with the X-E1, and then others work great. It's not a focal length thing, as far as I know, but maybe it's where I stand with a certain lens on a crop sensor vs. where I would stand on full frame with the same lens??

Honestly, it's really hit or miss at this point, and if you get a X-E1, you might as well just buy the Zeiss fuji lenses, or the fuji lenses themselves, as the user experience (rangefinder focusing) is gone, so you'll end up just wanting autofocus. REALLY good lens is the new wide angle Zeiss Touit.

This is how I felt though, when I bought the X-E1, you might feel differently.




Jul 03, 2013 at 04:24 PM
adamdewilde
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p.687 #7 · p.687 #7 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


eninety wrote:
i kind of like the bokeh of the CV 50 1.5 vm. it seems less busy. the lux is obviously the best, but the planar just seems a bit harsh. but the color of the zeiss being slightly warmer lends its hand to this particular setting.



I honestly find it really depends on the shooting distance. Wide open and close, I don't mind the CV 1.5 at all.. I just feel for an overall walk around lens in various situations, for various reasons the 50/2 planar is where I'd spend my money if I was in the market for a 50 and the 50lux was not an option.

Although in Ron's review shots, there is really nothing wrong with the CV 1.5, in fact if that's all you were using it for (close up, wide open), it's no slouch against the 50lux.



Jul 03, 2013 at 04:30 PM
zhangyue
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p.687 #8 · p.687 #8 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Great shots guys, I miss so many pg.

Edward, that is a strong reaction I won't quite system for a single lens. If the Zeiss has no focus shift, but back focusing after service, it is the Zeiss the one to blame, not Leica

To me, M system is always about wide to standard length usage. The system perform great for manual focus and consistent with certain lens. It is shining for many things but suck for the others.

I feel the pain of you after so much hassle since get this 85mm,(I have similar experience with my 50lux) the challenge for long lens with M is not only how consistent lens itself but also you, that is frustrated part of this whole M tele-range shooting.

I personal had high interest in Fuji a while ago, but decide Sony is better sensor with better IQ at this point. I will choose Fuji only if want their native lens, which is great for the money. otherwise, I'd suggest you wait for nex-7N as a 2nd body to cover the shortcoming of M instead of dump it. It is so good and fun for what it is shining.

Just realize I haven't shoot M for a while. My 50lux is on the way back to me

Here are few more from 35cron V1 with M3. Trix400

































Jul 03, 2013 at 04:57 PM
rsolti13
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p.687 #9 · p.687 #9 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Michael, those look great! I really like how the 35 Cron I looks

Few more with CV 50 1.5
































Jul 03, 2013 at 05:06 PM
zhangyue
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p.687 #10 · p.687 #10 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Handsome Dad and beautiful girl


Jul 03, 2013 at 05:08 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



joe88
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p.687 #11 · p.687 #11 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


zhangyue wrote:
Handsome Dad and beautiful girl

+1 Agree with Michael!

Michael, excellent B&W shots with the 35Cron.

Edward, back to rangefinder shooting, the M240 might be the solution to your RF focusing issues. I find focusing more accurate than my M9 and Monochrom, especially with lenses longer than 50mm. Previously with the M9 I had really low keeper rates for 90mm FL (I have poor eyesight and unsteady hands), but with the M240, keeper rates have increased and this is just comparing RF focusing and not live view. I was shooting the Nocti wide open yesterday with RF and when I opened the files back home, I was surprised that almost all shots were in focus, except for a few shots where I could not keep up with a running child.













Jul 03, 2013 at 05:20 PM
rsolti13
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p.687 #12 · p.687 #12 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Thanks Michael, Joe.

Nice job with the Noct Joe. What would be the reason that you can focus long lenses more accurately on the M240 if not for the live view? I am in the same boat...well halfway....can't see great and I struggle past 50mm



Jul 03, 2013 at 05:54 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.687 #13 · p.687 #13 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Thank you Joakim and Adam for your input.

Zhangyue, beautiful film photos.

Ryan, Lovely portraits!

Joe, Both shots are very nice and you nailed the focus right on.

