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Archive 2010 · Fastest Flash Synch Speed Canon Cameras

  
 
systemlayers
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Fastest Flash Synch Speed Canon Cameras


Fotopapa should really look at flash diffusion his shots all scream bare ugly flash.
Oh well ! His photos are still very cool indeed.



Jun 12, 2010 at 08:25 PM
schristie11
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Fastest Flash Synch Speed Canon Cameras


I have been pining away for a MP-E 65 and even sold my 100 L IS with that lens in mind for replacing it. I'd also like to get a 180L macro in the future.

systemlayers
Your shots are very good as it is, and I'm not sure why you can use your existing equipment with HS (high speed synch) at 1/500 for clean photos of insect take offs, but I do wish you the best of luck in taming the beast before you.

bsteels
I want to say that I am sorry if I came off as abrasive, it was not intentional at all.
I know that I do sound short with people at times, it's a personal defect.


Here are a couple shots I took with HS and the flash filled my full frame very well.
Unfortunately these were the first times I had tried to do this and my lens was too short and the target was not exactly on the focal plane so the subjects are a little unsharp, the action is however, frozen at 1/1000 and completely illuminated by a 580 EX II wirelessly by a ST-E2 on my 5D and 70-200 F/4 supported by a tripod.

Shutter Speed: 1/1000
http://iqmatters.smugmug.com/Photography/Wildlife/SmallBirds/MG4259/779062109_tpD3j-XL.jpg

http://iqmatters.smugmug.com/Photography/Wildlife/SmallBirds/MG4172/779060205_mvaKJ-L.jpg

http://iqmatters.smugmug.com/Photography/Wildlife/SmallBirds/MG4179/779060579_ed5L2-XL.jpg

http://iqmatters.smugmug.com/Photography/Wildlife/SmallBirds/MG4202/779061007_GVb9b-XL.jpg

See the ball on the right reflecting the light from strobe flash.

Gallery link to my photos so you can see EXIF:
http://iqmatters.smugmug.com/Photography/Wildlife/SmallBirds/11543529_TM3XX#814315373_fruET

Peace,
-Steve

Edited on Jun 12, 2010 at 09:49 PM · View previous versions



Jun 12, 2010 at 09:27 PM
BrianO
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Fastest Flash Synch Speed Canon Cameras


schristie11 wrote:
read the full post I made (above), and become educated on the new technology in cameras, it's only 10 years old. lol


To whom were you addressing this comment? It seems to me that most of the people replying on this thread are quite aware of how HSS works.



Jun 12, 2010 at 09:37 PM
schristie11
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Fastest Flash Synch Speed Canon Cameras


BrianO wrote:
To whom were you addressing this comment? It seems to me that most of the people replying on this thread are quite aware of how HSS works.


Even though many who posted does know a bit, I'm not sure everyone here is seeing eye to eye on this topic of HS and blur.

I was speaking to bsteels.

Please read all of his and my revised posts above.

bsteels re-posted and explained what he meant to say so that it was more informative.

I was responding to some of his comments:

bsteels wrote:
It strobes so you'll get motion blur. High-speed synch is sort of a misnomer.


Someone here was even saying the total shutter time, even during HS takes about 200ms.
But it is much closer to 1/400 and higher on some cameras.
Especially the cameras with digital shutters.

It is easy to not know everything about every camera model.
I hope no one thinks that I believe I'm a know it all, I was just trying to explain from my experiences.

Peace,
-Steve



Jun 12, 2010 at 09:48 PM
BrianO
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Fastest Flash Synch Speed Canon Cameras


schristie11 wrote:
.I was speaking to bsteels.

Please read all of his and my revised posts above.

bsteels re-posted andexplained what he meant to say so that it was more informative.

I was responding to some of his comments:



Well, he's correct.

High Speed "Sync" isn't really synchronizing the flash with the shutter in the manner required for true sync, it simply starts the pulsing of the flash before the shutter opens and stops the pulsing after the shutter closes. No precision sync timing required.

He is also correct that with fast-moving subjects you can get motion blur even with a 1/8000 second shutter speed, because the shutter slit takes longer than 1/8000 second to travel across the sensor plane; it may take anywhere from 1/250 or longer, depending on the camera. Any given sensel will be exposed for 1/8000 or less, but the entire collection of sensels, from top to bottom, will take as long as whatever the camera's highest sync speed is.



Jun 12, 2010 at 10:08 PM
systemlayers
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Fastest Flash Synch Speed Canon Cameras


Beautiful photos schristie11, thanks for posting your setup and explaining your method.
The MP-E 65mm is a lovely lovely lens. I still feel it's overpriced for what it is (a reversed 30mm on bellows basically) but still a more elegant solution than any other manufacturer has come out with for extreme macro.
Still when I compare it to my OM f/2 or 38 2.8 on auto tubes I can't help but feel it's merely a clone/step up from Olympus's 20-30 year old macro line.
I'd love to see them update it/replace it with a 1:2 to 3:1 lens instead as 1:1 can be pretty limiting.

