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Leica R Series Lenses
  
 
carstenw
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p.309 #1 · p.309 #1 · Leica R Series Lenses


Samuli Vahonen wrote:
EDIT: Oh, crap, checked MTF - stupid fault, should have checked before purchasing...can't understand how Leica puts their name to this kind of lenses...

so this behavior is as expected, clearly field curvature is extreme in corners.

EDIT2: And these are Leica calculated MTFs, not comparable to Zeiss style, which are based to real measurements. So real performance is worse than these MTFs make it look like.


I had this lens some years ago and had the same reaction that you did. Somehow no matter what I did I couldn't make photos I liked. The flaws of the lens just worked against what I tried to do. I see that others like it and make nice shots with it, but it wasn't for me. The 35 Lux-R is much better, but also bigger and heavier, and I am not sure it is a good landscaping lens, but it has great mood.



May 08, 2014 at 06:27 AM
Worldinlens
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p.309 #2 · p.309 #2 · Leica R Series Lenses


Ahhh, Carsten Carsten...







May 08, 2014 at 06:55 AM
JaKo
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p.309 #3 · p.309 #3 · Leica R Series Lenses


Per Puts on Summicron-R 35:

The first version of the [Summicron-R] 2.0/35 had a length of 61mm and was specifically designed for the photo-reportage. Contrast in the center of the image was quite high, but dropped significantly in the outer zones. In those days, the SLR was used for every photographic assignment and also for the reportage style of photography. For this type of photography the outer zones are of less importance for the impact of the image. The second and current version of the Summicron-R 35mm f/2 features a more even performance at full stop and a significantly improved handling.



May 08, 2014 at 06:59 AM
Lieutenant Z
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p.309 #4 · p.309 #4 · Leica R Series Lenses


50 R Cron :









May 08, 2014 at 04:24 PM
Samuli Vahonen
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p.309 #5 · p.309 #5 · Leica R Series Lenses


JaKo wrote:
Anyhow, to paraphrase, love your Summicron-R 35/2 for its (optical) flows, not its virtues.

I have different lens selection criteria - as much as possible character, as long as optical flaws won't ruin it.

JaKo wrote:
See sharp portion of left side chair? And I love it!

Sorry no go - for this kind of child's play urban boke field curvature doesn't matter much. The most urban and smooth I shoot is cemetery, and that is only for test shots. This steep field curvature really ruins anything good lens provides, unless shoot in square format.

Also in this shot I find the stuff in focus, what shouldn't be, distracting - not pleasing.

Samuli



May 08, 2014 at 05:51 PM
JonPB
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p.309 #6 · p.309 #6 · Leica R Series Lenses


I like Jack's shot of the chairs. The field curvature works really well there. But then, I'd say Jack's photography is along the lines of editorial portraiture of the urban environment, where there's a lot of foreground-background interaction and bringing a few bits of the background into focus adds pop and story to the photo. On the other hand, Sumuli's photography leans heavily on a predictable focal plane (and the blur in front of and behind it) to add depth and emphasize single points of interest from the complex repetition of the forest. That effect is ruined by this field curvature. In other words, the character of the lens lends itself to Jack's work but detracts from Samuli's.

And isn't learning about this gear, where it works best and where it becomes a liability, a wonderful feature of this forum?

Cheers,
Jon




May 08, 2014 at 06:32 PM
Jon Tainton
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p.309 #7 · p.309 #7 · Leica R Series Lenses


Samuli Vahonen wrote:
EDIT: Oh, crap, checked MTF - stupid fault, should have checked before purchasing...can't understand how Leica puts their name to this kind of lenses...

EDIT2: And these are Leica calculated MTFs, not comparable to Zeiss style, which are based to real measurements. So real performance is worse than these MTFs make it look like.

Samuli


Samuli, for future reference check the photodo lens review site, there are MTF charts for some of the older Leica R's.

The 35/2 does appear to be a 'look' lens, so you might want to look at the 35/2.8 instead, MTF is here http://www.photodo.com/lens/Leica-ElmaritR-35mm-f28-937/images

FWIW when researching which alt lens system to invest in, for my needs, I do recollect that some of the photodo MTF test charts correlated favourably with Leica's own MTF charts. Which is something of a relief, seeing what I could have unwisely invested in, if I relied on manufacturers charts only ....