Zhangyue and Joe, regarding the Sonnar, I do not really blame Zeiss. They calibrated the lens according to their criteria, which are probably different than Leica criteria. Any calibration variations, even as low as 1% can have a substantial effect with a long wide aperture lens as the Sonnar. I don't think the M 240 is the solution, because I have no problem with focusing my M9, even with the Sonnar, the back focusing is almost exactly the same in all shots and very consistent. I nail focus 99.99% of the time with my other lenses. I think with some lenses like the Sonnar, calibration is very difficult even for highly experienced technicians. It cannot be done only with factory defaults, but with trial and error on a calibrated body, which is what the local technician will theoretically try to do. If he succeeds, I will certainly forget about the entire issue and keep on shooting happily with the M9



Jul 03, 2013 at 06:02 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.687 #14 · p.687 #14 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Sonnar wide open:


M9 + Zeiss 85 Sonnar by edward karaa, on Flickr



Jul 03, 2013 at 06:21 PM
joe88
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p.687 #15 · p.687 #15 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Thanks Ryan, Edward.

Edward, excellent shot! Rendering looks really modern, and I want your 20/20 eyesight Hope the technician is able to make it work for you. Meanwhile, play around with your ZM25/35/50?

Ryan, the manufacturing tolerances for mechanical parts have been improved. Quoting Erwin Puts site, " The main tolerances for the performance-relevant components and adjustments are now on micron level which is a significant improvement compared to previous models." http://www.imx.nl/photo/leica/leica-m-part-1.html

Also, others have also similar experiences on improved RF focusing
http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/blog/2013/4/the-m-typ-240---leicas-very-grown-up-new-baby-reviewed

But it could be because we all like excuses for new toys! Jokes aside, M(240) seems to be more accurate with focusing across all focal lengths for me. The RF patch contrast still looks the same to me, and I align focusing on the longer lenses as I did on my M9 and bingo, on the M240 it seems to hit focus more often with my 90Cron @f/2, although on my Nikkor 10.5cm and 135 Elmar (without magnifier), my hit rate is still less than 50% with RF. I prefer live view on the 105/135 where it is 100% accurate. The best part with M(240) live view is that we can immediately compare RF focus patch with live view/EVF to see if the lenses or camera is out of calibration.



Jul 03, 2013 at 06:46 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.687 #16 · p.687 #16 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Thank you Joe! I have to shamelessly brag about my focusing abilities with the RF

Indeed I have read in several places that Leica has improved the tolerances of the RF in the M 240 and most owners see a real improvement, even though there are reports of a few with completely screwed up RF calibration. I think the improvement is in the "play" of the RF mechanism, less play means lower error margin. I would have liked an improvement in the optical quality of the VF, similar to the bright contrasty VF of the Zeiss Ikon, but this would mean a complete redesign of the M body, and I don't think this will ever happen.



Jul 03, 2013 at 06:53 PM
adamdewilde
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p.687 #17 · p.687 #17 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


Actually everyone I know who has an M240 has been saying that the RF focusing has been vastly improved, and that hitting focus is easier and more consistent. Might just be new expensive toy syndrome..




Jul 03, 2013 at 06:55 PM
rscheffler
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p.687 #18 · p.687 #18 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


edwardkaraa wrote:
I think I'm done with range finders. Got my 85/2 back from CLA today, wobble is gone, but back focusing has increased. Not blaming Zeiss service or Leica RF calibration, it's just that range finders are not accurate as a system. The lens is already with a local technician for another 10 days

Anyhow, what in your opinion is the best current mirrorless body to use with the ZM glass? The GXR-M is not on the list because it has only 10 mp and is discontinued. How about the Fuji XE-1? Anyone has experience with this camera?


Edward, from my understanding, if there is consistent back focus at all distances, adding a shim to the lens should resolve the problem.

I think a factor working against you is it's a wide aperture telephoto lens compounded by the fact it's a Zeiss on a Leica body. As has been discussed/rumored before, the Zeiss Ikon flange distance was or may have been slightly different from Leica's. When I tried Andrew G's ZM85/2 on my M9 I was very surprised to find it focused accurately. Unfortunately this focus lottery seems to be part of the RF experience, and not saying this to make excuses for it... Of my lens collection right now, most don't focus perfectly on my M9 and each of those needs slight RF tweaks. Mental microfocusadjustment if you will... Curious now whether or not that would be much different with the M240.

rscheffler wrote:
Hey guys, I was going to write up something but then realized with a bag full of 50mm LTM and M mount lenses, might as well just shoot something.