Also diffusion on the twin flash is a constant battle if only canon would release SOME sort of puffer design so us amateurs wouldn't have to strap deoderant caps on our flash heads!



Jun 12, 2010 at 10:08 PM
bsteels
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Fastest Flash Synch Speed Canon Cameras


schristie11 wrote:
bsteels
I want to say that I am sorry if I came off as abrasive, it was not intentional at all.
I know that I do sound short with people at times, it's a personal defect.



No worries Steve. The whole point is to share information and learn from one another here... I am pretty easy going. Not sure how I led you to believe I don't understand HSS though.

For info, I tried a few shots with the MT-24EX and MP-E65 today at 5X mag using high-speed synch at 1/1000. The loss of light was noticeable, and was underexposing by about a stop, and there was no juice left to flash comp up a stop. I tried. I will keep the technique in my back pocket for the times it may be of use. I have perhaps been too closed minded to HSS.

I can say from experience that for things like insects or even water drops HSS will not stop the motion, though. I usually shoot the flashes on manual at 1/32 power or less. It is pretty well accepted among people shooting high speed photos that HSS will not work well. (even the slave pre-flash was causing ghosting for me when i left a flash on master mode)

If it's achieving the results you want then that's super. It won't do what I need. You may find that it becomes a limitation for some high-speed work, but perhaps not.... in any case....

Happy shooting!

Cheers, Brad



Jun 12, 2010 at 10:27 PM
schristie11
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Fastest Flash Synch Speed Canon Cameras


Just for fun, this is one of my favorite HSS photos I took on my 5D last year.
I did have to bump the ISO to 1600 due to the light loss of the HSS and 1/800 shutter speed. The subjects (my kids) were dancing in a circle at full speed, yet frozen here in the frame.

Click to Download Full Size JPG

http://iqmatters.smugmug.com/Kids-Daily/2010/Kids-Daily/IMG1236/749174898_FByBN-XL.jpg

I shot this next one on my 1D II N with HSS turned on but only 1/250 iso 100 and it is a lot cleaner. The kids were jumping in the air, with no feet touching the ground, at time of photo.

Click to Download Full Size JPG

http://iqmatters.smugmug.com/Kids-Daily/2010/Kids-Daily/MG0359/761304744_xUCg8-X2.jpg

These last two were taken at only 1/80 ISO 100 and the flash froze the bubble/water drops perfectly. imho.

Click to Download Full Size JPG

http://iqmatters.smugmug.com/Kids-Daily/2010/Kids-Daily/4A4R1605bbb/792397582_CTrgf-XL.jpg

Click to Download Full Size JPG

http://iqmatters.smugmug.com/Kids-Daily/2010/Kids-Daily/4A4R1604bbb/792397556_WoHnE-XL.jpg



Jun 12, 2010 at 10:42 PM
_evt_
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Fastest Flash Synch Speed Canon Cameras


I would like to capture bug takeoffs with flash and 1/200 is not quite enough for many situations.

1/200 + flash close to subject at it's lowest output should capture the moment.

After reading this post, I tried this out today just to make sure:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4037/4695176208_70fc11de78_b.jpg

Not the greatest, but the bee was taking off and the sync was at 1/200th.

The tough part is getting the bug in the plane of focus and composed well. That takes timing, knowledge of your subject and luck ... unless you're Frans and well, then you have it down to a science



Jun 12, 2010 at 11:28 PM
RogerC11
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Fastest Flash Synch Speed Canon Cameras


shorter the flash duration, the better at stopping action? i thought it was the other way around...


Jun 12, 2010 at 11:38 PM
BrianO
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Fastest Flash Synch Speed Canon Cameras


rogie wrote:
shorter the flash duration, the better at stopping action?


Correct.

rogie wrote:
...i thought it was the other way around...


Nope.

Look at it this way: Imagine a car travelling at 120 km/h.
How far will it travel in 1/1000 second?
Now, how far will it travel in 1/15,000 second (a shorter duration)?

Shorter duration equals shorter distance equals "more stopped."

This is the same reason a faster shutter speed is better at stopping action than a slower shutter speed; at higher speeds the subject moves a shorter distance during the time the shutter is open.



Jun 13, 2010 at 04:20 AM
schristie11
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Fastest Flash Synch Speed Canon Cameras


http://iqmatters.smugmug.com/Photography/Gear/Technical/speed-guide/748794547_n6bqY-X3-1.png

This is a nice but old guide I used for film.
These are the Minimum shutter speeds recomended when shooting in "Sunny 16" light, which a flash strobe or modeling lamp should mimic.



Jun 13, 2010 at 07:44 AM
RogerC11
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Fastest Flash Synch Speed Canon Cameras


BrianO wrote:
Correct.

