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Archive 2010 · Canon 580 EXII issue

  
 
BubbaJon
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Canon 580 EXII issue


Posted this on teh Canon forum but no takers. My 580 EXII has started acting up. Essentially the flash goes off but the exposure looks like no flash at all. My conclusion is that the sync is way the hell off. I put a 580 EX on and all is well eliminating the camera to my mind. The flash does the same on both my 5D and 5D MkII. Any ideas? I've never had an issue where the flash goes off and acts normal yet the exposure is not there. I bumped the exposure comp to +3 and was literally blasting away and - dark exposures! I varied the shutter speed from 1/30 to 1/160 - no change. I used the speedlight menu on the MKII to reset the speedlight - nada.
WTF?



May 30, 2010 at 11:08 PM
BrianO
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Canon 580 EXII issue


First thing to check: is the flash in Normal, Slave, or Master mode? If it got turned to Master or Slave by accident, that could do it.

There have been reports of some EX IIs not seating firmly into the hot shoe, and thus the pins don't line up. It's caused by the weather sealing on the flash foot. Try wiggling the flash into the shoe more firmly than you normally would, or using a PC cord or OC-E3 cable. If that fixes it, there are instructions somewhere on the Web for how to trim the rubber gasket so it doesn't require so much pressure to get it seated fully.

HTH.

Edited on Jun 01, 2010 at 08:54 PM · View previous versions



May 31, 2010 at 01:35 AM
cgardner
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Canon 580 EXII issue


The contact related problem usually results in the 580exII thinking its been told to change to legacy film body mode (TTL) and firing at full power because it never gets a command to turn off: net result, gross overexposure. Not what seems to be happening here.

The normal sequence of events in ETTL mode is for the camera to fire several command and exposure metering pre-flashes between the time the shutter is fully pressed and the mirror and shutter open. You say increasing FEC results in the flash "blasting away" which seems to imply the main flash is firing, but If you can see the flash in the viewfinder its the pre-flash you are seeing, not the main flash.

The first step would be to carefully review all the flash menu settings (reset to defaults) and check the flash for sticking contact pins, particularly the one that is centered which is used to transmit the "fire main flash" command.

If flash menus are set to defaults and the pins retracting and extending correctly it may be a circuit board problem. That's the second most common complaint with the 580exII I've seen mentioned in the forums.

The worst case, sending the flash in for repair, isn't too painful. Canon fixes them for a flat rate of about $130, less if you are a CPS member. Since defects in the 580exII are so common if you complain a bit they might fix it for free if out of warranty.



May 31, 2010 at 07:20 AM
BubbaJon
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Canon 580 EXII issue


Thanks all - I apologize for leaving off a crucial piece of info. I attached teh flash to my 5DMkII and used the speedlight menu to clear and reset the flash so it's starting at a known base. So to my mind that would eliminate pin problems since it knows what its talking to - it would show the flash is incapable of ETTL communication and displays such on the menu.
Chuck - the flash I refer to is simply my open eye seeing that the flash is blasting away - the viewfinder is as expected - blank while the shutter is open. This isn't a wimpy preflash - this is full power.
I also checked again this morning and indeed my 580 EX works fine either in normal or master mode (it was suggested that master mode affected exposure - I suspect that that article didn't have a clue how the flash worked).
For the record even though I would not claim to be a guru like Chuck I have in fact used the flashes in normal, master-slave using ratios, A:B and A:B:C, and using the flash as a controller with the output off. My first suspicion was I had left it in ratio with the master not firing but no cigar.
Sure hope y'all can help - I'd rather not spend $130 if I don't have to....



May 31, 2010 at 07:56 AM
cgardner
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Canon 580 EXII issue


The fact you do know how to use the equipment makes it even more likely the problem is due to a fault in the flash, not operator error. Like most electronics when it doesn't work, its probably broken.

I'd start by taking the camera menu control out of the equation. Reset the controls on the flash and test it on your 5D which doesn't have camera flash menus to add a variable. You might also try 2nd curtain sync in a dark room with a long shutter speed. That will allow you to see the pre- and main flashes separately.

You might also try M mode and see what the results are. In solo (wireless off) there are no pre-flashes. In Master mode there are still command pre-flashes but no metering pre-flashes.



May 31, 2010 at 08:21 AM
BubbaJon
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Canon 580 EXII issue


cgardner wrote:
The fact you do know how to use the equipment makes it even more likely the problem is due to a fault in the flash, not operator error. Like most electronics when it doesn't work, its probably broken.

I'd start by taking the camera menu control out of the equation. Reset the controls on the flash and test it on your 5D which doesn't have camera flash menus to add a variable. You might also try 2nd curtain sync in a dark room with a long shutter speed. That will allow you to see the pre- and main flashes separately.

You
...Show more
Manual works. Normal, Master do not. In Master mode I can in fact see the preflashes in the viewfinder but the exposure is dark. This tells me that the camera successfully evaluated the preflashes but either the sync is off or the main firing isn't happening. It is hard to see both the pre and main go off. I tried your idea using 2nd shutter - the pre flash goes off but no flash on the shutter close. This happens on both cameras 5D and MkII and also using my old 580 EX flash which I thought worked properly. That's weird - I would expect that the flash should go off on the second curtain. I have used the MkII menu to reset the strobe... weird... So I dragged out my old 420EX and it works as expected - a pre and a 2nd curtain Chuck - help me understand! I'm sure I'm gonna come out of this knowing more.