While it's nothing special, hopefully it gives some idea about the various lenses and their renderings. I shot a leafy backlit scene at 1m (images below) and also 1.5m, as well as an open shade scene at 1m.

I've posted images and download links to the full-rez files on my blog: http://www.ronscheffler.com/techtalk/?p=217

Naturally this isn't near to being definitive and lacks a number of current 50mm lenses, such as the various Crons, Summarit,
...Show more
eninety wrote:
i kind of like the bokeh of the CV 50 1.5 vm. it seems less busy. the lux is obviously the best, but the planar just seems a bit harsh. but the color of the zeiss being slightly warmer lends its hand to this particular setting.

adamdewilde wrote:
I honestly find it really depends on the shooting distance. Wide open and close, I don't mind the CV 1.5 at all.. I just feel for an overall walk around lens in various situations, for various reasons the 50/2 planar is where I'd spend my money if I was in the market for a 50 and the 50lux was not an option.

Although in Ron's review shots, there is really nothing wrong with the CV 1.5, in fact if that's all you were using it for (close up, wide open), it's no slouch against the 50lux.


Totally agree with Adam that my images only cover a very narrow usage style for these lenses. What I was going to write up earlier before doing the comparison shots, was it really depends on how the lens is used. I love the ZM50/2 for stuff where I'm not going for so much subject/background separation, like urban/natural landscapes. It has a great snap to it, great micro contrast and is overall very well behaved. The CV50/1.5 at such distances needs to be stopped down a lot for across-frame sharpness, IIRC, and has a gentler rendering. You can add contrast in post but typically it's not possible to introduce the micro contrast inherent in lenses like the Planar. It's not a bad lens, just not as 'technical' a lens like the Lux ASPH.

Ryan, great series with your daughter! The Canon 50/1.5 looks very familiar. From my little shootout, it was pretty obvious the Zeiss-Opton Sonnar and the Nikon 50/1.4, also a Sonnar, are very similar. Therefore I expect the Canon to be much the same. It's a fun kind of lens, but as you pointed out, not technically great for across-frame sharpness, especially at greater distances. Also there's focus shift to deal with...

Joakim - fabulous! Love the first one in particular!

Michael - excellent look from those, particularly the third.

Joe - wow, Nocti looks really nice. I'm losing track now, this is a lens you've had for some time, or new? Yes, f/16! Natural anti aliasing. Roger Cicala at lensrentals has pointed out in a number of his lens tests that f/16 performance is usually about on par with near wide open performance, just the depth of field is much deeper. I've found that at times, shooting with the 21 or 28 on the M9, that f/16 gives just that much more depth of field to help scenes with very deep focus, typically a problem when the subject is fairly close, like 1-1.5m. Some of the diffraction can be offset with sharpening in post. It really depends on what you need out of the shot.

Gary - yes, I agree with you about the Canon. It's quite predictable and easy to use. I was at first kind of 'meh' about it, but it has subtle qualities that, as Joe pointed out, put it somewhere between the vintage Sonnars and the Lux pre-ASPH. Great set!

Kind of losing track of what I have and haven't posted...

One with the Zeiss-Opton 50/1.5 Sonnar:








Jul 03, 2013 at 07:01 PM
Gary Clennan
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p.687 #19 · p.687 #19 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


adamdewilde wrote:
Actually everyone I know who has an M240 has been saying that the RF focusing has been vastly improved, and that hitting focus is easier and more consistent. Might just be new expensive toy syndrome..



My keeper rate has definitely improved....



Jul 03, 2013 at 08:03 PM
muc_marlin
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p.687 #20 · p.687 #20 · Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread


puh, a lot of new posts to catch up with! Hopefully I have time tomorrow afternoon ....

Just a view pics, the weather was terrible today, but I thought at this place it might be even a advantage.
All wide open and handheld, captured with M9P.


























Jul 03, 2013 at 08:13 PM
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