Nope.

Look at it this way: Imagine a car travelling at 120 km/h.
How far will it travel in 1/1000 second?
Now, how far will it travel in 1/15,000 second (a shorter duration)?

Shorter duration equals shorter distance equals "more stopped."

This is the same reason a faster shutter speed is better at stopping action than a slower shutter speed; at higher speeds the subject moves a shorter distance during the time the shutter is open.

thanks for clearing that up, Brian. makes sense now



Jun 13, 2010 at 08:13 AM
BrianO
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Fastest Flash Synch Speed Canon Cameras


rogie wrote:
thanks for clearing that up, Brian. makes sense now


You're welcome.

If you don't already have it, Understanding Exposure is a great guide to how aperture, shutter speed, and ISO setting work together, and the sequel, Understanding Shutter Speed, really goes into depth with regard to action stopping and motion blur (which is sometimes a viable creative choice).

http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Exposure-Photographs-Digital-Updated/dp/0817463003

http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Shutter-Speed-Low-Light-Photography/dp/0817463011



Jun 13, 2010 at 11:08 PM
molson
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Fastest Flash Synch Speed Canon Cameras


schristie11 wrote:
read the full post I made (above), and become educated on the new technology in cameras, it's only 10 years old. lol




This technology has been around for 24 years (since the Olympus OM-4T in 1986...)



Jun 14, 2010 at 07:57 AM
BrianO
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Fastest Flash Synch Speed Canon Cameras


schristie11 wrote:
..."Sunny 16" light, which a flash strobe or modeling lamp should mimic.


If the modeling light on my strobe was as bright as the sun, why would I need the strobe? I could just use the modeling lamp.



Jun 15, 2010 at 01:15 AM
schristie11
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Fastest Flash Synch Speed Canon Cameras


BrianO wrote:
If the modeling light on my strobe was as bright as the sun, why would I need the strobe? I could just use the modeling lamp.


I think you misunderstand what I meant.

I was speaking of an AC modeling lamp or an AC flash strobe, they are two different things. I was not speaking of a AA battery powered hot shoe flash.

There are modeling lamps on some strobes but they are an exception to what I was speaking of.

A 150 - 400 watt AC monolight that stays on all the time is pretty darn bright, esp to your camera.

The modeling light on most strobe flashes is set to 1/16 or 1/32 power of the full power flash output.

A flash has the potential of creating similar amounts of light for 1/1500 of a second, but depending on your camera's exposure settings and distance to subject your results may vary.




Jun 15, 2010 at 02:03 AM
amorfoto
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Fastest Flash Synch Speed Canon Cameras


PW Flex TT5 = 1/8000 sync speed "seriously"


Jun 15, 2010 at 06:34 AM
Roland W
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Fastest Flash Synch Speed Canon Cameras


Lets get the numbers a little closer to typical. Typical strobe maximum power is 1200 Watt Seconds. Typical modeling light is 400 Watts. Sync speed for full frame camera is usually 1/250th of a second. Typical energy transfer of a 1200 Watt Second strobe into a 1/250th exposure gives an effective power of about 600 Watt Seconds.

The 400 Watt modeling light is thus about equal to a 1.60 Watt Second strobe (400 Watts times 1/250th of a second equals 1.6). So the modeling light is 1/375th of the power of the strobe, which is about 8.5 stops different. That is a big difference. An alternate view is that you would need a modeling light of about 75,000 Watts to get the same exposure that you can get from the strobe at 1/250th of a second. Try modeling in front of a 75,000 Watt light from about 8 feet away and see how long you last.

If you go through the measurements from a real strobe with a light meter, you get results fairly similar to the above theoretical numbers.

With my 600 Watt Second portable strobe, and with a some what lossy modifier mounted on it, I can overpower the full mid day sun at a lighting distance that has me covering a model standing, and working at 1/250th of a second exposure. The sun becomes my background light and often my hair light, and my strobe is my main light, and then another strobe or even a portable flash is my fill light. It is a whole new world of where and what and when you can shoot when you can overpower the sun.



Jun 15, 2010 at 08:53 AM
Brent Ward
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Fastest Flash Synch Speed Canon Cameras


schristie11 wrote:
I think you misunderstand what I meant.

I was speaking of an AC modeling lamp or an AC flash strobe, they are two different things. I was not speaking of a AA battery powered hot shoe flash.

There are modeling lamps on some strobes but they are an exception to what I was speaking of.

A 150 - 400 watt AC monolight that stays on all the time is pretty darn bright, esp to your camera.

The modeling light on most strobe flashes is set to 1/16 or 1/32 power of the full power flash output.

A flash has the potential of creating similar amounts
...Show more

Would love to see some examples of hi-speed photography lit by a strobes modeling light.



Jun 15, 2010 at 10:03 AM
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