May 08, 2014 at 06:52 PM
Samuli Vahonen
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p.309 #8 · p.309 #8 · Leica R Series Lenses


JonPB wrote:
I like Jack's shot of the chairs. The field curvature works really well there. But then, I'd say Jack's photography is along the lines of editorial portraiture of the urban environment, where there's a lot of foreground-background interaction and bringing a few bits of the background into focus adds pop and story to the photo. On the other hand, Sumuli's photography leans heavily on a predictable focal plane (and the blur in front of and behind it) to add depth and emphasize single points of interest from the complex repetition of the forest. That effect is ruined by this field
...Show more
Pretty good analysis. Haven't been thinking it this way, but this kind of explains why I have no issues with field curvature, which happen over the whole image, not with sudden changes. For example I haven't had much issues with Zeiss ZE/ZF series 28mm lens, but many people really hate the lens for field curvature. On other hand I almost puke when I see photos from Zeiss ZE/ZF series makro-planar 50mm, which has similar disgusting field curvature as Summilux-R 35mm v2, which hits suddenly in corners.

JonPB wrote:
And isn't learning about this gear, where it works best and where it becomes a liability, a wonderful feature of this forum?

+1000

Jon Tainton wrote:
The 35/2 does appear to be a 'look' lens, so you might want to look at the 35/2.8 instead, MTF is here http://www.photodo.com/lens/Leica-ElmaritR-35mm-f28-937/images

Hmmm, I'm not so sure about Elmarit-R 35mm. I was looking for lens to pair with similar character as Elmarit-R 90mm, as Summicron-R 50 has completely different in rendering style. Looking Elmarit-R 35mm photodo-MTFs I think that the tangential and sagittal curves separate too much too early. Also I was hoping for faster than f/2.8, as lenses usually need to be closed down a little, and then DOF is so gigantic in wide-angles with slow maximum aperture of f/2.8. Of course übergood (like Elmarit-R 28mm v2) make exception, as they can be shoot wide open.

As I got lucky and found cheap Elmarit-R 28mm v2, just few days after ordered Summicron-R 35, I think I'm all good now with my Leica R-family:
- 2.8/28 v2
- 2.8/90 E55
- 2.8/180 APO (1st version)
Just having slightly larger "gap" between 90mm and 28mm as I would prefer to have. At some point I want to try the M-series Summicron-M 50mm, if it would be little smoother than it's R-brother. I would assume Leica M and R share similar color rendering.

Samuli



May 08, 2014 at 07:31 PM
JaKo
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p.309 #9 · p.309 #9 · Leica R Series Lenses


JonPB wrote:
I like Jack's shot of the chairs. The field curvature works really well there. But then, I'd say Jack's photography is along the lines of editorial portraiture of the urban environment, where there's a lot of foreground-background interaction and bringing a few bits of the background into focus adds pop and story to the photo. On the other hand, Sumuli's photography leans heavily on a predictable focal plane (and the blur in front of and behind it) to add depth and emphasize single points of interest from the complex repetition of the forest. That effect is ruined by this field
...Show more

Thank you Jon
Everyone here has given rights to like, dislike and, evidently, to have different level of tolerance for others work and subjects.
Your responses above just saved me posting a regrettable reply.

Edit: FM is a friendly place and members like myself and Samuli always manage to find a common ground.



May 08, 2014 at 08:05 PM
Jon Tainton
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p.309 #10 · p.309 #10 · Leica R Series Lenses


Samuli, I'll suggest the 60/2.8 macro to fill the gap between the the Elmarit 28 and 90.


Back on topic, primes were the order of the day on this trip, as I'd fallen into bad old ways with zooms and needed to recalibrate my technique.





60 Macro Elmarit







100 Apo Macro Elmarit




May 08, 2014 at 08:32 PM
 

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zygibajt
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p.309 #11 · p.309 #11 · Leica R Series Lenses


Funny I have just noticed this on my Summicron 35/2 3 weeks ago when put on Canon 1Ds MKI and now this topic pops up here. I have had the lens for 1,5 year and never noticed this on my 5D MKI I was mostly using it, I have to double check on 5D in same scenerio.




May 08, 2014 at 09:34 PM
VINCET
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p.309 #12 · p.309 #12 · Leica R Series Lenses


Taken with a Sony A7r and the Leica 60mm Macro Elmarit










May 08, 2014 at 09:45 PM
Alpha_Geist
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p.309 #13 · p.309 #13 · Leica R Series Lenses


I'm tempted to sell my ZE Makro-Planar 50mm for the 60mm Macro Elmarit! Should I...I dunno, I'm on the fence.


I have the E55 35mm Cron-R and haven't noticed (or paid attention) to the FC of that lens...and now you have to pee in my cereal!!!

I use to shoot landscapes years ago, and the 35 Cron-R might have put me off if I knew then what I just learned a page ago, but I've been doing a lot of family portraiture and flower shots which the FC of the 35mm Cron-R wouldn't be a factor in buying/keeping the lens. From Putts narrative, it seems like the photo journalistic nature of the lens suits my style.

Besides, I can always fall back on my 35-70mm Vario-Elmar f/4 for some landscape fun when (or if!) needed.