May 31, 2010 at 08:51 AM
cgardner
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Canon 580 EXII issue


FYI - Just to clarify: second curtain only works with a single flash with wireless off. You can't even set it on the flash when its in Master mode.

One thing that comes to mind as a likely culprit is a loose connection to the center pin inside the base of the flash which would cause the symptoms you are describing. For some reason the camera is sending but the flash isn't getting the signal via the center pin that the shutter is open and its time to fire the main flash. So you might want to remove the base and check the wiring between the pins on the base and the main body of the flash.



May 31, 2010 at 09:16 AM
Beni
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Canon 580 EXII issue


When set to master are you sure the master itself is set to fire? That bwould cause exactly what you are describing.


May 31, 2010 at 10:04 AM
BubbaJon
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Canon 580 EXII issue


Beni wrote:
When set to master are you sure the master itself is set to fire? That bwould cause exactly what you are describing.

Yes, I know. It is active.

Chuck - I'll take the base off and test the connections - will post when (if) I find anything....



May 31, 2010 at 10:20 AM
BubbaJon
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Canon 580 EXII issue


Well I pulled the shoe off and completely disassembled and checked all screws and such. Ohmed out the wires from the bottom pins to the connector and they are all good. So I have to assume it's not that. Something of interest possibly - when I do the test pop it seems full-power. I can also hook it up to my Pocketwizard Flex TT5 and when it is tested on that system it should be a very slight flash but instead I'm getting what appears to be a full-power pop. Weird. The speedlight menu on my 5D MkII works in talking to teh flash. I guess I'll have to spend the $$ and send it in to Canon. *sigh*


May 31, 2010 at 11:30 PM
cgardner
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Canon 580 EXII issue


Sad to say the 580exII is the most unreliable unit Canon has ever created. They took a good flash, the 580ex, and added a lot things which have more marketing than practical value.

The only complaint you'd read about the 580ex was driving it to the point the flash tube burned out and the housing melted if using an external battery pack. The 580exII has contact / camera menu related problems (the loose contracts caused by the weather seal make the flash think the camera is telling to to use TTL film mode) and circuit board problems. Some 580exII have visited Canon service more than once.

I'm holding out hope the next new model will be better. Meanwhile, unless one has a compelling need to make random full power exposures in the rain I suggest finding a used 580ex instead of buying a new 580exII.



Jun 01, 2010 at 08:49 AM
BrianO
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Canon 580 EXII issue


cgardner wrote:
...unless one has a compelling need to make random full power exposures in the rain...





Jun 01, 2010 at 06:05 PM
BubbaJon
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Canon 580 EXII issue


Thanks Chuck - it's operated fine since I've owned it - just strange how out of the blue it craps out. I do in fact have a 580 EX I still use - unfortunately I modified it for an external sync jack and buggered the master-slave switch. I had to fix it where it's permanently "normal" - not master or slave. Fortunately that works perfect with my new Pocketwizard FlexTT5's.
I'm considering sending the unit to Precision Camera as they claim to be an authorized Canon repair and they have a flat $120 repair charge. Anyone ever use them?



Jun 02, 2010 at 09:32 AM
BillyBuff
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Canon 580 EXII issue


Wow, seems like there's a lot of 580EX IIs that are having the same problem. Mine exhibited the same problem (I posted a thread on this but it's probably buried now).

My ETTL stopped working. In Manual flash mode, it pumped out full power even when I cranked it down to 1/64 power and ISO 50 @ f/11 in a dimly lit room. It actually overblown everything.

Sent it in to Canon and this was their explanation:

"Your product has been examined and it was found that the part was broken causing the flash to operate improperly. The battery case & cover assembly, flash head assembly were replaced and product functions were confirmed. Checked flash sync & cleaned factory specs."



Jun 02, 2010 at 04:52 PM
BubbaJon
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Canon 580 EXII issue


BillyBuff wrote:
Wow, seems like there's a lot of 580EX IIs that are having the same problem. Mine exhibited the same problem (I posted a thread on this but it's probably buried now).

My ETTL stopped working. In Manual flash mode, it pumped out full power even when I cranked it down to 1/64 power and ISO 50 @ f/11 in a dimly lit room. It actually overblown everything.

Sent it in to Canon and this was their explanation:

"Your product has been examined and it was found that the part was broken causing the flash to operate improperly. The battery case & cover assembly,
...Show more
Great.... wel made teh decision that to do nothing was to have a $500 junk item - not even a good paperweight/doorstop. The one-size-fits-all price of $120 isn't too bad but I gave 'em an earful on the quality. Chuck is right - I have a pair of 580EX's and a 420EX that have performed flawlessly for years - a couple of times in the drizzle at a night game. I've had one 580 that got smokin hot while banging on it with a Turbo battery pack. Still works fine. This new flash has been sorta iffy from day one. In retrospect I should have sent it in but that's just such a PITA - and I've had a couple of incidents where Canon repair sends stuff back so quick you *know* they didn't look at it. And of course it still had the problem so pay again to have it shipped back.
Sorry - just realized I was ranting. I'll post their excuse when I get mine back.



Jun 02, 2010 at 07:34 PM





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