May 09, 2014 at 03:27 AM
Alpha_Geist
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p.309 #14 · p.309 #14 · Leica R Series Lenses


Samuli Vahonen wrote:
...

As I got lucky and found cheap Elmarit-R 28mm v2, just few days after ordered Summicron-R 35, I think I'm all good now with my Leica R-family:
- 2.8/28 v2
- 2.8/90 E55
- 2.8/180 APO (1st version)
Just having slightly larger "gap" between 90mm and 28mm as I would prefer to have. At some point I want to try the M-series Summicron-M 50mm, if it would be little smoother than it's R-brother. I would assume Leica M and R share similar color rendering.

Samuli


Samuli, if I were to look into the 180/2.8 APO, which version should I be looking at/for? As you mentioned the 1st version, is there something that makes it stand out over the succeeding version(s)?



May 09, 2014 at 05:01 AM
Almass
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p.309 #15 · p.309 #15 · Leica R Series Lenses


Just a small note on Leica R lenses.

Not ALL Leica R lenses are stellar and many are plain standard.

Following are the stellar Leica R (primes only and not including Modules and Zooms).

Clasified in focal lens order:

- 15mm f/2.8 Super-Elmarit-R ASPH
- 28mm f/2.8 Elmarit-R II
- 50mm f/1.4 Summilux-R II (E60)
- 80mm f/1.4 Summilux-R
- 90mm f/2 APO-Summicron-R ASPH
- 100mm f/2.8 APO-Macro-Elmarit-R
- 180mm f/2.8 Elmarit-R
- 280mm f/4 APO-Telyt-R

The 35mm f/1.4 Summilux-R - 180mm f/2 APO-Summicron-R have been superceded by other brands.

Edited on May 09, 2014 at 10:49 AM · View previous versions



May 09, 2014 at 08:14 AM
telyt
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p.309 #16 · p.309 #16 · Leica R Series Lenses


Almass wrote:
Just a small note on Leica R lenses.

Not ALL Leica R lenses are stellar and many are plain standard.

Following are the stellar Leica R (primes only and not including Modules and Zooms).

Clasified in focal lens order:

- 15mm f/2.8 Super-Elmarit-R ASPH
- 28mm f/2.8 Elmarit-R II
- 50mm f/1.4 Summilux-R II
- 80mm f/1.4 Summilux-R
- 90mm f/2 APO-Summicron-R ASPH
- 100mm f/2.8 APO-Macro-Elmarit-R
- 180mm f/2.8 Elmarit-R
- 280mm f/4 APO-Telyt-R

The 35mm f/1.4 Summilux-R - 180mm f/2 APO-Summicron-R have been superceded by other brands.


I believe the 50mm Summilux-R you refer to is the E60 version, which is optically distinct from the Series VII and E55 versions. Some might be confused by calling this lens version II, because the first optical version was made with two different barrels.



May 09, 2014 at 09:28 AM
Almass
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p.309 #17 · p.309 #17 · Leica R Series Lenses


Doug, yes you are right. I added the E60 reference.


May 09, 2014 at 10:50 AM
kape06111
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p.309 #18 · p.309 #18 · Leica R Series Lenses


Almass wrote:
Just a small note on Leica R lenses.

Not ALL Leica R lenses are stellar and many are plain standard.

Following are the stellar Leica R (primes only and not including Modules and Zooms).

Clasified in focal lens order:

- 15mm f/2.8 Super-Elmarit-R ASPH
- 28mm f/2.8 Elmarit-R II
- 50mm f/1.4 Summilux-R II (E60)
- 80mm f/1.4 Summilux-R
- 90mm f/2 APO-Summicron-R ASPH
- 100mm f/2.8 APO-Macro-Elmarit-R
- 180mm f/2.8 Elmarit-R
- 280mm f/4 APO-Telyt-R

The 35mm f/1.4 Summilux-R - 180mm f/2 APO-Summicron-R have been superceded by other brands.


Agree, but you are missing the 60 macro, which i found to be also very very good.



May 09, 2014 at 11:14 AM
Samuli Vahonen
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p.309 #19 · p.309 #19 · Leica R Series Lenses


Alpha_Geist wrote:
Samuli, if I were to look into the 180/2.8 APO, which version should I be looking at/for? As you mentioned the 1st version, is there something that makes it stand out over the succeeding version(s)?

Get v2, v1 has annoying "broken ninjastar boke" @ f/4 = why I shoot either wide open or f/8.

Samuli



May 09, 2014 at 11:33 AM
rirakuma
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p.309 #20 · p.309 #20 · Leica R Series Lenses


I just want to thank Aleksandr (worldinlens) for getting me into Leica lenses. He was my earliest inspiration to get in touch with colour photography. Its been years since we have spoken but I am very grateful for his help during my start in photography.

90 cron R




May 09, 2014 at 12:55 PM
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